Saturday, October 30, 2010

Why I am angry by Aria Blue. Give me a list please!!





Well I read it but I am still unsure why she is angry but there is one thing for sure it is OK to be angry if there is a good reason to be angry and you explain your position clearly and honestly with facts.




Why I am Angry by Aria Blue

In your fifth paragraph you state:

When I say I am angry about a specific list of things, that’s actually what I am angry about.  There is no secret agenda at work here, I am not going hormonal.  I really, truly am pissed right off at gay politics and the lies told about transsexualism by the GLB-Tg. 

Well, can I have a copy of that list? Maybe I am wrong and you are right. I am never afraid to admit  an error. Just a simple enumerated list will do. Post it on your own blog if it makes you feel safer. Have one of your friends post it over here as a comment. No generalities but specifics and reasons.  I am betting we have agree on more than we both realize. 

Everyone is invited to comment or even list complaints but note if they are yours or Aria's.

We agree on Sandeen as a starter.

40 comments:

Anne said...

It would be nice to see some actual discourse on the issues.

Anonymous said...

You're devoting a whole blog to pouring scorn on Aria Blue but she's the one full of hate!!

radicalbitch said...

http://ariablues.blogspot.com/

You are almost the same...........

Amanda said...

Personally, I think this blog is starting to get a little too anti-Aria.

Yes, Aria is spreading hate, blah, blah, blah but what she is trying to do is not necessarily bad. Calling her out because she is not willing to discuss ideas or give you the time of day is understandable but ultimately, it benefits no one.


Personally, I think that direct confrontation has limited usefulness. If you want better discussions, build a place where this can happen. Show that Aria is wrong by sending a better message not just verbally pounding her.

Deena said...

Well..... I just checked back and read this "back and forth. Then I checked Aria's site. Can somebody tell me what this is really all about?

Anne said...

OK. Here is what I think is going on. Aria has some pretty strong positions, some of which are valid and some of which are not. I believe that Aria's refusal to entertain differing view points or alternative approaches by stifling discourse on her blog is what has provoked Elizabeth's ire.

I see Elizabeth's last post, not so much as a continuation of her "rain of pain" directed at Aria but as yet another invitation to if not defend her position, at least IDENTIFY it.

Elizabeth said...

@Anonymous

Less than 1/3 of the posts are about Aria and primarily about her view on certain subjects she is to be blunt uninformed on and the fact she promotes hate, homophobia, and is a complete intellectual coward because she will not defined her positions. Everyone is expected to accept her opinion as fact. I do not and have asked her to explain certain opinion and she has declined except for one comment where she went on her normal rant filled with generalities and accusations against those opposed to her point of view.

Elizabeth said...

@radicalbitch

I have no idea who that is and I actually agree with Aria in her opinion and of Sandeen.

I notice you failed to list any positions but then I expect nothing less from you.

Glad to see your broomk landed safely!!!

Elizabeth said...

@Amanda

This post is not anti-Aria and I have disagreements with Aria because of her comments but it would be nice if she clarified her position on issues because to be honest she rarely says the same thing twice with the same meaning or in the same context unless it is the position her enemies are cross-dressers, she is the only one that knows what a transsexual is, it is a gay conspiracy witin the GLBT movement aimed at her womanhood, etc. etc. etc.

What would you suggest instead of direct confrontation? She denies access to her blog by moderation and deletion of posts. By sending a better message by necessity one needs to contradict Aria and that does not sit well with her sycophants.

I contradict some of her posts because she bends facts to fit her position or simply ignores the facts. Personally I post access to the information and let others decide on their positions but by necessity that involves questioning Aria.

She has every right to her opinion as I do to mine but you or anyone else can tell me I am wrong while that is not the case on Aria's sight.

Sophie said...

