Wednesday, April 4, 2012

Are hormones and 24/7 365 enough?

This is an interesting concept. If someone starts hormones and transitions and lives 24/7 365 days a year as a woman are they truly women? Basically is this enough? This question was posed by someone on another blog in reference to comments made about a guest post made by one calling themselves Sable on her blog and possibly on my blog. As long as the person has not previously self identified as a transvestite I would have to qualify them as transsexual.

Qualifying as transsexual does not automatically qualify you as a woman (MTF). All it qualifies one for is the label of transsexual and hopefully the path to their freedom through surgery. This may or may not be a minor position change for me but in order to be true to Harry I must allow for this situation. Some transsexuals may not want surgery but what this does is qualify them as transsexual forever since they have not become the other sex. They can never be qualified as female because they have male parts. It may seem cruel to some but this is a line that needs to be drawn in my opinion.

The problem I see for these non-op transsexuals is they are transsexuals for life. How can they assimilate into life as women when they are hindered my still owning their male bits? This is where the issues involving those of us that had SRS and consider ourselves "just" women and those that made a conscious decision not to have surgery come about. The claimants, non-op transsexuals, protest and state they are the same as us and thus women "because" they were born transsexual as we were.

In order to be a woman one can no longer be transsexual since by its very definition it implies we believe we belong to the opposite sex whether it is from total psycho sexual inversion or the proverbial woman trapped in a man's body.  It implies the changing of ones sex by definition or certainly by meaning.  Those that adhere to the process become women.  Those that deny the process whether by decision or for financial or medical reasoning will always be transsexual. Once surgery is completed the  transsexual condition no longer in in existence.

Now what has happened is the non-op transsexuals have joined forces with the Transgender Borg and have attempted to coerce all transsexuals to accept the transgender umbrella. Assimilation is not an option just like the Star Trek Borg stated. It is good for the whole which are the one. That even includes those of us that have gotten on with our lives and are just another woman in society. I always thought that was the goal of all transsexuals but I guess not. They not only want to assimilate transsexuals they want to force us to be considered transsexual for our entire lives just like them.

It seems the assimilation means we no longer are allowed to be true to ourselves and just be women. The irony of this position is exacerbated by the opinions of some that we have forgotten where we came from which is pathetic when coming from some 62 year old man that just started hormones and transitioned after being a transvestite his entire life. The real problem is these assholes have absolutely zero idea what it was like for kids like me because they never lived it.  They imagined it in their minds because if they had lived what I lived through they would not have made it to a late life transition and they would never have married a woman. In actuality we are like night and day or apples and oranges. I existed to be a woman. They existed to be transsexual. Big, very big difference.

I am also pragmatic about my life as a woman. I knew it would be difficult to find a man that could love me for the woman I am. I also cannot hold it against those that cannot.  The men that have truly loved me always thought of me as a girl or woman even if I was attempting boy badly and they witnessed it. It is what I am and always was, a girl, a woman.

I would never try and force myself onto men demanding they accept me.  They either would or would not accept me. You cannot demand acceptance and it is as much fear and disbelief as it is anything. The only man I told that had a bad reaction was Enrique and it was ugly and it was hurtful and it was my fault because I was afraid to tell him and he found out. Later in life we became friends again and he said he was so shocked and in such disbelief he felt betrayed and that was my fault. I never felt I was a complete woman until after SRS.

This is one of the reason I have a very difficult time with these non-op trans lesbians making such a stink because natal born lesbians reject them because they have a penis. What do they expect to happen? Do they honestly expect they will be accepted by other than the rare few, if any? They claim these lesbians are transphobic and denying their gender identity. I see it as lesbian woman demanding their right to only have a lesbian sex partner than is actually physically female.

Why is it we heterosexual women do not scream the same thing about men that refuse to accept us. Maybe it is because we really are women and those "male" lesbians are still just plain men. Men do not like to be denied their little fantasies and as lesbians should know men seem to love lesbians. I always find it humorous when one of these nimrods claims it will not be a sexual relationship.  Funny thing is my lesbian friends think all their relationships are sexual, at least at first. After all why do we date. Okay, I did like the free dinners and movies and admit it.

The is nothing worse than a man that has been scorned and denied his fantasy. Infantile reactions are what come to mind. I would find it interesting for some lesbian packing male bits to explain to me  how this lesbian sexual relationship would work when one has a penis and the other a vagina.  Last time I checked I think that is defined as heterosexual sex but this is a weird new world we live in. I cannot imagine the utter shock a lesbian would endure if they went to bed with what they perceived as a lesbian and found them packing a penis. Now that would be an interesting "Crying Game" moment.

