Monday, October 21, 2013

Update on Florence Colorado case

Okay I am starting to get really pissed off about the beautiful transsexual kid in Florence Colorado. This is such complete and total BULLSHIT it is getting to me. Here is her picture as posted elsewhere on Cristan Williams blog.

She transitioned over two years ago and part of the issue is probably she has two moms and we know how bonkers those dipshits at the Pacific Justice Institute(PJI) are. I have had my arguments with Cristan Williams at times but Cristan has done a good thing here and has debunked everything these so called Christians have said about this beautiful little girl. I suggest you read this post at Cristan Williams blog.

Look at that little girl and I dare anyone to tell me she is not a girl. She could not even use the boys room before she transitioned because people thought she was a girl. As someone that identifies as a non church affiliated Christian I find the treatment of this little girl beyond abhorrent. You do not hurt children and that is sacrosanct. Hurting a child goes beyond bullying for an adult and anyone that sides with the wingnuts trying to hurt this beautiful girl needs to get a dope slap so they can wake up and smell the roses. I do not care if the child is TS, TG, trans, gay, lesbian, or gender questioning YOU DO NOT HURT THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Pacific Justice Institute is so full of shit they have changed their story more times than even they can keep track of.  I am willing to wager a lot of this goes back to the fact the parents are lesbian and we know PJI cannot handle that despite the fact they make wonderful and caring parents as do gay couples.

I guess maybe my outrage is growing because I can relate to this kid and damn few of you can. Whether you know it or not that beautiful little girl has more courage than most of you can possibly understand. That kid sure does look intimidating in the girls room, NOT!!

Again kudos to Cristan Williams for ripping those turds at PJI a new one.


Jessica said...

Wow, indeed good, Williams. Credit where it's due.

You know, I'm with you, too, Elizabeth, this is pissing me off. I support HBS, and frequent your site, and others like it because not only does HBS make sense, but to also give the young TS kids of today a good future. Heck, this applies to kids who are TG, gay, lesbian, questioning, too, although these matters are seemingly not relevant to the case at hand. Today's youth is tomorrow's future, right?

Look, no offense or anything, and to build on this point by Elizabeth here: "I guess maybe my outrage is growing because I can relate to this kid and damn few of you can."

It wasn't high school for me, but who else besides Liz and I,can claim to be a student who transitioned, in her shoes (of transitioning in a school)? Just curious. I'd be interested to see others who were, to gauge their opinions.

I hate phrasing it like that, since it appears rather boastful, but the point should be clear, as I said last entry, will again: I respect your opinion, no matter how much you disagree. But sure as hell don't say you've been there if you haven't. Liz and I have, on that front; granted, she more than I, and I openly admit that in the interest of fairness.

Oh yeah, that kid, she is CLEARLY a girl. What more proof do we want at this point? Evidence has said VERY little, if anything to the contrary about her transition. What WAS a negative backlash by PGI quite clearly was torn apart by Williams, for its sheer stupidity, and bias, not to mention Williams unearthing a few interesting facts about her family; namely her two mothers.

I want links, perhaps experience, to prove the contrary to Liz or me, if you go against us.

Sigh, though, against kids? Really? I'd hope those who support HBS know better; good on you Liz. Anything to proof she ISN'T Type VI? Not a shred of doubt in my mind.

She is transitioning, and given her goals of just trying to fit in like a normal girl, by all accounts, save the bigoted PGI one, I'd say she's earned that right of the girl's bathroom, based on reports of her attitude, demeanor, lack of disturbance, etc. What more do you want from her, at this point? SRS isn't likely an option at this point, if you're looking for that, given many modern surgeons insist on 18+, and won't operate on minors even if they would otherwise be okay.



Anonymous said...

I was 14 years old when I screamed at my parents "I'm a girl I'm a girl why can't you see that" a few days later when one morning before school I was again caught wearing a dress my Mother threatened to send me to school in it. The look of joy on my face changed her mind. My school by the way was not co-ed but an English all boys Grammar School. I was always being taken for a girl and Liz knows extremely well how traumatic it is when a parent or someone else corrects the stranger with an "No, he's a boy" Those whom have no idea see that as "privilege" Yeah right of course it is.

