Wednesday, April 13, 2011

I will never understand.

I will never understand late transitioners. 

I will never understand how someone that is a Type V transsexual or a woman trapped in a man's body can marry and father children if they are a woman?

I will never understand why some late transitioning man can suddenly believe he understands all things female just because he is transitioning.

I will never understand why late transitioners actually believe they are role models and want to be out in front representing transsexuals. In my opinion you are the entire perception problem transsexuals have.  Kim Petras can be a role model. Ashley Prince can be a positive role model. Late transitioners cannot be role models. Nobody believes their reasoning whether it is actually truthful or not.  It is just so odd.

I will never understand why MTF late transsexuals are hurt because the wife takes the kids and walks out. What do you expect them to to do? I guess they should jump for joy that they can now have a perceived lesbian relationship with the man they once loved.

I will never understand why late transitioners have such a high percentage of lesbians. If your mind is truly feminine then the percentages should be reasonably close to the percentage of the cis women that are lesbian.  Why are close to 50% of late transitioners lesbian.  Could it be because they were never transsexual and alwasy were and still are heterosexual men.

I will never understand how some late transitioners wife can stay with him but I think I have their reasoning. If the wife has a career she is probably gone. Maybe some are in abusive relationships and afraid of the new girly husband. A normal relationship involves love and sex plus a healthy friendship and if the sex is long since gone maybe love and friendship cause them to stay.  As long as they have no issues being perceived as a lesbian then I guess it can happen.

I will never understand why someone posts as Anonymous and believes they have credibility but then they are obviously fearful of letting anyone know who they really are.

I will never understand how a parent abandons their children.

I will never understand how any late transitioner can rationalize that transitioning in front of their children is not harmful or painful to a child. They never should have married in the first place.

I am not sure I want to understand much of this either.  I read the reasons and the rationale for doing what they do and I am sure for many it is the only way to survive being transsexual. I read it in their painful posts and comments. The ones that irritate me are the ones that are upset the wife is hurt or the children react hurtfully.


22 comments:

June said...

I took that photo of myself 6 years ago. I just turned sixty in the pic. I have other pix, but I don't like to brag about my personal life, nor to put my loved ones out on the chopping block.

There are a lot of things I don't understand, but I do know how easy it is for people to turn hypocritical, contradictory, and judgmental. I am just as guilty of those things as anyone else could be, but I do recognize how imperfect we can be, and how easy it is to fail.

I had many of the same doubts as you. Just as difficult it is for me to remember how to form a vector analysis on a simple heliocentric parallax, it is as easy to forget that I am as human as anyone else. I often have to catch myself before I fall, not only bodily, but within my innermost feelings about things that surround me.

I can't believe that I'm Republican, but saying that I'm not, doesn't make it so. :)

I honestly wish you all the best.


take care always,

June

Sara said...

So speaking as a late transitioner, I do not all of a sudden know all things female. I am a role model to no-one. I divorced my wife a few years prior to transition because, 1 - I hated being married, and 2 - I hated being married to a woman. I focused on raising my girls, and transitioned when they were 15 and 19. In order to fulfill my promise to my oldest daughter I put her through college before I had my surgery. Then I got my youngest relocated to San Francisco. The focus was always on them, not me. As it should be.

Hurting the girls was the second hardest thing I have ever done. The first? Burying their brother. I hated every single second of their pain. Hated myself for hurting them.

And now? They give me tips on men and dating. My youngest and I will travel to Europe together next month. I will be in their weddings and they will be in mine. Is it perfect? Nope. Is your life perfect?

So no you don't want to understand this. Be thankful you grew up in a household where your parents actually cared about who you were. Growing up with a mother who hated her children and her life was just a barrel of laughs.

And I do agree with you about the incessant whining of some late transitioners. Be adults. Be responsible and accountable for your actions. Divorce your wife and let her have a good life. Be true to your children. Shut up and live your lives with quiet dignity and some modicum of grace.

Done. Out. Peace.

Sara ...

Elizabeth said...

@June,

The only similarities you have with me is we both a human although I have my doubts about you. Being a spawn of the devil you might be subhuman.

