Sandeen is mad at me because I and others protested Sandeen's change of sex/gender on Sandeen's California Birth Certificate. Here is the link to part 2 of Sandeen's grandiose view of Sandeen's martyrdom as a trans pioneer.
Poor Sandeen and the Sandeen desire to be a martyr. What was said was in no way shape or form cyber bullying. We disagree with the Sandeen's position and it is perfectly within our rights to both write about it and protest it and I would certainly not wish physical harm on Sandeen although Sandeen seems to think assault is okay for Sandeen as in Sandeen's hot coffee in the face argument with protagonists in San Diego.
Sandeen's problem is Sandeen has delusions of grandeur and wants to represent all of the other trans people and Sandeen can for all I care. Based simply on sex characteristics women do not have a penis or a 7 inch clitoris or anything of that kind.
Sandeen believes it is Sandeen's right to deconstruct what transsexualism is and to deny the medicalization of transsexualism but nobody else has the right to deny Sandeen this little delusion or at least to protest it. How convenient that is for Sandeen
I am quite sure Sandeen would "out me" if Sandeen knew who I was and if this was truly cyberbullying, it was not under even the most lenient of interpretations, Sandeen would have had opponents under investigation.
Sandeen has not one single concept of what it means to be either a female or a woman. Sandeen's idea of woman is dressing in Sandeen's little girl outfits and going to some fetish club or organization that celebrates transvestites like Sandeen and the Transvestite Potter in England, Grayson Perry, who like to dress like little girls. Even I will admit Sandeen looks better. You can check out Sandeen on YouTube if you like but I recommend avoiding it.
Sex is not gender and gender is not sex. Well, at least it was not for most of mankind's existence and birth certificates were at one time supposed to describe the sex characteristics of the child unless they were ambiguous and that was never handled correctly but 99.99% of them chose a sex if one is not mistakenly forced on them.
The entire gist of part 2 was how brave Sandeen was. Delusional is more accurate but unfortunately for Sandeen a piece of paper cannot make Sandeen female. Only Sandeen's friends in the Transgender Forever crowd will consider Sandeen a woman and that is because they want the same status while keeping their penis and balls.
I am quite surprised Sandeen did not airbrush in a halo over Sandeen's head but maybe Sandeen could not fit it on with such a swollen head. The really sad part is fools like Sandeen cannot even see the misogyny in redefining female to include a man and his genitals. They have been so accustom to their male privilege, Sandeen was well past 40, they find it difficult to accept the simple premise that female and male are different along with sex and gender.
Sandeen calls what Sandeen had Gender Confirmation Surgery which is weird because based on Sandeen's and the words of most of Sandeen's pals gender is fluid and not distinctly definable. So if gender is not definable and is fluid how can one have a gender on a birth certificate. Sex by its sex characteristics is binary except for the truly intersex who will chose if given the choice.
I am surprised that nobody has called these fraudulent claims on gender out, but then if one does it is just a bullying tactic. As for the claims of stalking those are most laughable. Sandeen threatened to out someone because they wrote negative posts about Sandeen. Is that not cyber bullying?
The simple truth is disagreement is not bullying and besides how can an older woman like me stalk a big burly Transgender woman like Sandeen? My lord Sandeen could beat the shit out of me or throw hot coffee in my face plus I live across the country. I comment on some posts Sandeen makes and that is my First Amendment right. If Sandeen does not want to be called out over the typical Sandeen bullshit Sandeen spews then Sandeen can either stop spewing the bullshit or take it like a man.
42 comments:
Not trying to be fussy, just letting you know (incase); you missed one:
and wants to represent all of her fellow trans people
;-P
The unmitigated gall of that man! To not only risk the present and future of all who are born transsexual by his silly stunt. But to then reduce 3.5 billion females to crude caricatures in the process! But of course they are caricature, which as Sandeen would show us are best done by a MAN!
Oh but wait! It gets better! The hubris does not end with his selfish needs, no! He, noble soul and men's civil rights activist that he is, goes on to plead for us to "cry him a river" cause we bad women don't snap too and praise his feminine dick!
Get real Sandeen! A dick isn't a twat and as you have shown time and again! You don't and won't ever have the slightest clue what makes a woman a woman!
MKIA
Sandeen has always wrapped his selfish actions in a cloth of socalled activism.
The sissy cloths story is fact.
I know someone who would testify in court to that fact who has seen it first hand. Sandeen was proud of his collection of sissy cloths.
It's laughable this poor excuse for ether a man or a woman would complain about us using information provided by a radfem. Why shouldn't we use any information Cathy had? Information is information and anything that can further cause can come from anywhere except the Devil himself for all I care.
