Unalienable Rights for the Transgender??

Well I learned a valuable lesson a few days back which is never make a lucid comment on the blog of anyone that self describes as a progressive, feminist, and an anarchist with a partner that can not even accurately describe what the transgender are.

Inalienable Rights

These two are confused about unalienable rights which are also termed inalienable

Natural rights are rights not contingent upon the laws, customs, or beliefs of any particular culture or government, and therefore universal and inalienable. In contrast, legal rights are those bestowed onto a person by the law of a particular political and legal system, and therefore relative to specific cultures and governments.

There has been some movement to attempt to link human rights with unalienable rights but without question the concepts discussed below are not about unalienable rights.  In general Natural Rights are considered beyond the authority of any government or international body to dismiss. 

My personal positions

I need to make my positions public although most that have read this blog even once in a while should know them by now.

1. I am pro choice
2. I am pro gay marriage and have been since day one.
3. I am opposed to transsexual being included under the transgender umbrella.
4. I am opposed to anyone with male genitalia being allowed in women's spaces other than bathrooms which will work themselves out.
5. I am opposed to redefining female to include individuals with a penis.
6. I am 100% for equal Rights for Woman and that includes our right to protect our spaces.
7. I am a left of center Democrat. Socially liberal bit fiscally somewhat conservative.
8. I am opposed to any trans bill unless it uses transsexual. 
9. I am opposed to the Transgender Borg.
10. I am opposed to the death penalty. 
11. I am opposed to any form of racism.
12. I am opposed to any form of communism.  It does not work.
13. I am a liberal at heart.

The Confrontation

The following are snippets from comments made on a certain blog towards me. I cannot respond there so I will do it here. The following were pulled from the comment section and I will provide the link to the blog so the entire scenario is an open book.

Here goes.

Since transvestites have other identities. Since they usually spend most of their lives as (usually) MEN — there is no need to include transvestites, in any way, as “transgender”.

“I never realized the transvestites were not part of the transgender crowd. When did xxxx kick them out?”

My point is that transvestites already have protections. They are (usually) men. There is no way their part time “gender identity” (a concept I do not believe in – since “gender” is a “social construct”, pure and simple.) will be protected. What I think might well be protected is their right to BE transvestites. That DOES NOT MEAN they will be George on Monday and Gladys on Tuesday. Their right to do damn well what they please on their own time will be protected.

One would think that a person who describes themselves as fighting the Transgender Borg would actually have a clue that the transgender are primarily transvestites because if they were not they would be kind of inconsequential. I have actually never said what they do on their own time is their business but that protection does not infringe on the rights of women.

Your personal opinion are what I find repulsive about you. I find the denigration of an entire class of people dehumanizing, just as I find racism and antisemitism among other things repulsive.

When you parrot the same shit I hear from Focus on the Family, Tony Perkins, Pete LaBarbera and the rest of the right wing bigots who wrap themselves in the flag and carry Bibles, then one can only assume you embrace the values of those bigots.

Lastly. You came here to voice you bigoted views. I did not come to your blog to bring my views to you.

This was my comment that so enraged them both. I do not believe my views are bigoted but I guess they do but if you write a blog and allow comments are you not inviting comments that oppose your views? I guess in mythic Communist paradise they live in unless the fearless leaders allow it, them, then dissent is not allowed and if you do dissent you qualify as a bigot. Oh I bet they wish their idols Stalin and Mao ran the blog world for I would surely be off to an internment camp for improper thoughts.

elizabeth1945 Says: 04/24/2012 at 3:13 pm

Wow! Using the race card in defending the right of the transgendered of the world to pee, shower, and undress in any facility they feel they identify as on that particular day and claiming it is not a threat to women. Big difference.

What women of color faced was racism based on color of skin which is relatively obvious and it was evil. The bathroom or facility issue is far more complex and does potentially present a potential danger to women and anyone that is blind to that has their head up their ass. Simply put, men do not have the right to equal access to female facilities unless they have changed sex and are anatomically correct.