I do not want to be your friend and nobody I know or read on the internet wants to be your friend. I wish you zero ill will but I do sometimes wish you would get your head out of your asshole but then again I think you like the smell of your own crap.

@Sara,

I would gather you just deluded yourself into believing you could be a man to a woman based on pressure or just life. That is how it happens and for some transsexuals has happened since before Harry's time.

I understand that happens and knew several like this even in the late 60's. We are different yet we are similar and that is what being born transsexual means. If it happens you need to be honest with the wife and the kids and you have.

Have a great time this summer with your daughter.

Liz

Dawn1257 said...

Elizabeth,

And, I will never understand why you and others having similar feelings think that somehow transitioning "late" is a form of invalidation. That somehow, your not a real woman with a transexual history.

Honestly, I will never understand your position. So, I suppose that makes us even. Therefore, the two negatives cancel each other out and neither opinion bears any credence!

Except that I wish to offer my own opinion in answer to your premise.

If you remember what it was like for you personally when you were but a child and quizzing yourself over the conflicting internal struggle with what you saw when you looked at your naked body in the mirror; did you have a supportive mother or father, or other guardian in that situation? My assumption is that you might have been one of the lucky few. As I am not much younger than yourself, just a few years, I grew up in a very militaristic home environment. I father routinly ran gay men out of the military when he was in. He would consistantly relay upon his children the "evils" of gay people. I'll spare you the real juicy details, but now how would you living in such an environment be able to reach out for help in understanding that you didn't believe yourself to be this male envisioned person. That, you are completely certain that you are in fact, female instead! Believe me, the support wasn't happenin' in my house when I was young.

The last thing I wanted to do was be offending to my father. If he expected me to act like a man. Of course that's who "he" saw when he looked at me. Then I better damned well be acting like one! Period! That includes marrying and having kids.

The troubling part of the latter expectation is that I tried telling my wife before we were married that there was something about me that I needed to get out to her. I just couldn't find it in me to say something so ludicrous that I felt I was a woman inside. I'd never even heard of such a thing, myself! And, I dealy loved this woman I was about to marry.

It's been thirty one years since we married and six years since I began transition. One year since completion. We're still married.

Whatever you have for a reason behind a short sightedness in understanding how this could happen, know this: I love my wife, my wife loves me. We made a vow to each other that it was for better or for worse. We keep our promises to each other. You know those conditions in the vows about 'for worse'? Well, this is one of the for worse deals. However, we have built and loved a lifetime together. Our kids are grown, on their own and have no problems (now) with their dad being transexual. It's just something that happened. There's so much more I'd like to say in response to this frustrating topic. Yet, I fear you don't have the bandwidth available.

Elizabeth said...

@Dawn,

Like most you did not read the last paragraph but then I expect nothing less from someone who has so much bandwidth.

There is not one single reason I should understand because the difference between you and me is night and day and just to be clear that does not make me better nor worse than any other transsexual.

I am happy your wife is understanding enough to live in a lesbian relationship. I am happy you were able to "fight" this crap off until you were successful as a man and financially able to "decide" then was the time to go all the way. It is nice to have that convenience of the male privilege for most of your adult life and then the ability to be a girl at the end.

You may or may not have been born transsexual. I have no clue either way but it seems to em you made pragmatic decisions. The only question I would have is does your wife enjoy sex as a lesbian as much as she did as the wife of a man?

I am sure she does. Let me guess. All the girls love you and accept you as one of the girls and all that crap.

You are just another convenient transsexual.

Anonymous said...

While I can extend some sympathy and even empathy to those who feel forced to supress their urges to transition and exert control over themselves due to pressure of circumstances, I do feel it necessary to point out some rather telling points and errors in the rhetoric of both Sara and Dawn. However first let me say categorically that if as individuals you have found peace I am genuinely happy for you.