Sandeen made a lot of enemies in San Diego even among the local Tee-Gees let alone the local TS population by meddling in one of the only support groups that encouraged TS and Tee-Gee alike to meld into the mainstream and take their place in the world as normal people instead of fetishists and weirdos. Sandeen his former roommate and a loud mouth transvestite from north county who put an end to that group. Sandeen went on to be one of the people who publicly assassinated this person's charecvtor.
This is what happens when someone tries to do the right thing. They come up against the fetishist mafia lead by the sissy godfather Lord Sandeen. And this person Sandeen calls him or herself a christian?
What a steaming load of crap is Sandeen trying to sell to the world.
"Cyberbullying"? I seriously pass doubt upon that!
Sandeen is in effect, a political figure. This would raise the bar considerably higher to claim "cyberbullying", short of advocating for his physical harm, I would think.
As a political figure, one has to be certain to expect protest and demonstration against his positions. Clearly it would be surmised that counter points and calls for opposition would be considered a form of public demonstration in opposing points of view to a political figures beliefs.
If this is his idea of some threshold having been crossed concerning his rights, certainly then, he's a piss poor version of any political figure I've witnessed to date.
Sandeen, why don't you just STOP! You're making yourself look pathetic! If you cannot engage people at the core of their ideas and make your own points score, and instead having to run for cover behind "Mommy's Legality Skirt" when they make the game to hard to play; then it's time to get out of the game! You're in over your head.
DJ
On a side note. AB433 is the catalyst which proved to much for me to stay engaged in the Trans-Machine. I believe I commented in one of Elizabeth's earlier blog entries over a year ago when she discussed this.
While the law was constructed to be meant for people who've actually gone through with complete SRS, the loop hole in how people like Sandeen could abuse it in just this manner was big enough to drive the space shuttle through. All it requires is complicit verification of 'Gender' conforming surgery by an 'compassionate and willing' surgeon, or doctor. It was much to vague and I believe improperly sold (lobbied) to the State legislators for passing.
DJ
I forgot to sign my post, post #3
NYF
FWIW, I did not submit that brief I wrote, as AB-433 settled the question so the judge didn't have to. I just wanted clarification as to what the then-existing law meant, it wasn't personal. The legislature got there first, so there was no need to get involved in this particular proceeding, and I didn't.
As I recall it happening, I read the modern equivalent of a newspaper and saw an interesting story on the front page that raised an interesting legal question, so I participated in the democratic process in accordance with state law. I posted relevant legal statutes in effect at the time directly from the California code books for reference by other interested parties, included a link to the public web page of the relevant California court in case any other interested parties cared to exercise their legal right to present information to the court, and then exited the process at conclusion of relevant legislative deliberations that rendered the issue moot. I left opponents alone afterward, encouraged others to do the same, and have not so much as written or spoken the petitioner's name since October of 2011.
Which of these actions are considered "bullying," "stalking," or "harassment," and why, is unclear to me. Maybe part 3 will specify.
-- A.R.
Ditto the above
I think the last paragraph by Mr. sandeen where he talks about how someone of history made it very difficult with him and his surgeon, will be an interesting read indeed.
Many of us are quite sure he had a hand in coercing, threatening to expose, and making threats against, SA-ET of enough nonsense blog, so much so that SA-ET quit writing on the issue.
Sandeen says that women of history are dangerous and should not be underestimated. The truth is that Sandeen is the dangerous one and his writings are carefully worded and phrased to make him look like a victim, when in fact it is all transsexual people that are the victims of sandeen's manipulative messages that are condoned by and sanctified by the GLBT organizations, blogs and websites.
Leigh
Ditto the above
I think the last paragraph by Mr. sandeen where he talks about how someone of history made it very difficult with him and his surgeon, will be an interesting read indeed.
Many of us are quite sure he had a hand in coercing, threatening to expose, and making threats against, SA-ET of enough nonsense blog, so much so that SA-ET quit writing on the issue.
Sandeen says that women of history are dangerous and should not be underestimated. The truth is that Sandeen is the dangerous one and his writings are carefully worded and phrased to make him look like a victim, when in fact it is all transsexual people that are the victims of sandeen's manipulative messages that are condoned by and sanctified by the GLBT organizations, blogs and websites.
Leigh
@DJ: The actual standard under AB-433 is presentation of a letter declaring that the person "has undergone appropriate treatment." There is no surgical or hormonal requirement, or any other requirement. Just a properly-worded letter from the "appropriate treatment" booth at Southern Comfort is all it takes in California, and then the judge is required to approve the petition no matter what.