I will attempt to be more understanding of non-op transsexuals but there is a limit to that understanding.

44 comments:

Anonymous said...

Sure, 24/7 and hormones are a down payment - but the item in question (legal status) is on LAYAWAY. You don't take it home until it's paid in full.

Once it's paid for, it's yours and it stays yours. (I think that had to be explained to O.J. Simpson not too long ago?)

-- A.R.

Deena said...

It seems Minnesota agrees with you Elizabeth.
http://www.outfront.org/docs/radtke_district_court_decision.pdf

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the linkie, Deena. Good read. Judge left the door wide-open for a Title VII complaint if those insurance snakes try to enforce that "sex at birth" provision too.

Ya notice, reading it, that the plaintiff was post-op and the insurance person seeing the word "transgender" is what triggered the whole mess? Learn from this - it means "Still Haz Penis" in the real world. NEVER let your physician write that crap word into your medical records - or at least, have it removed after SRS since it no longer applies to you.

-- A.R.

Anonymous said...

At the risk of being labeled a "literalist", I must disagree with your invention of the term, "non-op transexual".

The defintion of a transsexual is someone who changes sex: Not WANTS to change sex; not "plans" to change sex, but someone who actually CHANGES their sex.

A 24/7 non-op on HRT is changing their gender presentation. Unless they are actually changing their primary as well as secondary sexual characteristics, they are not changing sex, which is what trans-SEX-ualism IS.

"S"

Anonymous said...

More pressing matters.


http://www.transadvocate.com/berlin-authorities-endorse-forced-psychiatric-treatment-of-a-transsexual-girl.htm

Look up the petition. Anyone in Germany can help her please do.

BlackSwan

Anonymous said...

I gotta agree with "S" on this one. Taking "op" to mean a sex change operation, non-op is a negation of that, so you end up with:

Non-Op: A person who has a sex-stays-the-same operation. The person so described has done nothing at all.

Statistically, 100% of the people on the planet are non-op, most of whom seem to prefer "normal" as a descriptor.

Oh, and nice try, BS. That's old news and already being handled. TransAdvocate is not anything resembling a reliable source of information. And speaking of TA, dancing on the graves of those buried alive but somehow still living is not appropriate material for April Fool's Day or any other day. My list of hate groups masquerading as advocacy groups just keeps growing...

-- A.R.

Anonymous said...

or.......a person that does not undergo the operation to change thei sexual configuration, ie: genitalia.

"S"

Saphirenz said...

I am a little surprised by the forbearance displayed by Elizabeth in discussing the ‘non op.’ phenomenon. Taken on its own the non ops. have a perfect right to their proclivity and I would defend that right. The trouble is that it doesn’t stop there. They masquerade as transsexual and demand the same rights as women without the slightest intention of paying the dues for membership of women’s world. I think Anonymous ‘S’ is right in saying that a transsexual is in transition or is committed to transition to the sex opposite to that registered at their birth. I have always understood that anything less may be described as transgender.
The anarchic demands of non ops, and other transgenderists, in relation to identity and gender legislation, are outrageously harmful to bona fide transsexuals and women of history and are, in my view, lunacy. Much is often made of the possibility of serious medical contraindications to sex affirming surgery. I suspect this is too often a ‘blind’ but my heart tells me that anyone who has the bitter misfortune to be afflicted by transsexualism and the inability to sustain its radical surgical cure has my utmost sympathy and compassion.

Sagebrush said...

If someone wants to go on HRT (awfully easy to do these days) and live full time as a woman but not have surgery, I figure that's their business. I don't know what to call them, but they seem to like "transgender."

My problem is with some of the stupid shit that comes out of this -- claims to be a woman just like women with a vagina, claims to be *female* just like women with a vagina, lobbying for changes of sex designation (which they call "gender" designation), complaining about transphobia and trans-misogyny because lesbians and other won't consider their genitalia to be "female." The list goes on and seems to get more ridiculous all the time.

I am usually in agreement with what you write, Elizabeth, but this time I think I'm with commentators like A.R., S, and Saphirenz.

Deena said...

From my perspective this all gets to be a bit silly. I do not need to be or want to be an arbitrator on who is what. If a person is female then let her boyfriend vouch for it. If she claims to be a lesbian then let her girlfriend substantiate it. If she claims to not be in a relationship then let the men or women who know her stand up for her. If she claims to be asexual then it really doesn't matter which way she flops does it?