Now as expected here is the "but" The very fact that you have been able to exert that control over your feelings and desires illustrates very clearly the nature of the source of your condition. Most of the verifiable research done in this field indicates that original conclusions founded in the late fifties early sixties have been proven to be quite accurate. Where your conditions can be controlled by force of will however painful it may be to those who endure there are circumstances where more severe cases simply did not survive in situations very similar to yours Dawn and Sara. It would be cruel to say they were weaker willed in any way than you Dawn and Sara because in similar circumstances these girls simply died by their own actions.
This may not be politically correct to state but I will say it anyway; it is most unlikely that a greater percentage of transexuals are homosexual than the general population since the very nature of transsexuality means that the brain and the sense of self identity is female.It is a sad statistical fact that a great many transsexuals even in today's permissive society do not make it to their teenage years. The majority of therapists in practise today will tell you that the vast majority of their patients even those for whom they eventually write surgery letters are not in fact transsexual in the original sense of the term.
Personally I belive there are far more transsexuals in the world than most people believe but there are far, far less than most transsexuals believe there are.
So Personally Sara and Dawn like Elizabeth I sincerely wish you well but I do not believe you endure transsexuality.

Cassandraspeaks

Dawn1257 said...

Elizabeth,

Because of the limitations on length of comments in your blog, I have split this up into parts of what will fit. I hope that you will not be like some who would stifle debate and not allow for dialog. So, I would appreciate it if we can put this up in it's entirety.

Oh, I read your last paragraph. I read the entire banter, in fact. What I take away from it is exactly what I knew you would get to. You and others like yourself have a really twisted jealousy in which you make presumptions of some form of privilege. To be fair, you're not the only group that feel and express such a mis-given assumption. The hierarchy of the transgender political machine use that philosophy likewise. Honestly, where and how you see another person's life as having been privileged when you know absolutely not one thing about it, it's amazing! Accuse me of having lived comfortably in order to gain as much as possible (as a man) until I can conveniently make accommodations and “decide” to do this? How completely egotistical and anti-egalitarian can one individual be? Elizabeth, you know absolutely nothing about what my life was like, is like or what it will be like from here on. You know not one thing in where I came from to where I am today. Yet you so freely play the “male privilege” card. Truly, that's as tiring as playing the race bating card in politics! We really ought to be able to get past that without resorting to such a low and unprovable level of debate.

However, for your edification, I will offer you my defense.

I grew up on the “other side of the tracks” as they say when you think of small towns. You know the family who barely scraped out a living and for who's kids, their moms made their clothes? The same side of town where because your family didn't have the “right” name meant getting a good paying position anywhere in the vicinity was pretty much a non-starter. The members of my family had to work their collective asses off to get out of the gutter. NOTHING was ever handed to us on the proverbial 'silver platter'. I wonder where the privilege was at in that?

Yes, I worked my ass off too. Right alongside my wife. We own our own business. Retail. Yet, I nor my wife ever in the thirty years of it, never 'rubbed' shoulders with the 'big boys' for favors. We both actually despise that form of business growth and disingenuous self aggrandizement. While, after transition, there were customers who felt that patronizing a transexual's (and her wife's) enterprise was unseemly, yet most of my customer base have been very supportive and do try to understand. I don't make an issue of having a transexual history with anyone. Some (very few really) did ask about what it all meant. But, since their first experience with the “new me”, they still see that I have the same business ethics from before and it allows them to continue to patronize the establishment. New customers? I've never had one even ask a question or make a supposition. Nor do I make any attempt to bring it up in conversation. Now, I have had the local competition make issue out of it. They try to get customers to think I must be somehow unreliable and deceiving them in someway. Although, these tactics have not had significant effect. This is the only time some customers will even make a mention about my past. Usually by them explaining to me that it really is none of their, or my competition's business. So, most honest people look past these crude attempts at discretization and proceed on in business with me anyway.

Dawn1257 said...

Recently, (about a year ago now) I have been honored with an invitation to join our local Kiwanis club. You know, they're the one's that do all that volunteer work for underprivileged kids? Kind of like where I came from originally? And, yes for the most part they like me. But, they like me for who I am. Not who I was. They recognize that I am a woman with a transexual past. There's no escaping that. Yet, I don't talk about it and they don't ask! Simply, it's never been a point of conversation. Even though many of them within the group knew me from when I was trying to be a man. Of course you'll probably look at this as some twisted form of privilege. But, when will you see it for what it is? I have paid my dues in society and EARNED my right to participate. No body ever gave me a damned thing!