There's no loophole, this is the new law working exactly as designed. I don't like it, but for the time being, I'm still doing the "wait and see" thing, in case it turns out to have some huge positive effect I hadn't foreseen. (BTW, real "bigots" NEVER "wait and see.")
The big misrepresentation was that it was sold as "streamlining the process," but the process is the same as it was before: Get court order, then send order to Vital Records to get certificate. Meet the new process, same as the old process. If the old anatomical resemblance standard had been retained, I would have wholly supported making approval automatic.
-- A.R.
@ Leigh
My thoughts exactly.
I do believe Sandeen and this so called doctor had a hand in what appears to be a real threat directed at SA-ET.
Sandeen tried to get my internet service discontinued by gaming the terms of service. If I were Sandeen I wouldn't go sticking appendages down badger holes, while he, Sandeen may be able to beat the ride he won't be able to beat the ride. I don't have anything to loose and I am judgment proof.
Sad to see someone like SA-ET be bullied by a lifestyle transvestite.
Message to Autumn..
Look stupid I can say whatever the fuck I want as long as there is no direct threat of physical violence,l libel or slander you, or I am not publishing any information that isn't public
You got that you low life peace of human filth.
There isn't a fucking thing you can do about it. The fact you and your filthy friends harassed and ran off a person who was actually doing good for the community, is reason enough for many in San Diego to hate you.
RE;
Message to Autumn post
Gee I forgot again..
I wish this blog had an edit feature.
NYF
@ Andrea,
You are right about the exact language. I was relying on my pitiful memory from round-table discussions when they were beginning organizing the lobbying effort.
The whole thought of what was going to occur just made me ill to think I would be a part of it. Ultimately, I couldn't bear it and resigned.
DJ
Oh Elizabeth,
The hardest part of getting played is losing your dignity, feeling like your not worth the air your sucking in. You’ll get used to it. I told you this was going to happen. The best you’ll hear from NYF, MKIA, D.J., A.R. and Leigh is hearsay and fruit of a poisonous tree. You really can’t rely on the drunk who thinks “…if you don’t pass kill yourself.”
There are no simple explanations, based on what I know from my fathers teachings/indoctrinations I get the feeling we are a evolutionary advancement. Can you accept that as a possibility? Can you adapt to progress? Or are you following some kind of religion that says your special and more deserving? Perfection? How about your warped sense of self? We talked about that too.
By believing that you are somehow special, rare and blessed (i.e. legitimate), we are not being intellectually honest here are we? You devalue your own life by spending thought, time, and energy, to maintain a myth for the selfish promise of exclusivity and legitimacy; that self-proclaimed specialness--blessed by the Gods, while the others are cursed for example Christians do this all the time. Instead of feeling a connection with others because of our humanity, we are constantly distracted by a lie that tells us we are better than others; you are guessing that you are the true, entitled, legitimate-… whatever, others are not. A superiority complex in place of luck emerges. A distorted self image; a thought distortion.
In your case I can see transference. What evidence did you grandmother use to deny your gender identity? So now you do it to others. Right? All throughout your blog your grandmother is mentioned, not in supportive terms. Do you transfer that on those you deem lesser? The same thing goes for corporal punishment of children, very reactionary, and I‘m sure you will find a dearth of psychological evidence to support it beyond deleterious results. Where do you draw the line, or are you completely unaware of that?
I have something you don’t have. I’m so lucky. My grandmother knew and even though she only saw the real me once before she died, those words, “I knew” rang like the most beautiful music I’ve longed to hear. She was my first angle protector that helped me and I didn’t even know it.
When you fight someone they are your enemy--who is the enemy here? Grandma transferred to the TG’s perhaps?
Your own bullshit doesn’t stand up to the same scrutiny you clearly place upon others. So your throw your tired meme’s out at me (stalker-domina) pathetic defense, baseless recriminations, instead of really thinking about your own actions. Clearly your not intending to cyber-bully, but keep in mind Sandeen is very predictable and easy to manipulate; a clown like Jesse Jackson.
I suggest your energy is better spent in selling your position, celebrating yourself instead of throwing rocks at others. Unfortunately now your stuck; obtuse, recalcitrant and obstinate--your ego. Everyone is stuck with the things they are not proud of. None of your good deeds will redeem you here. Why not admit mistakes where made?
BlackSwan
@Blackswan
We are an evolutionary advancement? Well I can admit you are fucking nuts. If being born transsexual is an evolutionary advancement that implies you consider it a blessing which makes you a lying sack of shit if you claim you were born transsexual.
I have never said I was better, worse, more important or less important than any other transsexual. I do believe we are decidedly different than transvestites but then you do not so we are at odds.