My point is simply that I get bored with all the theory. Theory gets us nowhere. What decides these matters is the daily interactions with other people in the flesh. Anybody can play at being anything in the virtual world but that is worthless.

Now Elizabeth please don't get upset that I am referencing real life. I am not doing it to attack you in any way. I'm simply trying to point out that those people we each actually know are in a much better position to relate to each of us than someone who is only a virtual friend or acquaintance.

So, back to this whole down payment concept. Let the people who know each other make the call. I would bet it is variable. However those chips fall the experts are the people you actually know and not any others.

Miz Know-It-All said...

So, the relationship between the Camel's nose and a Camel's toe is what exactly? Oh wait silly me! Never mind! You know how I forget myself and my place now and again, being that I'm nothing but a silly female!

Anonymous said...

-- A.R. Thank you for the update… good to know.

Now onto the topic.

Each one of us owes it to each other as citizens, this is the basic tenet of citizenry and humanity.

Albert Einstein understood this: "A hundred times every day I tell myself that my inner and out life are based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have received and am still receiving."

What would happen, or rather what wouldn't happen, if you were plunked you down in a less then desirable situation than the one you where born into?

Luck is, in fact, a major factor in determining who is successful and who is not, it casts into doubt the moral justifications of the vast inequities of income and wealth in our society. Warren Buffet and Bill Gates understand their luck and privilege well. However, Steve Jobs (the Apple Asshole) went to his grave with the myth of a self-made man.

If I look at the cornucopia of those that have transitioned to either through a transsexual history or transgender present reality; these profiles, taken together, lay the foundation for a more nuanced narrative. We believed that those that successfully transitioned are more legitimate or more real than those that are stuck unable to afford the very expensive surgeries. A work-together reality that recognizes that successful transsexuals are more than islands floating in a void are essential to a future that see‘s equality of access prevailing over hubris.

I worry about the successful post-operative transsexual of history who feels compelled to re-form luck and privilege into a primarily the sweat of her own brow. I worry particularly about how many pre-op transsexuals and transgender lives she'll need to misinterpret so that she can continue to tell the story she likes to tell about herself. This bias self-perception is a cancer that I see clearly festering into your ideals own destruction.

There are successful individuals who have forgotten the societal roots of their success and vigorously deny the role of social forces in their good fortune. They use inherited privilege and societal investment to get ahead yet work to eliminate opportunities for others.

I’m seeing the death of this movement due in part to the issues the cotton ceiling illuminates.
http://www.transadvocate.com/im-calling-it-the-death-of-the-ts-separatist-movement.htm

I love this article that was posted on Women Born Transsexual; “Caught up in Cotton” http://womenborntranssexual.com/2012/04/05/caught-up-in-cotton/

MKIA, hate never shows itself obtusely and obviously open as “For I am the villain” act 5 scene 3 of Shakespeare; Richard III. Hate hides in justifications and moral judgments. Hate claims a special privilege and rarity such as divine right. Makes it a beauty contests and forgers the political weaponry of victimhood and appropriation as a means to draw attention from the real issues; a fog of deceit, which I’m finding the “Cotton Ceiling” actually piecing this darkness. Hate erases and exterminates others and claims they’re better than the a priori categories they create--I deserve and you do not.

A right to access shouldn’t be based on if you can afford it or not. Especially in such medical matters.

BlackSwan

Anonymous said...

Deena, there are at least about 100 years of accumulated real-world experience on this thread. You think this is THEORY?

This is just how it works. Much of how people react to you - on a subconscious, visceral level - was hard-wired over millions of years of evolution, starting from the moment that sexual reproduction and the resultant sexual dimorphism first appeared on this Earth. None of us could change it if we wanted to.

You are never, ever going to convince anyone a penis is female, not really. Sure, they might pretend to go along with you, in a "Do not make eye contact with the crazy person. Back away slowly," kind of way, but they aren't going to believe it. Evolution selected against that a long, long time ago.

-- A.R.

Deena said...

@ A.R. - Sorry if my choice of words offended you. Perhaps I should have said banter instead of theory. Yes, that definitely reads better. I'll ask MKIA. MKIA has far superior lexicographic skill than I do.

Anonymous said...

ahh yes, "banter". Thank You BS for "dissing", (as in dismissing the simple FACTS, so cogently explained by), A.R.