Oh yeah, about that “decide”ing thing in doing this? I never decided to do any such thing. I finally had to embrace who I am. I had no choice in the matter. Over the course of sharing our lives together, and after two suicide attempts (the first having the hammer pulled back on a pistol and pointed at my head, kneeling at the foot of my bed and, having just prayed to God for forgiveness, my wife walked in just before I pulled the trigger. It took her two hours to talk me out of using that gun. Later, the second attempt; since there weren't anymore guns for me to play with, I tried to suffocate myself. Once again she found me after I'd blacked out and saved my pathetic life.), I had to come clean with her about what the real problem was with me. She is a remarkable woman (huge understatement). She recognized after attending years of therapy with me that this is who I was and am. We came to the acceptance of un-avoidability together. This is not what I 'wanted' in my life. This is who I am.

BTW, the sex life my wife and I have and enjoy together was never anyone's business before my transition and it is none of your or any others business still!

I've met other H b.s.'ers like you. I was told by them the same b.s. That in order for this to work, and if I was a true transexual, I would walk away from everything in order to make it work. I told them the same as I tell you. NO, I don't! I made a life time commitment to my wife and I will live up to that commitment. She is the one who made a choice in this. She chose to stay with me, and stand with me still. She didn't have too. But, here she is! As well, I grew up in this town. My wife and I together created everything we have (which still ain't all that much). But, what we do have is ours! Why the hell should I have to run away and live a stealth existence (which is just as fake as trying to live as a man)? I'll be damned first, before I'll jeopardize my wife's welfare or mine any further by walking away just to “qualify” by your ridiculous standards as a “true transexual”. I don't need your silly-ass approval and I damned sure won't ask for it! And, if I may make an assessment, those who walk away from a life commitment willingly, probably never could stay in commitment for anything they ever tried to do. It's the easy way out.

Dawn1257 said...

Whether or not you and others of your ilk regard me to be a “true transexual” is meaningless to me. And, for the record, I am a woman with a transexual history. What bothers me though is what your doing and misrepresenting to others who have not yet found the strength inside to confront and deal with who they know themselves to be, yet are reading the diatribe of b.s you offer, rather demand for them, to qualify. Some of these people do not have the fortitude to withstand your directive attitude.

What you actually represent by being as noninclusive and totalitarian-ish as you are, is not a lot different than the fundamentalist religious fascists that dominate the extreme right of the political spectrum. You both see the world as much, much too black and white. There is “only this way and no other”. Both you and them are just as negative and unwilling toward letting others simply live out their lives in the least judged way they can. Frankly, it escapes me as to why you and they feel the necessity to do so. In the end though, I'm happy. What are you? A sad, pathetic, displeased and poor example of whom you ought to be? Or, are you happy and secure enough in allowing for a difference in others that is not quite in alignment with yourself? In other words, can you simply live and let live?

Elizabeth said...

Dawn,

Because I do not underst6and you does not mean I wish any ill will or harm on you or your family. Quite the contrary actually.

I fully expect you to believe what you do. In your own mind you are immediately a woman because you purchased a vagina. I do wonder why suddenly at such an advanced age suicide suddenly became an option for you. Does seem quite convenient and does fit the narrative therapists like to hear.

I am sure you will be happy for a while with your decision but it does beg the question that not one of the individuals like you will ever answer and it is simple. Obviously your wife is now comfortable as a lesbian in a lesbian relationship. How is that possible when she was a heterosexual woman when you were married?

I know, I know, you wanted to tell her and you always knew you should have been a girl and all the other good stuff you memorized but the wife is the real question. I guess for pure love see decided to turn lesbian and just a little clue you typically male heterosexual transvestite. When they came up with "for better or for worse" your worse was NOT anything anyone thought about.