There's one suggestion I could make that you might find an interesting possibility.
If Aria won't talk, and frankly I'd see that as down to her inability to follow reasoned arguments that she can't wave away, then use her posts yourself.
For example her 'argument of the beard' post. All that it's really about is Aria getting defensive about her pet definitions of what a transsexual woman is compared to a TG and using as a straw man the notion that seeing an underlying spectrum prevents definition. It doesn't but it does present HER with problems since she never wants to come up with a full definition of what a TS is or justify except by suspect and selective references to past studies.
But it would be useful, in considerations of politics if nothing else, to have some distinctions between TS and TG for adults anyway.
For myself, I'd simply put that dividing line at taking hormones to the point of no longer having male genitalia capable of sexual functioning. If there's a good argument that long term cd's should be categorised differently at that stage, I probably wouldn't agree but would find it interesting to engage in argument on that point.
So if you did a post on that subject, pointing out Aria's irrationality if you will, but actually putting the issues in open non doctrinaire form in terms of your own views...
I do feel that would be a good thing in itself and also aid in putting more sensible positions to Aria's extremist elitism ; the medical model needs better spokeswomen open to debate so that people like her are suitably marginalised.

Amanda said...

Liz,

The best solution I know to making Aria obsolete is just posting better information and allowing for more honest discussion.

It is definitely valid to bring up points that Aria has discussed and say that I disagree or agree with this or not that and make things more open for general discussion. It probably stretches things to appear to get to the point where you are constantly calling Aria out. This should be about truth and not egos.

I would love to be more of an online presense. Given that I am currently struggling through the finances and keeping the jobs needed to transition in a very tough economy, I have had a lot of other concerns. The thing is.. My life would have been much better if people had understood things differently.

One thing I think is missing.. All the sites I see are not overly non-TG friendly. Aria may have trouble with T being in LGBT but I have a lot of friends who are gay men, etc and I see a lot of commonalities in the things I went through as a kid and the things they go through. We are not the same but I think we need to celebrate differences and similiarities and try to bring more normal people online in a way where we don't come across as threatening.

Espejos said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Elizabeth, your blog appeared one day after Aria mentioned the Person & Oversey articles. You've posted 29 times - one post is an introduction and another is simply about your comment policy. That leaves 27 posts. 9 of those posts are directed at Aria - exactly a third. And others - such as the one about Person - indirectly concern Aria. I'd call that a tad excessive. You're really rather obsessed, aren't you?

Well might Deena ask what's really going on. Are we supposed to believe that someone got corrected back in the mists of time and now, what, 30 or 40 years later, starts looking around the internet and the only thing that upsets her - upsets her enough to begin a blog - is the attitude of Aria Blue? Seriously?

Of course something else is going on here...

As for those who want Aria to "clarify" her position... she's written dozens of posts on her own blog and made dozens of comments on other people's. So why should she come here to repeat the same to a bunch of people who aren't shy of declaring they can't stand her? You're simply asking her to set herself up for more abuse.

radicalbitch said...

Elizabeth.... my positions are literally an open book. Clearly you found my personal webpage since that is the only place I have a picture online for you to call me fat and ugly. You showed your hand when you did that.

My personal webpage has articles about my positions on trans issues going back to 97, my blog has entry after entry about my positions on trans issues. True, I try not to write about that anymore, but the former ones are all there in clear view. I will say you appear to be one angry and nasty piece of work and that is something I have almost never seen in an actual long term postie, ever, and I have had ongoing contact in person (not just the internut) with hundreds of "stealth" women of history over the years.

I don't see a nickels worth of difference between you and the nasty piece of work whose website I linked in my first comment on this thread.

I am a sixty one year old woman with a full figure, many tell me I am attractive. No actual woman has ever said I was ugly. That sort of nastiness seems reserved only for web-women of alleged history such as yourself.

Frankly you come across as a classic abuser.

Elizabeth said...

@Anonymous

OK so now one of Aria's flock comes on as an anonymous poster which is your right on my blog and immediately begins making suggestions that I am not what I seem to be. Have I got that correct?

I have an issue with my scanner but I will post certain documents that provide proof of my past or at least proof of my involvement with Benjamin etc.. I was on the HBS English site for a while and was upset by the hate and homophobia and said some things I regretted because I was actually wrong and that person has posted on here and she knows how badly I felt about it.

I have a good idea who this is but I respect your right to remain anonymous. The Person-Ovesey post came after i started this blog which I started because someone with a blog suggested I do it and it was initially intended to provide things other than contradicting Aria misinformation but Aria posted something about person-Ovesey which irritated me because I was one of the 20 people involved with the study and I know 2 others and she was in error in my opinion.

