Monday, October 25, 2010

Answer these questions Aria's friends

These are basically my questions for Aria and her sycophants. Not one of them has answered any of these questions and per usual have tried to make me the problem by accusing me of "picking" on Aria which actually has some truth to it.  I am picking on her but not because I hate her but simply because if one posts something radical or controversial one should be willing to defend that position.

Unfortunately Aria is infallible according to her sycophants and nobody has even broached the subject.  In fact in Aria's only response she brought up her rant on Benjamin and Walinder and has continued to claim it is an attack on her which it actually is now because she simply refuses to be questioned about her belief system or her opinions which are the gospel to her followers.




The 5th question came about because of her latest post.

My wish is that all of you that read this blog would at least try and answer some or all of these questions. I will provide links below to all the relevant sites for research.

1. Do you support Aria's position the the Person-Ovesey study is the definitive study on transsexuals and accurately describes transsexualism or in her view what a "primary" really is which of course is her?

My problem with the study is I was a participant and it was flawed because they were inaccurate in claiming they talked with parents and Dr. Benjamin believed they were wrong because nothing is that black or white.

***added ofr clarity*** Aria believes the correction by others of what was defined priamary and secondary was a transgender plot to  hurt her.

2. Do you support Aria's position that Benjamin is the cause of the existence of the Transgender situation she sees as her enemy because he believed nothing is black-white in the transsexual condition and believed in gray areas or no two transsexuals are the same?

3. Do you support Aria's continual use of snippets from studies like Walinder that distort the actual conclusions of the study and are then proposed as conclusions to support her position?

4. Do you support Aria's inclusion of that sick bastard Canadian Air Force guy as a clear example why transsexuals need to avoid transvestism with the clear indication it is typical transvestite behavior?

And a new one.

5. Do you support Aria's claim that all people who identify as Transgender are therefore gay?


Comments on Person-Ovesey  
More comments on Person Ovesey

The Transsexual Phenomenon by Harry Benjamin

Jan Walinder study


Latest Aria rant



14 comments:

Michelle Marie said...

not sure if you saw my comment on your other post but I could not even get through 2 of the posts I found at Aria. I have a hard time just getting past the "say no to transgender". Maybe I am just not intelligent enough to understand all her technical babbling and scientific data but I have already seen enough to know that it is not worth my time.
I hope that you can let it go soon and just be happy with the wonderful life you seem to have. He/she/it will never change no matter what we all think and I think you are much better off just ignoring her.
Hugs

Anne said...

Hi Liz.

As I mentioned earlier, I am glad that you have brought this particularly hatful and misleading blog to light. However, having highlighted it for what is, as just the rants of a seriously flawed individual using her skills with smoke and mirrors go convince people that ARIA has all the answers, I believe that it may now be time to just ...move on..

As I predicted, her rants, while full of colorful hatefilled rhetoric, are totally lacking in substance and as such should be relegated to the scrape file along with the similarly misleading rants of the likes of sandeen, radicalbitch and m. roberts.

The tragedy is that it is these loadmouth demogagues, on opposing extremes of the issues, that are using their "rules for radicals' to distract, devalidate and dissemble, to drive the narrative to serve their own self importance.

What I would like to hear now is from those very few who have quietly tried to speak from their position of experience. In the less than three years that I have stepped "out of the woodwork, after almost 40 years of just living the life of a relatively 'normal' and reasonably successful and fully integrated woman", I have "met" or encountered on the web no more than five or six long term, post corrected women of history.

I am not talking about the 'professional trannies', or 'know it all "Janey" come latelys. I am talking about women like yourself, who "fixed" what needed fixing and then 'moved on' to live happy, "NORMAL", and productive lives within the mainstream.

I went back to November, 2009, and found the thread on Aria's blog, where I suggested that among the many cross dressers on one particularly popular TG blog, there were REAL PEOPLE struggling with REAL problems, and that I saw no reason to not entertain a dialogue with these folks in an effort to find some way to end the discord and mutually destructive warfare. http://ariablue.wordpress.com/2009/10/12/equivocation/#comments.

The exchange got pretty heated. I will leave it to you to draw your own conclusions.

While the initial attack came from Leigh, she has since apologized, and despite the facts that we have had "words" and various areas of disagreement, I have a great deal of respect for her and her thoughts on this subject.

You see, unlike the many "veterans" of these 'cyber-tranny wars', I am a complete neophyte. I have often said that I am coming from a very "straight fiscally and socially conservative" POV. This is just the life that I have lived for the past forty years, and it has worked for me. Why should I apologize?