Bathrooms have always worked themselves out. In 99.99% of the cases nobody has an issue if a trans person uses a female bathroom but to deny women the right to deny access to someone they feel threatened by with laws that prevent women from even asking a question is not an inalienable right for men it is removal of an inalienable right from women.

Funny how men seem to like to take rights from women and never give anything in return. Women are to blame for the whole problem. Sure we are.

Okay, I am looking for the bigotry. I guess it must be the part about not allowing the transgendered of the world into female spaces because these two seem to have redefined in their own minds what the transgender actually consists of. I guess I need to be re-educated by the intellectually superior commie dipshits of the world.

The following is a little contradiction by one of the confused ideologues.

As far as the rights of heterosexual transvestites — they are men. They earn their living as men. They usually walk through the world as men. They are protected by male privilege. The only time they might be vulnerable is when they are “en femme” — they deserve protection — at the same time, those protections do not negate the rights of WOMEN, natal or post-transsexual.

If we, you, I say the current direction of transgender rights impinges on the rights of women — then perhaps it’s time to suggest alternatives. Just damning all folks who are “transgender”, because you fear how transvestites just MIGHT act, maybe perhaps, who knows, is like throwing out babies, bathwater, pot, and table.

Well I guess she told me or did she? But isn't she now saying transvestites are part of the transgender? Personally I would never associate a baby with a transvestite and nobody said anything about throwing them away. The key is they do not belong in female spaces and it is that simple.

The next one is beyond belief.

Of course, forcing people who could have been allies in other campaigns underground, dehumanizing them, will only make them more radical, more militant.

Okay these people might be our allies. NOT!!!!! I do not feel any further explanation is required.

Using the bathroom red herring… How Phyllis Schlafly, how “radical feminist”, how irrelevant… What a crock… Perhaps we shouldn’t let Jews into the country clubs either after all we know how they abuse Christian Infants and all…

I’m not part of the HBS bigot mob.

It goes against how I was raised, it goes against my progressive yankee values.

Well you brought it up in your post dipshit and no it does not equate to Jews in a Country Club and how appropriate the a militant atheist would bring religion into it. Getting desperate I guess. Funny, I grew up in Yankee country and I have never met a Yankee of any sorts that has "your" asinine look at the world considering Yankee Values are not anything like your values.

Just for your edification I am not part of the HBS mob and describing them as a mob is akin to describing 3 as a crowd.

Gee Elizabeth does this mean you used the men’s room when you were pre-op. I certainly didn’t, hell I used the women’s room when I had to pee while on my day long trips across the bay to SF for my pre-hormone interview and to get my first months supply of hormones.
But I guess we were different or at least you were because I’m a progressive old hippie woman and you.. Well you are special…

Actually I am far from special. I am just an ordinary woman that made her life as a woman and lived her life as a woman never looking for anything "special" because after all just being as I should have been was good enough for me. I realize that is something neither you nor your partner have a clue about and I would recommend it but both of your lives have long since been wasted on nothing.

This is not about pre-op transsexuals but if you would like we can make it that. I always used the ladies room because I passed as I believe you did also although you t-shirt with "trans" on it might not have helped at times. Like I said bathrooms have always worked themselves out and will going forward. I had my letter from Harry as I am sure you also did. Never had to use it. I have always been open to something that would help pre-op transsexuals but "transgender rights" and "gender identity" politics are not the ticket in my opinion.

But I still don’t buy the vilification of TGs and the way it resembles any other form of bigotry or the denial of equal rights.

I don’t buy the Phyllis Schlafly/Cathy Brenna bullshit.

In the end most of that crap comes off just like KKK/Aryan Nation or Protocols of the Elders of Zion and I don’t like the bigotry.

I actually had no idea who Schlafly and Brennan were because I am not into feminist politics nor radical lesbian feminist politics. It is amazing how the poor transgender have now become equated to the targets of the KKK/Aryan Nation and this is typical of the elitist left wing dipshits of today. Throw out as much invalid shit based on hate groups and hope some of it sticks. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion was a hoax so what relevance is that?