As for my grandmother it was the 1950's you dumb shit. Nobody had a clue about this shit.
As for transference that is total bullshit and now you are into psychoanalysis?
Sweetie you forget I know everything about you. You have used the dom wordings in your own writings. I can post a link of you like but alas it would out you. You and I both know it is a fact you stalked Caroline Cossey. Heck you tried to stalk me in Boston but alas you were and are just too fucking stupid to understand much.
They are not baseless arguments but then you know this as do others on the internet. You make your living by denigrating yourself and other women. Do you deny that? Your pathetic life revolved around making it into the Guinness Book. How pathetic is that.
I do not support transvestites in women's spaces and you do. I wish them no harm but they are men as is Sandeen although a ball-less one. I gather you have no problem with a female having a functional penis. I do.
You are the one that has made this personal and well it is now.
"None of my good deeds will redeem you here!" What good deeds are you talking about dipshit? What mistakes were made?
Your problem is that you will never just be a woman. It is impossible in your mind for this to happen and you are wrong but that is why you do what you do isn't it?
Life is full of ups and downs and we all make mistakes and I have made my share like everyone but my mistakes hurt me and nobody else after I learned I was transsexual.
You missed the entire point about my grandmother but then you are blinded by your own self hatred. You hate yourself, your body, your father, and everyone responsible for your childhood.
I would explain why you missed the point about my grandmother but that would require you to have a clue.
You are banned for bringing my family into this.
Elizabeth,
Don’t lower yourself my dear. One of your weapons is to get others not to accept themselves as who they are. Are you being a hypocrite? You can speak about my father and child abuse, call me crazy, a stalker (funny), a married man with children, but I can’t speak about your family to demonstrate an argument about transference? How obtuse can you be? You can dangle “knowing everything” about me as an oblique threat, but if you know me at all it’s as if a pea shooter vs. a battle ship tactic. You know me because I gave you just enough information to find out, but not enough that Google would trace me here. You can try your pea shooter, but it illuminates your fatalistic narrative. I’ve been through a lot worse than you can possibly imagine. Choose peace instead.
The truth is stranger than fiction.
BlackSwan
I see Black Swan couldn't help herself, she had to drag out the old tired "you all think you are better than the Tee-Gees," bullshit.
I don't think I am better than anybody just because I had no alternative but to correct my birth condition as best as I could. I don't think I am better than those who cannot or won't have SRS. I don't even think I am better than Sandeen who selfishly used a loophole in the law to have his legal sex changed. It is the Tee-Gees and the Lifestyle Transvestites who are so insecure they believe they are inferior to those who have worked to complete our transitions and enter the female half of mainstream society. They the Tee-Gees and Lifestyle Transvestites project their insecurity in the form of a false sense of superiority they label us with. This is the oldest trick in the book it's nothing more than the socialist whining about the have's and the have-not's because they are too lazy or too stupid make their own way in life. All this talk of privilege that I hear Sandeen spout and to an equal extent by a certain WBT is just that people feeling sorry for themselves and will lobby to force governments to give them their hand out or their free pass. In the case of Sandeen it's a fake ticket into womanhood. \
And now we have Black Swan taking up their cause by making the false accusation that we feel we are superior to the non ops.
What a load of crap.
Get a life Black Swan or move in with Autumn, whatever you do keep your Tee-Gee claptrap to yourself.
@Blackswan
You are off topic per usual and this went to Sam so I missed it. Seems like a good spot for you, the Spam folder.
I actually do not hate anyone except possibly my first husband but that is only occasionally because he is kind of like you and will not just go away.
What does this mean to you?
A. E.
You have no clue what transference is and confuse the simple fact I oppose someone's position and assume that is associated with hate. It is not but then that is how you see the world.
If you accept a female can have a penis then I pity you but I do not hate you although I do dislike your position and you a little but it is not hate. If I hated you I would nail you to the wall and then sit back and watch the fun. Simple truth is you are not worth it.
You are a typical TG apologist. You are right and everyone else is wrong and if they disagree with your myopic opinions they are bigots. If you want to post comments on this blog make them cogent to the topic or do not comment.
Your other big problem is quite simply you still think like a man even though you are actually a woman. That is so sad but typical of people like you. You denigrate women in how you primarily make your living and then you denigrate them by proposing that a man with a fucking penis is also a woman.
Now please just go away if you cannot discuss the post point.
With coffee in one hand and barf bucket in the other I ventured over to PHB and Sandeen's part 2 of his diatribe rant much against my better judgement and read the 9 comments published 2 of which are Sandeen himself saying thank you for some sycophant posting support (who also happened to be "non op") How very polite.
apparently the opinion of those who posted was that we were all "mean spirited" and were like "uncle Tom blacks" I've never really understood analogies of that sort in association with either sexual or gender matters. They can hardly be compared.