In addition to Leigh, and her friend, Susan, (SA-ET), I would also like to hear from "Cassandra Speaks", as she is a woman of history who has compiled a huge resevoir of knowledge and research on this subject. Sadly, because of a similarly horrific assault on her personal integrity, by someone she had considered an ally and a friend, she has pulled her blog and retreated into her very happy an fulfilling, "real life".

From what I have been able to glean from their writtings on these blogs, about the only thing that we have in common is that we were all very much aware of our psycho-sexual disconnect at a very, very early age.

We each got to where we are by very different paths as might be expected from highly creative people from very different backgrounds.

So how about ladies, can we move on?

Anne

Elizabeth said...

@Anne,

This is probably my last post about her unless she does something as sick again as what she said in a post today.

We will see but I am sure she will come after me with her little sycophants. I could not stop laughing when I red the post on Aria's blog where lisalee18wheeler told Aria breathlessly she had left a lisa bomb here which she had not.

Like most of her posts it was incoherent and aimed at getting Aria to praise her Aria which she did.

I have some memorabilia from the old days I will scan in and put on here.

I honestly thought at one time people could have sympathy and understanding for one another. I am not proud of the fact at one time I sort of felt like them on some issues without the hate but I grew up.

I have had transsexual friends die and have buried them when I lived in NYC. I lost a boyfriend at 17 who was my life at the time and watched 3 friends die on camera because people where I worked cut corners and people that hate like this are dangerous.

If they hurt one kid or one person they have hurt one too many.

Anne said...

My unsophisticated impression is that the vast majority of recreational CD's are just that and have no delusions of being "real women". Unfortunately many othrs have bought into this politically motivated construct assembled and conjured up by certain "activists" to legitimize some position which makes "them" the sole purveyors of "truth".

Using this construct, the TG "leadership, like the leaders of the various labor unions like the Teacher's or SEIU, define the narrative and "lead" the unsuspecting and generally disinterested membership to places that really only serve the ends of the leadrship and NOT the membership.

Amanda said...

I think Aria needs to realize that very few problems can be solved with hatred and strong words.

The people I see who are definite cross-dressers and transitioning due it because the pain and trauma of their conditions is not appropriately addressed and not because they really think they are women.

I think it is saner to remove the pain and stigma from lots of parts of the community and then see what people do with their lives rather than label them. People make bad choices when they have had to live lives of shame and fear.

No matter how we chose to define ourselves, we have a responsibility to the next generation to try to make sure they grow up with happier saner lives than the majority of us did. Growing up understanding that we are wrong and evil.. freaks.. it really helps no one. The type of normalization and destruction of people's lives that goes on so some people can feel more comfortable with themselves is a tragedy.

Espejos said...
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Espejos said...
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Espejos said...
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Deena said...

In my experience it is very easy to end up in a "war of words" using text as a media because it is very easy to misread what the other person is saying. Text offers not cadence, tone, inflection or other nuances of in depth communication. Contact in person is, to me, the best way to get to understand another person and voice such as via phone is a distant second but still much better than text.

I admire Aria's combativeness against those who seek to extend the transgender umbrella over everyone. I share her concern that the general public is being inundated with rather skewed messages. I believe it will, however, be decades before the general public cuts through all the noise. Yet at the same time Jane Q Public has little difficulty discerning a man from a woman even today.

And that is the very simple reason I prefer to spend most of my time living instead of engaging virtual people on the web.

Anne said...

@June.

I know very little about Conway and Cantoneli. I have always wondered why Conway seemed to smpathetic to the TG Agenda. Cantonelli it seems is an Autumn Sandeen on steroids.

Sophie said...

@ Deena. We're not talking subtle textual analysis here. If Aria repeated much of her normal material in the UK, she'd be charged with hate speech and prosecuted as a criminal.
Now maybe we can argue free speech issues, but it's clear that she uses what many countries would call hate speech.
Transgender may be trying for too large an inclusive umbrella ; Aria wants an umbrella frame with only a penny sized fabric to cover her chosen. Of the two neither are really satisfactory. It's just that the former doesn't cause that much harm.
And if you really want to change that, I believe you have to do that via medical condition as the main narrative.
In order to do that you have to abstract wisely from past explorations and discard the social performative elements, eg Aria's favourites like shame, as critical elements. And then you have to do the work with an open mind ;looking at how neurological investigation might tie into our narratives and past theory for example.
Can you truly believe her to be a fit and proper person to be let within a mile of such an enterprise, given the way her prejudices already bury inconvenient facts to her grand design. Truly ?

Anne said...