Aria made a claim that when the Person-Ovesey definition of "primary" was altered later by others it was a transgender conspiracy which everything seems to be. Dr. Person is actually still a friend and I know what the true focus of it was.

I would have simply posted my response and criticism on her blog but it requires I join WordPress which I did not want to do and Aria has a long history of deleting contrary posts and moderating comments critical of her so I decided to use my blog to respond.

Aria made a long comment and as per usual attacked me because that is what she does and made comments about Benjamin that were inflammatory in my mind.

I actually agree with a lot of Aria's positions but I am unclear what some of her complaints are because she basically claims everyone is a cross-dresser and there is some gay male conspiracy. I thought if she could list her issues I might have a better understanding of her positions but that is not going to happen so I will list my opinions on what she is upset about.

Aria getting abuse? Isn't that like claiming a man who beat his wife was abused by his wife because she disagreed with him. She is the abuser.

Elizabeth said...

@radicalbitch

A classic abuser? Wow you are pathetic as usual. I am not interested in your blog because I have zero interest in you other than the fact you want to screw your place of residence out of tax dollars.

It is typical of people like you that you must accuse me of something when I am questioning the opinion of someone. I went to that site an it is sick and anyone that puts a Nazi symbol on any page is beyond wrong plus I have stated many times I agree with Aria on her position on Sandeen.

You accused me of being a cross-dresser , a transvestite, and other things on Aria's blog so you want to get down and dirty and I am not immune to striking back and since you claimed or actually were proud of being a witch/Priestess of some Pagan church so I used a favorite comment from Animal house when Flounder was told going through life fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life son but changed it to fit the Halloween situation and your comments about me.

I love assholes like you. You start the name calling and then you are upset when it comes back at you in spades. You really do not get how pathetic you sound.

I do love how Aria has her pathetic minions supporting her but she fails to show up.

I would suggest you push your master for the truth about herself and not worry about me. I am a woman and not a transsexual woman stuck in the past thinking someone can taker her womanhood away with words.

Like I said yesterday I am glad your broom landed safely after the Halloween witching hour. Keep posting if you like. I need my laugh for the day.

Remember the one about not having as good a life as you because you were a High priestess etc.?

Make sure to get a bone from Aria. All good puppies should get a favor.

Elizabeth said...

@Amanda

When I reached NYC at 23 I was befriended by a gay man whose apartment was across from mine. He introduced me to his friend and they were kind to me and they were not anti transsexual.

One of them died in the 80's and he was a dear friend. The other is still alive in NYC and a close friend.

Maybe I have gone about contradicting Aria and her paranoia incorrectly but confronting inaccuracies directly is how I was raised.

You will notice her supporters and herself are consistent in the way they attack people that question them but then are upset when they receive it back at them. As my dad said my Welsh temper can get the best of me sometimes but I am far from perfect unlike Aria who is perfection personified and a Saint and a martyr to both herself and her sycophants.

They now come on here and try and question my life because that is what they do. All I will say is Aria should be very careful about what she says regarding some things because they could come back to bite her in her butt.

Sophie said...

@ Anonymous. Curiosity about Elizabeth's motives and history are fair enough. But I don't seem to see you or Aria doing more to back up your own historical credentials. Nor do I see a focus on such issues as particularly helpful ; why Aria et al think it's so meaningful to establish that any questioner has some specific status has usually been to distract from their distaste at engaging in any serious debate.
It's the same as Aria's well worn habit of dismissing any argument she can't deal with as being a 'TG thing'.
If you share Aria's concerns about trolls and sock puppets then I'd suggest a study of Aria's blogs for the latter and her accounts of action at PHB or Bilerico as typical troll diaries.
You assert that Aria is quite clear on her positions. Then why does she come out with those statements to Veronica, that GRS is just a confirmation that's not really necessary if you know you're a woman. Sounds just like Sandeen to me.
And of course Aria seeks to damage others, or simply doesn't see or feel the potential damage she does in every single post she writes. Compared to that, I don't see how Elizabeth is being negative or obsessive in focusing on this boil on the rump of TS and TG alike.