It is easy for the heterosexual transvestite that cannot get a bigger buzz out of dressing to morph into a pseudo transsexual where they fool themselves into believing they are transsexual and then to convince the wife their is the convenient bee-sting, sudden feminization, or the sudden urge to commit suicide because it was "just too much".

I would ask you what was just too much but I am sure you have a pat learned answer down pat. If you think anyone looks at you and understands the bizarre scenario you attempt to pass of as something predictable or even representative of transsexuals then you believe your own fantasy.

In the case of your poor wife it was obviously for "better or for lesbian". I am betting you still get the strap-on.

Dawn1257 said...

Elizabeth,

Once again, you provoke a long response. Too long for your allowed comments. I appreciate that you indulge me in accommodating space.

I'll tell you one thing about me that a LOT of people have noticed in my attitude these days. People like you that love the attempted goading of another, laughing at them as they fly into a fit of outlandish rage in response to such condescending tripe. In my younger, more angry at the world, and not knowing why, life, it would have been GAME ON!

Not so today, though. You are really a piece of work! I'll give you that!

You seemingly have a fascination with other peoples sex lives. That's curious.........but, not something I wish to engage you with. That part you can keep to yourself. Please? I've already explained once. What our relationship was before, we kept private to ourselves, and that will continue to be. It is not open to discussion. Never has been and never will be. How she sees herself is not something I have liberty to discuss. If you ever get to know her (doubtful) and have the 'nads' to ask; go ahead, make her day (sorry Clint).

I offer to you, pity, Elizabeth. There's something missing in your existence that is eating at your core. Your directing that misgiving to people that have done you no harm. Attempting to 'disqualify' this group from your apparently “private” little club; you've made a past time at. At their expense in whatever sense of adjusting emotionally to a very difficult medical condition that they might be, or have been able to accomplish. Whatever sense of pleasure you wish to derive from this twisted little game really is devilish. Shame upon you, Elizabeth. You should be a better person than that.

That is as much judgment as I will impart upon you.

Within your chiding commentary response, I get a sense you wish to hear (know) more. Okay, I'll give a little more.

You assert that I “always knew I was a girl trapped in a mans body”. And yes on the surface that seems to be a reasonably 'pat' answer many of us give as explanation when asked. Not so with me. I never, not ever did I tell my wife that. She'll vouch for that! I told you that I said to her (my then soon to be wife) as much as I knew at the time about how I felt. I'd never heard of Christine Jorgensen or transexuals of any description. I'd never heard of transvestites. You see, when I grew up I wasn't granted access to pornography, nor did I have a chance to visit libraries un-escorted. So checking out lurid books, and/or information (if there was any) on topics such as this was impossible for me. My childhood was really very, very sheltered. At times it was peppered with zealous religious following. But, I cannot attribute to that so much in the avoidance of figuring out who I was. It really comes down to one very simple fact. I didn't have time. I had no time to dwell on such a subject. Or, for that matter, my own personal internal feelings of any sort. From a very young age (about nine years old) I was expected, and at times demanded to work (see my previous comment to figure this one out). Even when I entered high school, my free time was very, very regulated. I wanted so much to play tennis in high school. It wasn't to be. It was demanded and needed of me to work and help the family get by. Extra curricular activities were always seen as a luxury. Of which there wasn't any in our house. The first time I was EVER to have free time to just do anything I wanted to, was after I entered the U.S. Air Force. And if you know anything about how much free time one gets in any service. It really ain't that much, girl!

Dawn1257 said...

Yet, through-out my life. I did have this feeling of, uummm................inadequacy. That's the best term I had for it. I had no idea what it really meant to me. In whatever free time I could find, I had to make the most of it. I had friends. Most were girls. I didn't understand about why boys liked playing so rough. I didn't like it. I knew I was attracted to females (duhh!). But, it was more than that. Yes, I liked them as girlfriends. But, I liked being with them. I loved being involved in girl chat. When they talked about boys, I would go silent though (again, go back to my previous comment to understand why).