"People make bad choices when they have had to live lives of shame and fear." -Amanda

"Carla Antonelli never had change of sex surgery, and not being discontented with her male genitals, has no desire to ever go all the way. For years she has claimed to be a transsexual and has always veered away from the truth. After she fought for a new law to change everyone's sex without having to actually physically do it, she was the first transgender in Madrid, Spain to have her sex changed on paper. The transgendered people over there love it, now touting how a vagina doesn't make the woman, and that transsexuals were developed through upbringing." -Espejos

I see a very dangerous progression here, and I believe this is what Aria battles and rages against. My problem is not the veracity of her message, it is the angry, viscious, self-centered manner of delivering that message that defeats and diminishes the impact of the message.

It has always appeared to me, (from my earliest encounters with people that I met during that period of time of my immediate post surgical recovery), that there were people getting surgery, seemingly, IMO, for the wrong reasons.

I believe that it is these people, including some extremely effemminate homosexuals who might have "issues" accepting their sexual orientation AND fetishistic CD's who also find "legitimacy" in self identifying as TS that are seeking and undergoing SRS for the wrong reasons, AND...those that do not, that are still finding shelter, companionship and succor under the ubiquituos "TG umbrella".

As June says.."This is just ME, thinking".

Anne

Leigh said...

This whole argument is ridiculous.

Whether you agree with it or not, what Aria writes holds a lot of truths. I am not talking about the various academic references, the writings of so called experts, I am speaking of the fundamental truth which Aria speaks to.

You can call it what you may, homophobia, elitism, transphobia, whatever, but the fact is that most of what she says is true. Transgender grew out of social interaction on the internet, mostly comprised of crossdressing males playing girly games in cyberspace. It is the Internet that is responsible for the growth of transgenderism. It is the internet that allowed people to explore their fantasies, and just as in any game, the natural progression of rank and status is what led us to where we are now where everyone professes to hold the coveted title of transsexual, or intersexual.

Nobody wants to be a crossdresser. Its like being a red shirt in star trek, a private in a war game. There are no crossdressers today for the same reason there are no losers in sports today. Every entrant is a winner. Its the way the world has become.

Then along comes someone like Aria and tries to debunk the idea that everyone who says they are a transsexual, IS a transsexual ... well she needs to be put in her place! I mean how dare she say such things? .. my god she might hurt someone's feelings, tread on someone's toes.

I say good for her... If I had more time I would probably start my own blog and say the same damn thing.

And to those of you that disagree with aria, well thats your right to do so, but it doesn't stop the fact that a huge number amongst the Transgender are made up of crossdressing individuals, many of which are closeted gay men, who feel it is their right to claim themselves as transsexed when in fact they are not and never will be. Truth is rarely heard in a world where speaking it is highly discouraged.

So good for you Aria .. Keep up the good fight


Oh and Hi ANNE !!! :)

Elizabeth said...

@Leigh

She does talk about a lot of things I agree with her on and did you clear it with her that she only holds a "lot of truth" and not the complete truth so help Aria??

I have no idea how the transgender "community" actually came about because from 1990 through 2005 I spent a lot of time traveling the world as a Consultant for the US Navy and the Department of Defense and half the time I just wanted to get home alive to my husband who thought I was nuts for doing it since he spent 20+ years as a Navy fighter pilot.

As for Aria my contention is if you post something be willing to defend it. There are ways to say things without attempting to degrade those you are criticizing and we all fall into that trap occasionally but Aria lives in that zone permanently.

You need to remember that truth is relative and depends on how it is presented, who says it, and how it is presented. I think if you looked at T-Central you will see a lot of people saying they are cross-dressers and are not infringing on what is transsexual.

Anyone that disagrees with Aria is labeled not transsexual or worse. Those of us that are long term post are demeaned somehow since the only way she can defend herself is by demeaning, banning, or destroying any protagonists that dare ask her to "prove what you say".

If as you say that: "Truth is rarely heard in a world where speaking it is highly discouraged" then why is Aria afraid to defend her opinions. If they are truthful then defend those opinions with courage. Cowards duck behind the moderation and banning of posters or fallacious claims she is blocked from posting here.

Did you have a problem.

I've been a Research Engineer most of my life. Every idea I and my team came up with had to be defended in open debate with other Engineers. Most of what I was involved with pushed technology to its limit and beyond. I have been wrong many times and have never been afraid to admit it but I find it interesting when someone says believe it or else which is what Aria and you believe.

Prove to me that you and Aria are correct and I will admit it. Don't expect me to acquiesce because Aria says it is so.