One of the advantages I garner due to my own personal circumstances is the way you get to hear what people really think about TG issues when they come up in everyday discussions, albeit very rarely, it isn't a subject most people think about and isn't regarded as important as say the price of groceries at the supermarket. As it happens it is probably on about the same level of priority for me 95% of the time. However, I am not "out and proud" but I'm not "in and Ashamed" either. I simply "am" During the first couple of years of my transition i e one year before and one after I was "out" to a close selection of friends none of whom I still socialise with through my choice their reaction was very supportive. There was however an incident that became very public at the time in UK's tabloid press and I cringed and tried to keep a low profile until the spotlight was turned off! When I again surfaced I was asked where I'd been, When I explained the reaction was "Oh but that wasn't anything like you, you're different" I asked what they meant because on the surface there had been some uncomfortable similarities. The reply was poignant to this discussion: "you had a sex change, you were female anyway, we've known you for years remember. They were not there is nothing remotely feminine about them"
Now I can already hear the squeals of protest about "privilege" and perhaps I was fortunate or was it a matter of "clear difference" between conditions? I think it is and if that is the case then TG have obstacles to overcome transsexuals don't and for that I feel sorry for them and I would advocate legislation to prevent discrimination. That said there are other rights that must be considered in the process of legislation and that is the right of women to dignified privacy in locations such as bathrooms and public changing facilities.
A piece of paper is not going to stop the majority of women kicking those like Sandeen out of the sporting facility when they see the remainder of his "bits" flapping about in the breeze. The very fact that he can tolerate the thing hanging there should tell any sane person he's a he and not a she, surely they can see that. Or is up now down and purple the new green?
I'm shocked to read such a thing from you Foxfire!...
I'd have thought you of ALL people would respect what for Autumn was obviously a highly personal "choice". frankly, I'm lost for words!
But then again, maybe it's all just SEMANTICS and we all just need to "grow up" (me especially! no doubt!), maybe we're all deliberatly obfuscatiing or misinterpreting Autumns text?...
My apologies Liz, apparentlly some only like the message when it suites THEM
Oh look! A small group (couldn't be more than ten)who have nothing better to do than diss a person that does her talking out in the open and not hidden behind the anon tag. Autumn may have bat shit for brains, but she owns what she says. In public. This small group of 'I am and your not' people sit in this closed closet and take pot shots at individuals and never talk about anything else but the dreaded tg taking over the world.
Get over it. Do some good!!
Now it's my turn to be dissed....
Stephanie
Hay Steff
Has it ever occurred to you we don't support the freakinization of people born with our birth condition?
I guess it never crossed your mind that Autumn degrades all of us by his, her or whatever Sandeen is actions?
It has never crossed your mind that every other person on the planet born with a birth defect works to be as normal as possible?
What kind of shit do you smoke after work?
Nobody who is mentally healthy wants to live a freakish lifestyle.
Sandeen cuts his balls off and then brags about it to show off, and rubs our faces in it by getting a peace of paper that makes him officially a chick with a dick.
What the hell kind of freakish bullshit is that?
You might enjoy the freak fetish lifestyle and want to shove it in everyone's face, step back and ask yourself why?
Sandeen and I have this from a reliable source gets off on being an exhibitionist, this is the only way he can do it without going to jail.
NYF
I remembered this time!
but she owns what she says. In public.~ Stephanie.
So let me see if I understand you, you think it's noble or admirable that not only is someone totally unhinged, but ALSO! that they are proud to show the world just how much of a fruitcake they are... that they "own" the fact that the world thinks they're a freak?.....
There you have it folks! There's the TG mentality at it finest!
Get over it. Do some good!!~Stephanie
Some good for who Stephanie?...
How?... Like Autumn does?
@Stephanie
I would not diss you. You do a good enough job on yourself for all concerned.
@Elizabeth,
In reference to Stephanie, it should be more acurately put "we deserve and you don't" using Sandeen as the strawman, justifing, excluding, eliminating, blocking others from access to gender recogniction and legitamacy. Nice to know you are NOT the gate keeper.
That concludes this lesson in hate today.
BlackSwan
Cue the disparaging comments
Liz and others, I admire your tenacity. I couldn't begin to muster the tireless energy you expend arguing against the bat-shit craziness of Sandeen and the TG political wonks who seek to usurp the jealously perceived legitimacy of transsexuals to further their fantasist agendas. Even reading extracts of their crap makes me yearn for a hot cleansing shower and something to settle my stomach.
