Is there really only one kind of transsexual?

I thought I was finished with my friend (sic) and her personal mission to make her point of view the only point of view because she is of course the only one that "understands" the transsexual condition because after all she is a "primary" transsexual as defined in the very limited and flawed Person-Ovesey study and she and all her minions are the only true transsexuals which quite conveniently fits her symptoms and of course she and her minions reserve the right to classify who is and who isn't and call others who oppose their myopic views transvestites frauds etc..

Of course one could say the same thing about me but the only mission I have is not my flawed opinions but the simple belief if you read Harry Benjamin's The Transsexual Phenomenon   you will have a better and more honest idea of what transsexualism is because Harry was and is to this day the only Physician of note in the United States that ever gave a damn about transsexuals and had absolutely no monetary interest in any area of the lucrative business of transsexualism. Harry did what he did because he cared without bias or preconceived notions of who or what we were or are.

This time it is a post called The HTS Myth and as is her normal process she manipulates the truth to fit her myopic view of the world and the paranoid beliefs of her and her minions that they as the only "true" transsexuals are under attack by gay men, transvestites, lesbians, phonies, frauds, transsexuals that are transgendered only, and all manner of other paranoid delusions too numerous and hard to remember. She has what can best be described as a personal "hate list" but of course she is not a "bigot".  Everyone else is.

The following comment stretches credulity. 

.....

Now it’s time to deal with the other weapon the sexologists use against us; the blending of youthful “effeminate” behavior with the TS narrative in order to erase the actual TS condition from the books and finish replacing us with gay and transvestite men.

The standard TS narrative is a mantra that goes something like this:  I was a feminine child who played only with girls’ toys.  I wore my mother’s clothes when I could, until my parents came down on me and forced me to stop.  I thought I was a girl until other people told me I wasn’t.  I was often bullied for being gay as a child because I was so feminine I couldn’t control my behavior.


This is what TS clients learned to tell their doctors and psychs, because that is what they wanted to hear.  Back when this story was passed from one “TS” to another in the early days, it was recited as a litany so that a person could get treatment.  So the common feeling among psychs at the time reflected this, and clients parroted back what the psychs wanted to hear.  This led to the condition later becoming conflated with being gay.  This is the problem as it stands.  The psychs (sexologists really)  currently involved with the TS area want to mislabel us as gay or transvestite, and nobody outside that little clique in the APA seems interested in putting a stop to their shenanigans.

Unlike Aria I actually was around when most of this started and she is per usual off course. Benjamin did the first comprehensive study of transsexuals and even after his book was published in 1966 there was no TS narrative and this certainly carried through until the 70's. If Aria had ever bothered to read Harry's book with her mind in comprehension mode she would realize that few of his first 152 patients were anything like her "narrative" of what a transsexual was or the supposed plot to turn replace poor Aria with gay men and transvestites. I doubt there would be any volunteers for such a perilous thought.

The transsexual Aria describes above is what Benjamin classified as a Type VI total psycho-sexual inversion transsexual of extremely high intensity and totally driven at all costs towards surgery. Harry found very few kids like this and I believe I was the second he came into contact with personally at a young age when we met in late 1959 although the number did increase during the 60's and peaked around 1970 and Harry felt remained consistent at around 1 in 200-300,000 births in the United States based on his understanding. Type VI is very rare which does lead strong credence to the belief most feminine or effeminate boys are NOT transsexual but there just are not that many Type VI transsexuals anyway.

Of the 152 transsexuals Benjamin had met none shared a narrative just a shared experience of pain, suffering, and gender dysphoria. I had never even heard the term transsexual when I met Dr. Benjamin in 1959 so where did my narrative come from? It came from my very existence. Of the friends I had only one of them knew another transsexual until they made it to New York City and that was from a very short time in San Francisco where she met Harry and none of them had a "learned" narrative. In fact none of our stories were remotely alike other than we knew at a young age something was wrong and we either should have been girls, felt we were girls, or wanted to be girls. Some were feminine, some were anything but feminine, and one was exceedingly effeminate.

I was feminine because of very low testosterone but in no way effeminate in a "gay" way as Aria likes to put it. I had no issues and no desires to cross-dress until around 9-10 when I was sure I needed to "practice" since "god" would turn me into a girl and I needed to be ready. That was not a high percentage thought process though and I was basically clueless. This despite being tormented by Psychiatrists and being told I would "turn out" gay or worse. When I realized I liked boys as a girl when I entered High School is when it got rough.