One day, a cousin (whom was my favorite) wanted to go to her girlfriends house. Normally I would just naturally tag along if allowed by mom. Mom wasn't there that day. Grandmother was though. My cousin pitched a fit about me going with her. I didn't have the slightest in understanding why. She kept saying “it's just for girls”. After a while, my grandmother took me aside, grabbed me by the upper arm and proclaimed “You, are a boy! Damn it! You go out and play with the boys!” Let me tell you. When that lady spoke there was no such thing as back talk, 'cause the next thing coming was a hickory switch pulled off the tree in the back yard and laid against your backside!

So, at that point I gained an understanding. Yes there was this kinship with girls that I held. It felt like me. But, OBVIOUSLY that was the wrong way to feel. If I was going to feel that way and try to pursue it, it meant pain. Lots of it! So, I internalized. It was something I did not fully grasp. I had no one I felt comfortable in talking to about it. But hell, I wouldn't have even known what to begin with in saying to anyone! Later in life though, carrying this ”anger” around would nearly cost me my life at another's hand. THAT was stupid, and it was my fault.

Elizabeth, I've condensed, obviously, a lot of detail. However, it is consistent and 100% accurate. It's not memorized, nor planned. Sometimes you have to take people at face value. This is me. It took me forty plus years to get it all figured out. Did I make mistakes? Of course. Did I interrupt and alter others lives? Oh yeah! Do I have guilt for that? Tons of it! Can I make up for it? Likely not. Yet, I will stay committed as long as she wishes to have me stay so.

I wish that there was an easy way to get you and others to understand. We DO love each other. Actually, my wife and I are still IN love with each other. There's a distinct difference between the two concepts, btw! I've heard this term passed about and until recently I hadn't given it much passing thought. But, I guess we really are soul mates (if there is such a thing). It doesn't matter that we're both female. We just fit each others lives so well that we cannot bear the thought of not having each others company at the end of the day. We don't have but one friend outside our marriage that we even socialize with! And when we socialize, we do so all together usually. Shoot, we even worked together at one point for nearly eighteen years. Try that with your spouse! Live together, raised a family together, and work together, and play together. 24/7 Baby! For nearly eighteen years. No bullshit, just fact! That only ended when she felt the need to do something different than just our little business venture. So, she has her own career now. I am not holding her back in any way!

Dawn1257 said...

So, if you feel you must. Go ahead. Try to tear that apart with your twisted ill-gotten logic. But, at the end of the day, girl, I'm going home to my wife and share the experiences of the day with each other over a cocktail, or a glass of wine. Which ever suits our fancy.

And, yes I am a woman with a transexual past. Never have been and never will be a “transvestite”. Not that there's anything wrong with that if that's what a person is. It's just not me. Have a wonderful day, Elizabeth!

p.s. Oh yeah! One last thing. Those suicide attempts. Those were late in life attempts. I have always fought off the thought of suicide from a very young age. Granted I made no attempts in my young life. But, then I didn't recognize the guilt inside that I realized much later on existed as a result of what a hoax of a ma

Elizabeth said...

@Dawn

Wow, I actually do laugh at you as you fly into a rage over trying to justify your tripe. As for the "nads" to ask your wife a question I seriously doubt you would allow her to say a word and to put it simply your wife and her conversion to the lesbian side of the fence is the insane part of this entire fantasy that you attempt to eloquently paint but fail miserably at. Who the hell is Clint?

I actually directed nothing at anyone directly Dawn. This post was about my just not being able to understand some things about what happens in the "new transsexualism" once all the information was out there about the narratives of those that fought this painful nightmare. You are the one that took it personally. Like all men anything that questions your decisions must be attacked. I find it amusing.

In the equivalent of two blog posts you have not presented one iota of evidence that indicates you were ever troubled with transsexualism.

Just a little clue so you can get the narrative correct. You cannot push this into the deep folds of your brain. It is simple. You either are or you are not transsexual. There is no in-between. There are shades and gray areas between the categories but telling me you thought something was "inadequate" and not "knowing" you wanted to be a girl just makes your story even more of a fantasy.

It sounds to me like you just decided at some late age in life that this was what you were and it came out of the blue. This crap permeates your soul and very existence and is not anything you can push away or not "ever once" think about as a child.