- an old aunty
Now let's just all hold on here. Miss Stephanie makes a really good point. This really is a very small group. Not even ten.
And hey! Just what exactly is all the 'dissing'(?) about anyway?
I mean why should we care that perv's like Paul Witherspoon, wants into our private spaces? I mean really. After-all thousands of men, just like our friendly bi-polar pal, Sandeen and all his gay friends think we are all just bigoted, hateful seperatists.
Why, we should all just get with the program and join Miss Stephanie and all their friends in one great big kum-ba-ya.
I mean why bother with all this oppressive victimization when we can just join in with all those thousands of happy crossdressers hiding from their wives or trying to convince them to join in all that fun pretend-bian sex.
You know. Why should we be part of that hateful bigoted bunch of Christo-Facists that believe that men and women are well...you know...like 'different'. We should all just get enlightened and uberstand the new realities like, you know...pregnant men and women with penises.
New World Order
Dear Black Swan keeps on returning. Disagreement is hate. Alternate opinion is bigotry. A penis is equivalent to a vagina as long as long as a dress is worn. Women are second class citizens and should just shut the fuck up because all the men in dresses are the only ones that understand what we women need.
In realize you are happy being a transwoman because it is obvious you consider yourself less than a woman but then when you cannot stop thinking like a man like BlackSwan understanding that opinion and dissent are not hatred and bigotry.
We are not the ones trying to deconstruct female so a penis qualifies. We are not the ones trying to tell men a man can get pregnant. We are not the ones blindly screaming about gender bias when none of you ass wipes can even come up with a definitive answer what gender is because while you want some men i n dresses accepted as women you claim others have different concepts of gender that are acceptable. You clowns cannot even keep your stories straight.
I am not the one that said "Sandeen was too stupid" that was you and that is very derogatory but the ass wipe TG apologists are the only ones that are allowed to criticize an dissent because after all they are male minded and know what is best for women.
@Elizabeth et al.
You didn't just "disagree" did you? What actions did you take to attempt to stop Sandeen from changing her birth certificate? You proudly posted them in this blog.
Forget all the red herring stuff; chicken little wears no cloths.
BlackSwan
@BlackSwan
You do understand this is the United States of America and I have a constitutional right to protest what I perceive as an unjust decision or law.
I wrote to both the Transgender law center and Lauren Robinson who was the author of the bill and was convinced that the bill was an attempt to simplify things for those people that had undergone SRS and needed document changes and was not an attempt to circumvent the necessity of SRS.
The reason Sandeen had an orchi was in order to circumvent the intent of the law. I never encouraged anything that was illegal, immoral, or unconstitutional so exactly what did I do wrong?
Oh, I remember. I protested that a female cannot have a penis and have "female" on a birth certificate. It is not as big "clitoris" it is a penis. It seems it is perfectly fine for Sandeen to violate the Law and wear a female uniform and illegally chain herself to the White House fence, I agree with her position on DADT, but it is somehow wrong for me and others to legally protest what we see as unjust.
You are typical of the TG crowd. Only you and yours have the right to protest and demonstrate against what we see as oppression. How convenient.
Now why don't you just tell us all how we should conduct ourselves? Let me guess. Be good little girls and let "us" men handle these things because you don't want to overwork your sweet little brains!
You should have stayed a man asshole because you are still thinking like one.
@ Black Swan, You said, "....."we deserve and you don't" using Sandeen as the strawman, justifing, excluding, eliminating, blocking others from access to gender recogniction and legitamacy."
Can I ask, just what is it you're griping about here? I mean, the State in question has passed a law that IS currently being utilized to get what you're advocating for, right? Men who don't want to have SRS but still want to assume the label of 'woman', or 'female', right? Well, you've got it! So be happy!
However, what Elizabeth and others, including myself have stated is mere opinion and dialogue for debate in opposition to the 'current' utilization for that law. So what!?! As Elizabeth also stated, ".....this is the United States of America and I have a constitutional right to protest what I perceive as an unjust decision or law."
The opposition of your point of view is not a "we deserve and you don't" message. It is a right vs. wrong argument! The points against your position are anything BUT a "strawman". By simple referral to the recent article on one Paul(a) Witherspoon should be enough to validate that issue! Care to take up sides for that cause? Even though it didn't happen in California, it still sends shivers in the hearts of people who've been against legislation like AB433 from the beginning.
These are not arguments from a position of bigotry. They are in reality based on factualization of proper concern for safety and security of spaces which deserve to remain out-of-bounds to those who have not completed SRS for anything other than medical and/or financial hardship situations. And potentially, even those should be afforded 'monitored' caution.