My friend Lana didn't understand her dysphoria until she was around 8 or 9. She just felt wrong was how she put it. Her life went south when she was 13 and realized she liked boys as a girl. Another friend was so masculine yet far more effeminate than either of us and she is the girl that committed suicide off the George Washington Bridge. She was my friend and it was a terrible loss.

Other than realizing as children we were not boys or something was wrong there was never a shared narrative and I defy you to find something in Harry's book that implies there is such a shared narrative at least from the early days and that is the only place that a narrative could have come from in the "early days" as you claim. The myth you want to support and feel has harmed you as a transsexual and has resulted in gay men subverting the transsexual world you believe in is the biggest myth of all. If there was a stereotypical  concept of a transsexual it was the one Person-Ovesey proposed as the Primary Transsexual or YOU!! You belong to the largest group of transsexuals and that is the Type V Benjamin transsexual or the stereotypical "trapped in a woman's body" syndrome or did you magically awaken some day and realize you were a girl?. That is also a myth since few fit neatly into any type of transsexual mold unless of course you get to define your own mold which is quite convenient.

Do I believe certain people learned what they had to say to get help? Yes, I absolutely do because when you are desperate for help as any transsexual is  rejection is not an option regardless of the age but then of course we have to assume you know this.  I would be interested in Aria's narrative as in the Aria story but then I bet it fits neatly into the window you have defined for yourself. I would really like to know when she transitioned and how many years post she is so we have a clue how she has gained this great experience in all things transsexual.

Do I believe there are differences? Yes I do and I do not want those differences lost but only the shallow and weak of mind believe someone can steal their womanhood from them. If you are a woman how does one steal it from you?? Do they repossess your vagina? Do they reprogram your mind? I guess maybe when you are nearing 65 it looks different for the old folk like me. I lived it and had no desire to rule it like others today. I had the life I wanted and have lived it without regret. Instead of worrying about some mythical paranoid collusion to destroy the transsexual you might want to try living for a while.

There is no way to guarantee that someone cannot slip threw the cracks and get surgery that should not but the presumptuous nature of your beliefs make it seem you believe a high percentage of post operative women are transgendered and thus not transsexual and do not measure up to you because you are one of the few "true" primary transsexuals based on you obvious medical expertise as an online savant in transsexualism.If they live and function as women just what is the difference again?

Nobody knows a single thing about you yet everyone must take your word on how everyone should live their lives, decide their alliances, whom to trust, who is transsexual, who is a sock puppet, and everything else related to your paranoia.

All I see is a bunch of liberal elite know-it-all pseudo feminist fools like you and Sandeen masquerading as leaders of the transsexual or transgender  niches you seem to have carved out for yourself with both of you fools worrying about who is what and why I am right and you are wrong. You are both nuts!

Now some pertinent information and facts from Harry's book..

Dr. Benjamin put these paragraphs in his book:

The transvestitic urge (fetishistic or transsexual) contains an element of addiction. Larger "doses" may be required for certain individuals as time goes on. Therein may lie a "progressive" nature of TVism in some instances. If untreated and uncontrolled, "dressing" may be desired more and more frequently and even the idea of physical changes through hormone treatment or through an operation may be gaining ground, particularly in unfavorable - that is to say, constantly stimulating - surroundings. Here psychotherapy and proper guidance at the right time may help, provided a transsexual tendency is not too deep-seated.Such seemingly progressive aggravation of transvestism was rarely noticed under treatment, although it did apparently occur in a few cases. However, later on, these patients proved to be initially unrecognized transsexuals. The opposite was more frequently observed: under estrogen medication, the desire to "dress" became often less demanding and less sexual and the inability to indulge grew somewhat less frustrating. The explanation probably is that the libido was reduced in its intensity through estrogen and since the transvestitic urge is part of the libido, it was likewise lowered. But I am anticipating a later discussion.

The foregoing paragraphs (if repetition may be permitted) apply chiefly to that form of transvestism that is its own purpose, which is to say that it is not the chief symptom of transsexualism. As soon as physical changes are desired, it ceases to be true transvestism, and inclines toward transsexualism (Type IV of S.O.S.; table on page 22). The full and complete transsexual (S.O.S. V and VI) finds only temporary and partial relief through "dressing." I have even met transsexuals who would not "dress" at all."What good is it?" they said; "it does not make me a woman. I am not interested in her clothes; I am only interested in being a woman." That is the true transsexual sentiment.