A transsexuals brain is feminized at birth and ranges from complete psycho-sexual inversion to something slightly less pervasive but just as horrible if not worse in its own way but everyone knows at some point, no later than teens, that they should be a girl.

My logic is not twisted and ill-gotten and honestly I have no ill will towards you or anyone similar to you.

In typical bull sees red flag, you are the bull by the way, you charged into this post screaming "I am a woman" because I say I am. I never questioned you nor do actually believe you are lying because at some point your fantasy better be reality because in your case it is not growing back.

You took it as a personal insult that I do not understand you. You enjoyed making it personal which is fine but you must expect retaliation but but being the good man you are there is no way you can let a lesser being, a woman as in me, get in the last word. Like most men you just have never learned we women never shut up when challenged.

Unfortunately for you I really do not have to say much about this post. It seems you never cross-dressed or anything like that but had sudden onset of transsexualism late in life. That is a total bullshit in IMHO.

Dawn1257 said...

Elizabeth,
I'll try to keep this short so that it doesn't become a “blog”.

As I said before, you really are a piece of work! You stated, “You took it as a personal insult that I do not understand you”. I feel the need to remind you that you are the one who made some rather pointed statements. Among them:
“I will never understand how some late transitioners wife can stay with him but I think I have their reasoning. If the wife has a career she is probably gone. “
“I will never understand why someone posts as Anonymous and believes they have credibility but then they are obviously fearful of letting anyone know who they really are.”
“I will never understand how a parent abandons their children.”

Then you follow up with this statement; “I am not sure I want to understand much of this either.” If this is reflects your true feeling, then why even make such statements?

Personal? Yes, how could I not? After all, you made the statements. They beg a response. And, the statements fit my profile. So, yes, I take them personal.

Insult? No. I merely had a wish to offer you my perspective of your misunderstandings. I gave you honest, pointed and accurate answers. You respond in kind with chiding, hateful, bigoted replies. As I said in my first comment/blog what you represent is not any different than the uber-religious fundamentalist nut-jobs that dominate the extreme right lunacy of politics in this country (at least right now). They want to dictate what is right and what is wrong from an extremely narrow field of view. Mostly based upon a book of fantasy and myth. They have self-appointed their ideology as that of a supreme calling.

One thing is fundamentally clear to me. You wish to remain in your hatered. Your pitiful mind won't be changed, because your ignorance runs too deep. You state that you wish no ill upon anyone? Then why call me a man? Why call people who know within themselves who they really are (transexual), derogatory names? What gives you the right to tear other peoples own self-understanding down in an attempt to discredit? In other words, who died and made you God? Again, you seem have a superiority complex, very similar in nature to those religious fundies that I spoke of previously. Not all together a very feminine trait, if you ask me. In fact I wonder. Are you really a person with a transexual history at all? What evidence do you have? How are you going to prove to me and others except by your spoken word that you are who you say you are?

Dawn1257 said...

You fit a mold, Elizabeth. One cast by Dr. Benjamin. I've seen the appointment card on your profile page. Doesn't prove a thing other than you had an appointment. I could just as easily say, in the same light as yourself, 'you have the narrative down well', but where's your proof that you are who you think you are? For all I know you're a cis-gendered woman that has a hate filled agenda to play out against an extremely vulnerable group of people. And this is your venue in which to attempt to destroy them. Personally and physically.

So, you do wish to cause harm. The only thing is dear, you can't harm me. Don't even think for a moment that what you say with such condescension has a negative effect upon me. Laugh at me all you want! You're not the first and likely not to be the last. I just simply read what you write, and my assessment is simply this:

You're like the carney at a county fair. You keep changing and moving the goal for any one who tries to find the marble under the cups you shuffle around on the table. All the while the marble is really in your hand. The cups are empty. There is no goal that can be reached by anyone you disagree with that will help you understand the statements that you spoke of in your blog post. Because like the carney who never really intends to give a person a good chance of winning, you have no intent to learn nor allow for the true possibility that there really is more to this transexual existence than what you learned from “Harry”.