Another reality is this. Only delusional people would hold a belief that women are equipped with a penis. The Trans-Machine is seen by and large as represented by delusional people. Gaining legitimacy for such delusional visage is not going to happen through legislation. Not even by the misuse of AB433. And, certainly not by the representation of people like Sandeen within the Trans-Machine!
These really are very simple realities.
DJ
Wow Elizabeth, there you go again, you really don't want me to accept myself as a woman do you? This is a common tactic of yours, predictable, anytime someone disagrees with you this is your wet noodle response. Not taking the bait.
Never said what you did or proposed to do was illegal, I'm juct calling a spade when I see it: hate speech. Did you identify yourself when you made your inquires? You where obviously dismissed and your little band of obsequious followers are seeing your true colors.
Sometime's when we ignore human nature, hate for example, we tend to bring out the worst in it.
I'm only calling you on your hate, which as we all know carries an stigma that renders your argument illegitimate. So of course you have to deny it anytime you play the hate card. Samething with the race card.
In the historical context I can see this ugly Leviathan rear its ugly head again. Enter stage right Sheila Jefferys paroting Janice Raymond's RadFem legal right to preach hatred and bigotry--sounds like someone you'd know and willing to sell all of us out to. BTW, that's what happend last time when Raymond's junk science was accepted as authority, transsexuality was decertified, and are you willing to sell us out again so that more of those kids like me and you can parish in suicide just so you can throw some hate at Sandeen? Can't you see how obvious you are?
Whites did exactly the same to blacks, native americans, latinos and anthing that wasn't white anglo America.
Staits did it to gays and lesbians.
Feminists did it to transsexuals.
Do you see the pattern? Until you do I think i'll stick around.
BlackSwan
@BlackSwan
Actually what I am saying is your actions and words indicate you and you alone have not been able to let go of your male past.
In point of fact you are female and a woman but until you actually accept yourself as such and recognize you are a woman and not a "transwoman" then you have issues which in my writing I sometimes phrase incorrectly if in a rush.
Please stay around. You provide comic relief with your inherently silly TG Borg melodramatic mantra.
There are two reasons people get SRS.
Reason 1 is to be a sexually active female and a normal female or woman. In other words to have sex characteristics that match our female brains.
Reason 2 is to be less male and that encompasses many that have SRS and stay with the wife in a "non-sexual" or claimed asexual relationship.
In my mind both are female and women physically but have had difficulty leaving the male past behind which is understandable when one considers how long most were men.
Personally I think you are reason 1 but somehow you cannot see that. You are an irritating asshole and you did try and hurt me and I am positive you would have "outed me" if you had the chance. Therefore I take my shots at you because to be blunt you are such a dumbshit you open you mouth and then put pen to paper and commit your stupidity on the internet.
Keep it up BlackSwan because comic relief is a good thing.
DJ,
Are exigent circumstances and clear and present danger being proffered here? Janise Raymond was able to, pretty much single handedly, by writing a book and doing some junk research that put our medical care back 20 years. Lots died--I should be dead too, but I’m one tuff cookie. You betcha there is a clear and present danger here, and its rearing its head again with Sheila Jefferys.
Now Sheila Jeffery’s claims similar issues within potty politics as y‘all: Are exigent circumstances and clear and present danger being proffered here?
Has anyone here used exclusively female spaces and locker room while pre-op. I did. And 24hour Fitness has a model policy for it.
Your argument is placing the responsibility for a few bad apples on the majority of pre-op TS/TG. Lets go back in time first and see if mirror image was used.
Did whites exclude blacks, saying there was danger in integrating people of color? Using all kinds of bad apple examples? Are exigent circumstances and clear and present danger being proffered here? No.
Did straits do the same to gays and lesbians? Lots of bad apples where paraded? Are exigent circumstances and clear and present danger being proffered here? No.
Allowing a pre-op TS or TG to use a bathroom that corresponds to their gender identity (please note I’m not saying male or female here); are exigent circumstances and clear and present danger being proffered here? No. Bringing out a few bad apples doesn’t justify, in my opinion, excluding the vast majority of the innocent intent to relieve ones self.
The real issue is intent and a few bad apples doesn't equal the intent to commit harm.
BlackSwan
@BlackSwan
Please stop with these horrible analogies. Racism was and is horrible and deplorable. Homophobia is horrible and deplorable but in all those cases it was men vs men and women vs women and not the potential for male verses female.
If a facility has a sound and sensible policy then I think that is fine. I honestly would never say anything to someone using female restrooms if i saw no threat but I want the right to scream if Paul Witherspoon walks in.