But beyond that — How often have any of you post-ops, who actually used the ladies room while pre-op, laid in wait for some unsuspecting natal-born-woman? How often did you seriously CONTEMPLATE rape?

NOT ONCE you say? Well gee-whiz, why do you think the pre-ops of today are less ethical, less committed, less identified as women, than you were/are?

Why do you bring up BATHROOMS when attempting to discuss a wide range of issues that include every aspect of human rights? Why do you want to add your voices to those attempting to DEHUMANIZE ALL members of the various trans communities?

Your significant other brought up bathrooms in her last paragraph. You seemingly have lost the ability to comprehend what you read. Where and when have I ever said that a pre-op transsexual would lay in wait to rape a woman in a bathroom? Please point that out if you do not mind.  It seems to me you are again confused about the true makeup of transgender. I would suggest you figure it out but that might require brain cells that still function. 

Anyone who knows me knows I oppose the “transgender borg”, the “transgender as umbrella” ideology with all my being. I also said – many years ago – “There’s no future being the ‘T’ in LGBT.”.

Okay what am I missing here. Isn't she contradicting herself again? If the transgender do not contain transvestites what is the issue?

That does NOT mean I follow the HBS, Classic Transsexual party line. Nor does it mean I oppose HUMAN RIGHTS for transgender individuals.

I didn't know I followed either myself and I never realized there was a party line for either. Assuming transvestites are include in Transgender I am not opposed to human rights for them but not at the expense of women.  If you give them access to women's spaces are you not violating my human rights as a woman? I guess when you were a man for as long as this one was it is hard to let go of manly thoughts. Is it a human right for a man in a dress to be allowed access to women's spaces? I guess these two nimrods are in favor of redefining what female means so men can fulfill their fantasies in women's spaces.  I am glad we have cleared that point up.  We now know they support transvestites as women whenever they want to be women.

Since transvestites have other identities. Since they usually spend most of their lives as (usually) MEN — there is no need to include transvestites, in any way, as “transgender”. 

Many Drag Queens have lives as gay men. Some actually spend more time in drag than anything else. Now the question arises — when does “drag” cease being “drag”? 

To those who are not aware of the fluidity of drag, queer, transgender, transsexual lives it may seem very confusing. Perhaps it is. That does not mean ALL these folks are not human.

This is one of my favorite comment snippet. Again transvestites are not part of transgender and now drag bars. It gets better.

Now, let us all assume you were pre-op and in a “drag bar” — which rest room would you use? Let us also assume there actually were some “natal women” in the bar, and they used the ladies room. Would you use the mens room?

Remember, this is a drag bar where most of the men are “tranny chasers” — would you, as a pre-op use that men’s room?

No!

Well, why not? Oh wait, I know YOU would be afraid of being RAPED by one of the men.

You are being treated like a woman. You are subject to the same societal restrictions as a woman. You are subject to the same fears as any other woman – with the addition of being seen as a “freak”.

Now, tell again all about “the bathroom issue”. Tell me how it assumes EVERY pre-op, post-op, transgender, etc., person is a RAPIST. Tell me how it ignores TOTALLY the fact most rapes are done by men, as men.

Okay the gay bar part I find both ridiculous and a clear indication this individual has no clue. First tranny chasers may go to a drag bar but they usually go to a club where the crowd has transsexuals. I was in a few in NYC.  I will leave the gay bar drag seen to this individual because personally as a self identified straight woman I would never go to a strictly gay bar. 

I have NEVER and let me repeat this emphatically NEVER said a pre-op transsexual would ever think of rape.  This is another instance of these two nimrods attempting to color someone other than they are. I defy them to fin one place where I have ever said that.

How would all of you that had SRS 10, 20, 30, 40, years ago feel using THE MEN’S ROOM?

Once again – just think about it.

See, those rabid-right-wing-folks would NOT see YOU as “special”.