Just remember, As great a person as he was and the wonderful research and theories he provided. They were just that; theories. Because he was a great champion of transexual people doesn't for one second mean that he had it all figured out and that there are no other alternatives. In fact he stated such in his book, The Symphony of Sexes. From his writings he seemed to be a very compassionate person. He made a point to say that his are only theories and that more research needs to be done. He didn't appear to be unequivocal in his determination about the groups and types system that he developed. As such, neither should you.

Enjoy your life.

Elizabeth said...

@Dawn,

Why must I understand you? Do you need justification for your actions? I will never understand any of the items I listed because I came from a different time and a totally different place than you or your ilk.

I like some other kids I knew had no CHOICE. We either fought for it or we would have been dead. You made a choice and that choice is your burden or maybe in your case a gift but simply by stating it never really entered your mind you tell anyone with half a brain that was born transsexual you were never transsexual.

It is so convenient nowadays with the DSM. Late transitioners only have to be dysphoric for several years to qualify and that is a Blanchard and Bailey thing. It makes this a mental condition and not a medical condition from birth.

Now I get the poor mes from you. I have no intention of harming you. I wish you no ill will but and it is a big BUT, I find you and your narrative "unusual" and a detriment to the attempts by many to have transsexualism classified as a medical condition.

It is almost like you are trying to tell me you are a heterosexual man yet you are also a woman. If we truly are girls at birth and then women then statistically we should map within reason to the norms of the sexual preferences of women if this is a medical condition.

Harry was a wonderful and kind man but even his views changed over time. By the late 70's he knew too many people were getting surgery and thus a lot of non-transsexuals or certainly those Type IV non-surgical transsexuals were and even Harry was fooled by Rene Richards.

Harry was kind but Harry was not afraid to say no to a patient nor was he afraid to get after you if you did something silly. I find it hard to believe Harry would have accepted you as transsexual or would have believed this many were lesbians. It did not fit the norm he found in working with us for 30+ years in NYC and SF.

Harry knew a certain percentage would be lesbian and it did not bother him one bit as it does not bother me. By the late 70's and early 80's he knew their were too many lesbians.

There was some blurring of lines in the Type's Harry felt existed but there was no blurring between 5 and 6 but it must be emphasized that the vast majority of his patients were Type V that were classified operative transsexual.

You fit the bill as a true transvestite that morphed into Type IV and managed to get surgery. Most transvestites are heterosexual men and thus like women. Kind of amazing how most late transitioners like yourself fit that designation perfectly isn't it?

LazyJay H said...

If you cannot understand something, you should perhaps avoid passing judgment on it?

Jussie Hay said...

I don't know why any of us are really wasting our time on this garbage. I'm not a late transitioner by any means and I totally disagree with the post and the idiocy of the person who wrote it.

How any transsexual who has been through the struggles we have all been through can spout this crap is beyond me. You obviously don't truly understand transsexualism. I only hope some vulnerable late transitioner doesn't read this and take what you say to heart. It's poison.

I hope your proud of your efforts

Jussie Hay

Elizabeth said...

@Jussie Hay

Oh please give me a break. Some poor late transitioner that has married a woman, fathered children, and lived as a man for 40-50 years is vulnerable?? You are dreaming.

It is my blog and if you do not like it don't read it. I am not a fan of either the term "trans" or "transgender" so you can add that to your list.

I know a heck of a lot more about transsexualism than you ever will and I know enough to understand that old transvestites make bad transsexuals yet consume the resources that should go to the children.

LazyJay H said...

"I know a heck of a lot more about transsexualism than you ever will "

Oh dear. How to lose a thread on your own blog.

Elizabeth said...

@Lazy Jay

The "old transvestites make bad transsexuals" line hit home??

I have worked with young transsexuals for 40 years so yes I understand transsexualism or at least what was initially defined as transsexual better than some idiot that could not come to grips with it until they are considerably older.

Your pal is still pre-operative and by definition clueless like we all were pre-operative. Funny how older men seem to think they know it all when they decide to "become" transsexual.

Now back to your fantasy land where up is down and down is up and transsexuals and the transgendered are all the same and should be one happy little family.