The problem is if one cannot protect oneself from the bad apples until the bad apples do something. Your problem is you are comparing apples, racism/homophobia, to oranges because there is a distinct physical disadvantage to one group in this case and it is the women. i realize that is not a problem for you but it is for me at 5-8 and 130 pounds.
Your problem BlackSwan is you lack the cognitive ability to make a rational analogy and to reason your way to actually understand the issue because physical danger is not an issue for you since I believe you know martial arts. I personally am not even sure how to make a fist.
Should all women be required to take martial arts to feel safe?
And even then Liz, M/A or other Self defense techniques are only of any use until you come up against a bigger, stronger and equally skilled opponent
Elizabeth
Your right. I’m positive I can’t make more than an argument using case synthesis between apples and oranges because you will not find any apples to apples examples in the aforementioned examples in history either. Case synthesis is how it works.
So if you think I wanted to hurt you by outing you, yet you haven’t proven one simple element to make your case; intent. Intent is everything, and your accusation is dead in the water without it. Doing research on your alleged case doesn’t equal outing you does it?
I don’t buy into the umbrella politics, which isn’t the issue, but because I support AB 433 and Sandeen’s desire to change her birth certificate doesn’t make me a TG. I would hope you moderate this BS from NYF.
There are two things you need to know in life; Law and Kung Fu. To answer your question about martial arts: Yes, to stay in shape and it’s a great physical discipline. Learning to make a fist: Take a boxing class sometime, it’s the fastest way I know of to get your arms in shape, gets ride of that back arm flab.
BlackSwan
@BlackSwan
Oh please do not take me to be as big a fool as you are. You support someone with a penis being able to have a female birth certificate so you are therefore a fucking idiot.
It is as simple as that. Women and females do not have a penis. Case closed. End of analysis.
You are not a legal expert in any way shape or manner. What BS would that be from NYF?
You are so full of shit you should supply hip-boots to wade through the shit. Your analogy is most certainly specious and an example or comparing oranges and apples but then I do not expect you to accept that simple fact.
AB 433 was not intended to be used as it was but Sandeen beat the system. It still only makes him female in the eyes of idiots like you and his brethren men in dresses. Not one single person will accept him as female.
Do you think women would accept him stripping publicly in front of them cause he is "female"? NO!!!
Do you think a lesbian would accept her as a lesbian partner if Sandeen was so inclined with a penis? NO fucking way.
Do you think a straight man would accept Sandeen as a female with a penis and desire sex? NO he would not.
So just where does Sandeen qualify as female? Only in her mind and on a birth certificate.
You are most certainly part of the TG Borg since you support this kind of silliness. You can claim otherwise but it is what it is.
If you think the two things you need to know in life are the Law and Kung Fu then you are more damaged than I realized.
We both know you do not need Kung Fu to defend yourself. Now repeat your same bullshit and tell us how you know the Law, you do not, and I will sit back and wait for my nerxt laugh.
@Elizabeth
I have no problem responding to your questions as long as you understand I mean you no harm and that just attempting to look up your case doesn't equal outing you. Got that?
BlackSwan
Black Swan
Poking into someone's past can be seen as gathering information to use as leverage against them.
I also agree with Elizabeth, you don't know the law. AB 433 was a bad law from the beginning. No supporting evidence other than some peace of paper from a quack, no supporting evidence from a therapist. That's like taking a note from your mom to school saying you want to be a girl today, the stupidity of it is monumental.
The bill reads like a law made for the men in dresses. You could get a nose job and have your B/C changed to female.
By the way for anybody who is interested it's been an open secret in the Tee-Gee community in California that you could get an orch from a certain doctor and use that to change your BC. Long before MR. Sandeen did it and bragged about it There was another Tee-Gee who did it here in SanDiego and bragged about it. This person may have used the same doctor, I have it on good authority Sandeen knows this person. My friend who knows Sandeen knows this other person as well.
The difference between now and then is the costs involved AB 433 cut the cost by quite a bit.
Until AB 433 the cost of court ordered changes on birth certificates was in the neighborhood of 500 dollars. AB 433 isn't needed.
By the way Black Swan.
Kinf Fu doesn't do much good against pepper spray and a nail file.
While an attacker is stunned for that two or three seconds from the pepper spray a lot of damage can be done. All the kung fu in the world won't help you when you are temporally blinded and can't breathe through your nose.
There are really 3 things you need to know. One is your rights another is how to use anything in your purse as a weapon the last is awareness of the situation you are in at any given time. Only stupid people walk down the street with both ears plugged with an ipod and their mind a hundred miles away.
NYF
I wonder what happened to part 3?
Sandeen was going to write a third part to his TS hate fest.
Oh well Sissy is as sissy does.
NYF
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