Actually they would have to know I was born transsexual and I do not advertise that since I never thought it was of any importance but I gather being known as a "tranny" is important to you and your partner. What a sad way to go through life but then it does make you "special" just like your politics makes you "special".

Isn’t it some sort of gut check when you find yourselves in agreement with Phyllis Schlafly and an army of Christo-Nazi right wing bigots?

And their Internet Troll army of “radical feminists”?

First I am not a Schlafly follower and I am certainly not a Christo-Nazi and with the use of Nazi you basically lose all credibility. 

To discard people simply because you do not like them, that is BIGOTRY! Nothing more, nothing less.

Since when am I discarding people? 

Before going all out on the fictitious “bathroom issue” — perhaps think a bit.

Okay now I am confused again.  If the bathroom issue is fictitious then why did you spend such a long time spouting vile rhetoric and accusing me of being a Nazi, among many things, if there is no such thing as a bathroom issue? Isn't that exactly what I said?  Did I not say the bathroom issue would work itself out?

I am not making this up and am not putting words in her mouth. She actually said this and she and her partner then proceeded to label me a christo-fascist, being part of the HBS bigot mob, a Schlafly/Brennan supporter, a Nazi, 

My Summation

It seems I am both marginalizing and dehumanizing the transgender by opposing their access to women's spaces in their penis packing panties although neither of them seem to have a clue what transgender means.

Personally I thought the transvestites marginalized themselves and dehumanized women by pretending to be one of us and then demanded to be accepted as one legally despite the penis in the panties.  Silly me, but then I guess when you have basically gone through life wearing a tee-shirt screaming I am trans while in a drug and booze induced stupor reality is not something that manages to push its way through the permanent fog lived in.

One of course receives the normal critiques these lifetime losers always throw out. The best is I want to be special because I was a classic transsexual/HBS. Actually I have not been transsexual for 41+ years and found HBS to be interesting but infested with a lot of snakes just like these two. I am not the one that wants to be "special" and have always considered myself an ordinary woman that just happened to have a little history.

I always thought the idea of assimilating into society as a woman was the base desire of most of us born transsexual but these two seem to think unless you are out and proud you have no legitimacy and your opinions are not equal to their skewed or more accurately screwed up view of the world.

I think I crossed the line with them because of my position on the so-called "cotton ceiling" or their belief that a man with a penis can be just as lesbian and just as much a feminist and should be accepted as sex partners by lesbians. That is an opinion shared by basically every lesbian I know including some born transsexual. It would be like a heterosexual pre-op MTF transsexual claiming because men refuse to accept them as women and have sex with them they are transphobic.

I think dealing with lesbians is not different than dealing with men once you are no longer transsexual. Is a man that denies me transphobic and a Nazi because of it? Actually no he is not because it is not an easy situation for either men or lesbians.  What I see with these two is they are pissed because they see themselves as radical feminist lesbians and so want to be part of that crowd it irritates them no end that they are denied. The concept of living life as a woman is alien to them because they need to be "out and proud" which immediately makes acceptance difficult and they just plain refuse to admit it because they feel "special".

There is a reason for this position by these two but since I am not lesbian I think they should explain why they feel the way they do and maybe tell the truth about their relationship initially.

The humorous part is what the heck does a radical left wing militant atheist anarchist know about inalienable rights other than they can mouth off because of those rights. In her world the only people allowed to comment are people of her particular world vision which is as dead as the brain cells she murdered with decades of booze and drugs.

It is apparent to me that both of these individuals are lost in their little world of Che and Marx and seem to be confused as to what transgender means

What is the difference between a communist and a Nazi? Not much.  The communists use re-education camps and gulags while the Nazi's used concentration camps. The difference? Slightly better chance of surviving the commies but not by much. The big similarity is to stifle opposition. The issue with our commie friends that someone would dare comment opposing their view fits perfectly.

Appropriate Link

http://womenborntranssexual.com/2012/04/24/what-part-of-the-idea-of-inalienable-rights-is-so-hard-to-grasp/