If the transsexual does find relief in "dressing," to do so would be the first logical advice to be given therapeutically. Its permissive character can be questioned by those who may think of the law before they think of the patient, or who may have insufficient experience along these lines, or who are the type that, automatically, favors prohibition. Too many individuals are that way; what they do not like must be forbidden and punished. Then they are satisfied. I have even met transvestites who dislike (or pretend to dislike) transsexualism so much that they are against estrogen treatment and operation (for reasons of self-protection?). There are also transsexuals who dislike transvestites as well as homosexuals. Intolerance can be found in strange quarters.

I find this quite fitting today. Even in 1966 Harry Benjamin realized this is not black and white and it is not singular in definition because the human species is so diverse and no two are the same so why would some fool believe there is only one type of transsexual? Could it be a self doubt issue in the complainant?


The following is what Harry wrote about concerning motives for surgery.

Four Motives for the Conversion Operation

 My clinical impression of the more specific reasons why transsexual men want conversion surgery caused me to identify four principal, fundamental motives within the general picture of sex and gender disorientation.

The first, foremost, and most frequent is the sexual motive. It concerns particularly the younger transsexuals. Their sex drive is not that of a homosexual man but that of a woman who is strongly attracted to normal heterosexual men. In love-making, their male sex organs are in the way and must be altered so that the lover can be accommodated in as normal a manner as possible. A wellfunctioning vagina is therefore indispensable. Marriage with the adoption of children is the goal for most. But not infrequently, promiscuity, prostitutional or nonprostitutional, appears tempting for a period of time. "Let me try out my new toy for a while," one very attractive young "convert" pleaded with me when I pointed out to her the disadvantages and risks of promiscuity and prostitution.

The second motive, always present, but often overshadowed by the sexual, is the gender motive. Especially for the older transsexuals, the urgent need to relieve their gender unhappiness can be powerful and impressive. "Would you want the operation," I frequently asked, "if there could never be a chance for any sex relations with a normal man?" Some hesitated to answer, then said they would have to think it over. Those were the younger ones in whom the sex motive predominated. But others replied unhesitatingly, "Yes." They admitted they might lose something of their future happiness, but the gain would still be much greater than the loss. "I will feel free for the first time in my life," said one forty-year-old, referring to her "imprisonment" in a male body.

The third motive is even more universal. It is the legal motive. The constant fear of discovery, arrest, and prosecution when "dressing" or living as women is a nightmare for many. They want to be women legitimately and have a legal change of their sex status. Alas, red tape, if not personal antagonism of some bureaucrats, is their powerful enemy. The impossibility (in the great majority of cases) of changing name and status (on the birth certificate) while male genitalia are still present, is a strong incentive for surgery. The legal change is somewhat easier afterward, but by no means easy. Red tape is a rather enduring adversary, especially in some states of the Union. (See Chapter 9. )

The fourth motive is a social one and applies only if the transsexual patient happens to have a conspicuous feminine physique, appearance, and manners. It may constantly embarrass him through snickering, pointed remarks, and knowing looks. It has even endangered some of them through physical attacks by moronic, would-be "he-men," sometimes undoubtedly latent homosexuals who were "protesting too much." The appearance of the very feminine-looking young man could also be a serious handicap in procuring a job.

"I hated to go out with my son," a mother once remarked to me. "He embarrassed me no end by his looks. Now he made the change and lives and works as a girl (waiting and hoping for the operation). Now I am proud of my new and attractive 'daughter.' A former nasty remark from someone is now - if anything a wolf whistle. I love to be seen with her."

From personal observation, I could certainly verify the attractiveness of this otherwise completely inconspicuous "young lady."

In many patients, all four motives, especially the first three, play a part, merging and overlapping according to individual traits and circumstances.

Of the 152 patients Dr. Benjamin had actually treated in both New York and San Francisco at the publishing date 51 had surgery performed. they crossed the following age boundaries with the youngest being 20 and the oldest 58 so lets end this BULLSHIT about late transitioners spouted

23 in their 20's
14 in their 30's
11 in their 40's
3 in their 50's

In the 51 that had surgery the first evidence of transsexualism is as follows with added information:

Early childhood 43
Puberty 2
Unknown 6

Evidence of childhood conditioning was as follows:

Positive conditioning 12
No evidence 28
Doubtful evidence 10
Early history unknown 1

In perhaps twenty-three patients, the sexual motive appeared to be dominant. The gender motive seemed to prevail in twenty-eight cases. A sharp separation is not possible. As explained previously, the legal motive exists in all cases and the social motive has to be thought of in only a minority.