You like most, Utopian Progressives, are extremely long on verbiage and opinion, and exceeding short on facts.

You see, there is no question that many successful post-operative women, might have caught some breaks. But you must acknowledge that without "the sweat of their brow" and a total personal commitment of whatever blood and/or treasure is needed, and an unflagging persistance and determination, that success might never have been obtained.

Surely you must realize that not everybody can be a winner. Nature simply does not work that way. Remember? Life is not always "fair". It simply does not work that way.

Anonymous said...

Sorry BS...With all due respect, this...
"If I look at the cornucopia of those that have transitioned to either through a transsexual history or transgender present reality; these profiles, taken together, lay the foundation for a more nuanced narrative. We believed that those that successfully transitioned are more legitimate or more real than those that are stuck unable to afford the very expensive surgeries"

It a total, as well as poorly articulated red herring. To call this a straw man would be overly generous.

First of all, trying to lump all "transitioners" as including those that risk and/or pay any price to correct their bodies together with, or "the same as" those who could not care less, goes well beyond comparing cats and dogs.

Surely you are prepared to acknowledge those millions of cross-dressers and gender queers for whom SRS is a total anethema.

Elizabeth said...

@BS

There are times you amaze me. I did not think it was possible for you to be more out of touch with how women feel but you continue to prove me wrong.

You know not a damn thing about what women go through working in the real world which I have done for 40+ years. You are a professional transsexual and that is how you make your living. You may delude yourself into thinking nobody knew but everyone knew about you. You should visit all the web pages and sites that mention you.

It seems your delusions carry over to transvestites. I have not one thing in common with any transvestite on this planet other than I breathe air and we are possibly the same species although I have my doubts.

I do not give a rats ass what happens to any man in a dress because it is a fetish and they are perverts. They abuse women by their very existence. They enjoy being transvestites because they get pleasure from their pricks. I can provide lots of links but you know that from first hand experience don't you???

I pity any fool like you that prefers to remain transsexual when they should just be a woman. You should try that some time.

Anonymous said...

Luck is, in fact, a major factor in determining who is successful and who is not-BS

Firstly BS, could you please clarify how you measure/define "successful"

If I look at the cornucopia of those that have transitioned to either through a transsexual history or transgender present reality; these profiles, taken together, lay the foundation for a more nuanced narrative. We believed that those that successfully transitioned are more legitimate or more real than those that are stuck unable to afford the very expensive surgeries. A work-together reality that recognizes that successful transsexuals are more than islands floating in a void are essential to a future that see‘s equality of access prevailing over hubris.

I worry about the successful post-operative transsexual of history who feels compelled to re-form luck and privilege into a primarily the sweat of her own brow. I worry particularly about how many pre-op transsexuals and transgender lives she'll need to misinterpret so that she can continue to tell the story she likes to tell about herself. This bias self-perception is a cancer that I see clearly festering into your ideals own destruction.
-BS

You know what?, I'm nothing and I'm absolutely NOBODY, but I think that you should know that I personally am absolutely disgusted with you AND this comment.

in comparison to some, you know absolutely NOTHING of hardship, of "less than desirable" situations and neither do those you speak of, who are unprepared to swallow their "pride" and pay the price required.

Do some get it "easier" than others? possibly, but EVERYONE pays a price.

As for

I worry particularly about how many pre-op transsexuals and transgender lives she'll need to misinterpret so that she can continue to tell the story she likes to tell about herself.-BS

What story is that exactly?

If I thought you were worth it; I'd tell you to go fuck yourself.

Anonymous said...

Appologies, I meant to sign the above comment

A-girl.

saphirenz said...

Uhuh, At least I am never in doubt about Elizabeth's plain language unlike the veiled rhetoric posted by some others. I fail to see what any of this has to do with a camel's anatomy. I hope my own comments are not misunderstood.
It would seem to me that clouding the issue is a common propensity for impostors, transgenderists and their supporters.....(ssighh)

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 8:27pm.

Sounds as if your siting Alger and his ilk, I suggest you venture to Mark Twain's "The story of the bad [girl] boy who did not come to grief."

The burden is on you to prove an example of one who did it entirely on his/her own with no help.

BlackSwan

Miz Know-It-All said...

Sigh indeed! Ok let me "splain..." When you let the camels nose into the tent, soon the rest of him follows! If you give an inch to the TG, as a certain Woman Born Transsexual is doing, not only will she find a camle in her tent, but likely six or seven of his buddys who popped in to join the party!