Anonymous said...

Oh, what a load of nonsense.

I'm only going to bother with two things.

One, Elizabeth, you don't need a Wordpress account to post on a Wordpress blog. And you know that because you have already posted before on Aria's blog. You must think we're stupid.

Two, Sophie, you really are stupid if you think Aria believes a transsexual woman doesn't need to have SRS. Can't you read?

Sophie said...

Well, absolutely. But if Aria talks herself of surgery as being simply a confirmation of womanhood for those with some small remaining doubt about their condition, as she did in her last post commenting to Veronica,
one has to wonder exactly what she does when she plays around with the whole notion of womanhood.
Or could it be that she opts to tone down beliefs in favour of showing a benign face to an established blogger in a not too unusual display of arrant hypocrisy?
Maybe, 'anonymous', you should read what she actually said.

Anne said...

YADA, YADA, YADA....

And,,,The ISSUES are.....

Elizabeth said...

@Anonymous

Yes you do have to log in and to do so one has to register with WordPress so you are incorrect. That is how Aria has her blog set up.

I have no interest in registering with WordPress. If you have a WordPress blog like you do then you do not have to log in.

Elizabeth said...

@Anonymous

Does that mean Aria looks at transsexuals that take a long time to get to surgery like she did as less than real transsexuals or people that delay getting surgery like some of her supposed friends or wait 40 years like some of her friends?

Elizabeth said...

Aria does not have to defend herself. All she has to don is clarify things so her positions are clearly defined. I might find more common ground with her.

The problem with Aria and people like her friends is there is no room for differences.

A simple example is I do not believe in abortion but I do not believe I have the right to tell someone they do not have the right to one. Agreeing to disagree usually means people can find common ground and present a possibly more united front on common grounds with delving into attacks where anyone that disagrees is a cross-dresser or gay or something worse.

What I do find absolutely hilarious is clowns like radicalbitch thinks she can call people anything she wants and then gets upset when she gets it back. She could change her name to selfrighteousradicalbitch but I can of doubt she has the attention span necessary to type that name in.

Anne said...

OK Children....Here is an ISSUE.

The FACTS, as I see them, are really quite simple, and clearly beyond dispute. The one simple fact that MUST be agreed upon before their can be ANY constructive dialogue is that THERE IS A CLEAR DIFFERENCE between what Aria and others refer to as the "birth condition" of transexxualism AND the other garden variety gender non-conforming behavior.

Espejos said...
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Anne said...

Who is mad? Oh I forgot, Aria is.

Anne said...

FYI...She actually seems to be getting the message, that HER message, comes through a lot better without all the vitriol.

As I have said from the very beginning, Aria's message holds a great deal of truth.

You all know the address...go have a read.

Anne

Elizabeth said...

I also agree in principle with this post.

Espejos said...
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Anne said...

I am happy to announce that I have again been allowed to comment on Aria's Blog!

Espejos said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Elizabeth said...

June,

Did you expect anything different? I still do not have a list from her or her few followers just a lot of accusations about me which I will end within the next day or so with another post.

There are some on here that recognize the total fraud she really is but I can only concentrate on me for the time being.

I just hope Anne does not fall under the spell of the cult leader.

Liz

Espejos said...
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Elizabeth said...

June,

I have no intention of outing myself. I intend to post an appointment card from Dr. Benjamin and an appointment card for my surgeon Granato plus a copy of my letter confirming surgery with pertinent information blacked out.

I have a transcript from a radio interview I did with Harry and a noted interviewer from 1971 that I might post which was done on NBC radio in NYC that is interesting but other than that my post NYC life is quite safe and those that know don't care because they have never known me as anything but female and those that don't would not believe it if I said I was not.

Have you kept in touch with our mutual friend Charlotte? I received a strange email from her.

Hugs

Liz

Espejos said...
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Anne said...

Not to worry ladies. I may be a reasonable person, but I am no fool.

If Aria is up for reasonable and constructive discourse, I am up for that.

I am not into disparaging or "knocking" people just for the ake of it. Bad ideas and insidious idiocies are open season.

Espejos said...
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Anne said...

What article? Design?

Espejos said...
This comment has been removed by the author.