Of these 51 patients, twelve married as women. Also, twelve were married previously as men. Five have experienced married life from both sex angles (as a male, unsuccessful, some not even consummated); five were divorced as females and three remarried one or more times.

The following were Harry's conclusions.

Conclusions

My observations have forced upon me the conclusion that most patients operated upon, no matter how disturbed they still may be, are better off afterward than they were before: some subjectively, some objectively, some both ways. I have become convinced from what I have seen that a miserable, unhappy male transsexual can, with the help of surgery and endocrinology, attain a happier future as a woman. In this way, the individual as well as society can be served. The rejection of the operation and/or treatment as a matter of principle is therefore not justified.

For the losers of the world that would dismiss some because they have had surgery but do not fit the "image" or the "personal" belief of what a transsexual is because they identify transgender I give you this paragraph from Harry's book.

One thing seems certain. While great conservatism should prevail in advising, consenting to, and performing a conversion operation, all possible help should be given those who present a fait accompli by having undergone the irrevocable step of surgery. It seems to me to be the duty not only of physicians, but also of the community, to pave the way as much as possible for such persons so that they can succeed in their new pattern of life as members of the opposite sex.

Please read the last paragraph again

In other words you and I are no better nor any worse than anyone else that has had surgery. I am not better because I was the young feminine boy and neither is Aria and her self described non-feminine transsexual. We all swim in the ocean of transsexuals.

The following was part of Dr. Benjamin's conclusion in Appendix A.

 Concluding Remarks and Outlook (December 15, 1965)

The collection of statistical data in the preceding pages was closed at the end of 1964. Toward the end of 1965, a total Of 307 cases of the transvestite-transsexual phenomenon were observed. Among them were 193 males (S.O.S. IV, V, and VI); 62 of them were operated upon. Besides, there were 27 female transsexuals; 11 of them had either hysterectomies or mastectomies or both performed. The rest of the males were transvestites.

The additional number of clinical observations has not materially changed a tentative facit drawn from the clinical material presented in this book. A few definite factors seem to have emerged.

The etiology of the transsexual state is still largely obscure, but a light seems to blink here and there in publications from the laboratories of brain physiologists.

Childhood conditioning and possible imprinting undoubtedly have a connection with the development and the intensity of the transsexual phenomenon, but can only be considered as contributory or as one of several possible causes. The presence of an inborn, organic, but not necessarily hereditary origin or predisposition appears more and more probable. Further research, aside from psychological and endocrine studies, will most likely have to concern itself primarily with work in two areas: genetics and neurophysiology.

For the tools of the world  this is what scientific research entails and is about. facts, facts, facts, and more facts not the preconceived ideas of pseudo scientists like  Money, Zucker, Blanchard, and others trying to prove preconceived concepts about the relationships between gay boys and feminine transsexuals or whatever pet peeve some lay person has.

Again there is not ONE specific type of transsexual.  It would be and is convenient for some to propose such hypothesis and they do for their own myopic and prejudicial belief that it makes them better. They will tell you they are not elitists and will rail against old timer elitists because it is what they do to defer closer analysis of who is the elitist. They probably do it because they have serious inferiority complexes based on the self-belief they have been persecuted because they are transsexual.

I have yet to meet a transsexual that has not faced some issues but we survive and we carry on. At least in my time we did not try to crap on others because we thought we were better. Maybe the old days in some ways were better and maybe we should get back to basics and use the understanding Harry had for us verses the loons of today.

Aria's last paragraph is interesting.

Don’t tell your childhood experiences to these people.  Don’t speak to them of anything.  Deprive them of their research subjects.  We must maintain this information blackout until this group is gone from the scene and are replaced by people who don’t want us destroyed.  And make no mistake, if these people get their way they will do their best to wipe us from the face of the earth.

Resist.

Somehow I think Harry is looking down and shaking his head at this stupidity. There are people out there that care and understand. Dr. Spack at Children's Boston is certainly one such person who deals with children. Not talking to Blanchard or someone of that ilk may delay things but the more relevant information available means there is more information available to refute the myth purveyors but then again if you are a myth purveyor I guess information is your enemy.