Camels toe was meant as nothing more than a bit of clever linguistics play on the forementioned camel. As one would hope you know that "a camels toe" to be a grevious fashion faux pas that can only be suffered by one who does not sport male bits!

Anonymous said...

A-girl, don't let your intellectual materialism get the best of you. Ideas that challenge your own may hurt a bit--take it like "A-girl."

“Life isn't fair” is a favorite saying among conservatives. And the often unspoken corollary is, "So get used to it.” But most people do not want to get used to it. In fact, the desire for fairness is as American as apple pie – it is in our blood. We get riled up when people are not treated fairly and we think something should be done about it. And more often than not the place that people turn to try to right these wrongs – to make life fairer for themselves and others – is government. Government is the main provider of justice and fairness in American society. Many government policies and government institutions are explicitly designed to promote these important public values.

BlackSwan

Anonymous said...

I suggest the dictionary if you need a definition for "successful."

What does Grace Andreacchi and Nassim Nicholas Taleb have in common?

BlackSwan

Deena said...

You asked "What does Grace Andreacchi and Nassim Nicholas Taleb have in common?".

Well for one thing I've never heard of either. Maybe they smoke camels?

A-girl said...

I didn't ask for A definition, I asked how YOU measure/define it?....

"Success" is in the eye of the beholder, those that have what other WANT.

So what is it exactly that you WANT BS that the mean old world won't GIVE you and that those other mean old women take for granted and have obviously had handed to them?

I am under no illusions about how "fair" the world or life is, thank you, and there isn't a damn thing any government could do to help make my life what I feel it needs to be to be fair, but then; my motivations are different to yours aren't they?

Ooops! There I go again, getting all "separatist"..... My bad!

A-girl said...

Oh, and I do.... Take it like a girl that is (in every sense!) like every other GIRL here is and has, (and interestingly, you are not).

Good day.

Anonymous said...

It's all really quite simple. Utopian visionaries tend to convince themselves that success breeds conservatism. In reality, it's the other way around. What they call "conservatism" is really *realism*, which is a prerequisite for success. (How can you get where you want to go, if you don't even know where you are?)

Ya know what's really funny about this? Buried in these 100+ years of experience on this thread, are many experiences of having been disowned/disinherited young, then bouncing off the streets and self-bootstrapping starting all over from zero.

This is called "privilege" and derided - by the same people who are currently rallying around the young beauty queen with who had the parents that were both understanding enough to help, and had the means to do it, and who may never have to face the realities that most of the women here did.

So:

Throwaway kid + poverty + marginal looks == "Privilege."

Cool parents + money + beauty-queen looks == what, "Hardship?"

Welcome to TG Wonderland.

-- A.R.

Deena said...

Disagreeing with a person's perspective is OK as far as I'm concerned. I enjoy discussions and debates. Turning from that to trashing the other person is, in my opinion, an absolute giveaway to insecurity and lack of self esteem. Black Swan is concerned about the oppressed and I admire that. I do not always agree with BS because we view life somewhat differently. But to anyone who is so insecure as to feel compelled to trash BS let it be clearly known that she has paid the price few have paid. She will not lay it all out for you because there is absolutely no way to do that in ways anyone could comprehend and she knows it.

So, A-Girl, whoever you are, back off the personal denigration innuendos and barbs. Surely you are a better lady than that.

Anonymous said...

To me this discussion sounds like a proxy war between those progressive liberal ideas of "equality" of result, (stuff), VS: conservative ideas of personal freedom to excel, (equality of opportunity).

If we must all be "equal", (in suts), what is the point of hard work and brilliant ideas?

So if I want to work extra hard to drive a nice car, have a nice home, and enjoy an early retirement, I am an "elitist"?

Am I now foced to live in poverty and use public transportation and suffer substandard medical care because no matter how hard I worked I am entitled to "the same as" those who lived off the government dole all their lives.

NO THANKS! "Give me liberty, or give me death"!

@A.R...."Throwaway kid + poverty + marginal looks == "Privilege."

Cool parents + money + beauty-queen looks == what, "Hardship?"

Welcome to TG Wonderland."

Good Point.

The bad news is that now the TG have co-opted a new champion. Whether she likes it or not.

"S"

Elizabeth said...

@Deena

BS gets exactly what she deserves based on what she has said to others. She is a big girl and can take care of herself. A-girl has the same right to her opinion of BS as BS has for A-girl.

BS spouts the same transgender bullshit every time she comments. She supports transvestites because they support her side businesses. She claims some higher ground yet when asked if she was transsexual she denied it ON THE RECORD.

I have read nothing by A-girl that is over any line regarding BS.

A-girl said...

Deena, is it REALLY the oppressed that BS is concerned about? (an honest question, No Innuendoes or barbs)

Thank for reminding me of my place.

Deena said...

A-girl let me be blunt. BS can speak for herself. I know her as a very loving person who would give a poor kid the shirt off her back and feed them if she had to go without food herself. Is she an angel? Hardly. I would say more of a slut but then I'm her sister and can slap her when I want to. The only point I wanted to make to you and others on this thread is simply that we can all disagree on ideas but we do not need to slam each other at a personal level.

Anonymous said...

"The burden is on you to prove an example of one who did it entirely on his/her own with no help."

Sorry BS....We hae nothing to prove to you. The facts, our mundane lives as an integral part our society, speak for themselves.

As for your "burden of proof", I am a living breathing, walking and talking "example of one who did it entirely on his/her own with no help." OK???

Most of the women that I know who have survived this condition, "did it entirely on his/her own with no help."

Elizabeth said...

@Deena

That is an interesting look at BS. I doubt several famous women born transsexual think so highly of her.

BS is the one that crossed the line. I have no problem discussing issues but BS enjoys taking it over the line.

I am sure you enjoyed your meet and greet with BS. I would have thought most of us were her sister but I guess that assumption is wrong.

Elizabeth said...

@Deena

That is an interesting look at BS. I doubt several famous women born transsexual think so highly of her.

BS is the one that crossed the line. I have no problem discussing issues but BS enjoys taking it over the line.

I am sure you enjoyed your meet and greet with BS. I would have thought most of us were her sister but I guess that assumption is wrong.

A-girl said...

Thank you for clearing that up for me Deena, although I was not aware that I'd questioned her "character" at any point.

Deena said...

@ Liz. I have known BS for many years. I have never met you in person. I just want that to be clear. For all I know you are a fabrication of the net and for all you know so am I.

Elizabeth said...

@Deena

I know all about your need to meet everyone and my opinion is well known on that front. There are actually many people on the net that know me and have met me although I believe you were among those that said or agreed my appointment card from Dr. Benjamin could be a fake and so could my picture.

It is what it is and I have had those kind of implications from your attention loving friend BS. The woman that runs this site is one of my best friends in the world and we have met multiple times in Philadelphia.

http://www.antijen.org/index.html

I paid for one of her kids surgery, travel, and hotel in Thailand. I do more than give the shirt off my back. I help kids like me reach their dream of just being girls because I give back to those that deserve to be helped.

I guess that makes me elitist scum or worse according to your pal. BS is about as damaged as any sister I have ever encountered and yes despite what she has said about me I do consider her a woman and a sister but not a slut but then I am not someone that would call a friend a slut either.

Deena said...

Liz you just don't know how to have fun with a sister do you? You want to slam me for playing slap games with BS but it won't work. When BS tells me I shouldn't tease her about being a slut then I won't. Let me see if I can put that into a different frame of reference for you. Nothing you can do or say will ever cause a rift between me and Black Swan. Is that simple enough for you? What is it you do not understand about sisters?

Elizabeth said...

@Deena

What is your problem? Simply stated I would never call a friend a slut. I was not trying to drive a wedge between you and BS. Why would I do that?

If you feel that is appropriate then go for it. I do not but then I treat my girlfriends differently than you obviously would but then again most of my girlfriends have known me for 20 or more years and several for over 40 years.

The women I know would never call a friend a slut in a public forum but maybe BS considers herself a slut in which case you are correct.

I would really like you to explain what delusion makes you believe I was trying to harm your friendship with BS?

Deena said...

Give it a rest Elizabeth. You play games. As I said, nothing you can do will effect my relationship with Black swan. BS can call me anything she wants including slut, whore and whatever she wants to but it won't affect our relationship. Comprendez yous?

Elizabeth said...

@Deena

What the heck are you talking about? Why in the world would I want to harm your relationship with BS?

Stop accusing me of something I neither did nor tried to do. You seem to have reading comprehension issues or maybe alcohol consumption problems.

Because I would never call a friend that is my opinion and was never intended to disrupt your relationship with BS. Do you comprehend that??

Deena said...

Sorry Liz. I must have mistaken your comment or intent.