This brave girl needs help and support not all this heartless bull shit from authorities. My biggest fear is that someone like J Michael Bailey gets to "help" her.

Yes I have a pretty good idea what this poor girl endures every day of her life. Please God she gets the right medical support for her transition.


Anonymous said...

Good morning! Since Jessica asked, I'll toss my cap into the room with the reminiscence that I had a rather easier time of it 36 years ago in college. I had to explain myself in an interview at the Registrar's Office, but that was mostly because of my desire to live in on-campus housing. If memory serves correctly, there were something on the order of 12,000 students in attendance, so it was fairly easy to become happily 'lost in the sauce' of a large crowd of students, so long as I was willing to move my studies over to a different faculty (which, as it turns out, was a staggeringly-lousy choice in terms of future employment prospects, although at 17 years old I wasn't thinking that far into the future).

So, what's changed? Well, in the 70s, many records (including vital-statistics records) were still being kept in paper form, so one didn't have to worry about being tied into far-reaching electronic record-keeping systems. There still wasn't much public awareness of the possibility of HBS; I was lucky in that one of my statistics classes met in a conference-room at the college's biomedical library, so there were good books to read if one took the time to look them up in the card-catalogue.

It probably also helps that the various eliminationalist groups (like PJI) did not yet exist. ^_^

So, issues were practical: what would I do if I met former classmates at the Student Union? I usually just gave them a blank stare if I reacted at all. I was focussed on getting through a heavy technical courseload, answering those ^&*(% P-sets, and passing the exams, just like everyone else who was paying for their education on their own savings instead of Daddy's money.

The autumn after I came back from surgery, I became intensely grateful that there were still some old-fashioned womens' 'rest-rooms' with a side-room containing a couch (remember those?), because it took several months to fully recover. Nobody gave me any grief; I found that as time went on I needed that blank stare reflex less and less. I still lead a quiet life: Darling Spouse knows my life story; my in-laws do not (nor do they need to know).

I'm guessing that, outside the Registrar's inner office staff, maybe a half-dozen of my classmates knew about me back then. All women; all were good to me: we've stayed in touch over the years. That doesn't mean that I'd wistfully like to go back in a time machine to being in my late teens and facing big life choices like that all over again -- but that's mostly because I can't see how I'd have done anything differently, and I wasn't doing it on a lark!

To the haters out there: 'if you haven't walked in our shoes, how durst you judge us?'

:: apologetically-anonymous elfchick

Just Jennifer said...

We are not as far apart as you seem to think. The biggest difference is, I refuse to rush into any judgement on this, given the information that is available. The one thing lacking here is facts. We have the originally story, which has been distorted beyond reason by "Cristan" WIlliams, we have the continuing stream of rhetoric (not facts) from "Cristan" Williams, and we have the statements from PJI.

Now, unlike some, I look at all sides of an issue. I don't just rush in, guns blazing, pushing my agenda. I also try to find a balanced approach.

On one side, there seems to be an absolutist position regarding the right of someone, who may, or may not, be transsexual to access women's spaces without regard for anyone else's feelings. On the other side, there is a group that, I have no doubt, would love to say that even someone who is post-op should not have access to women's spaces. I tend to disdain extremes, period.

One issue for me, which some wish to gloss over, is the fact that this student is not able to (whether willing or not) to hide the fact of having been born male. There is no hope of that here. That creates a issue that is going, whether anyone likes it, or not, to cause distress for at significant portion of the female population.

Now, it appears that the point where we differ is whether or not those female students have a right to their feelings, and whether or not they have a right to have those feelings considered.

I am not willing to run roughshod over their feelings. That is why I have said that a compromise would be in order in this case.

Now, I want to again emphasize that the one thing lacking in this case is valid, factual information. I am not sure there is much hope of that changing. There, quite rightly, protecting privacy rights of students, so, at best, the school is limited in what it can say. Obviously, the PJI has an agenda, so we have to weigh that in considering what they say. Likewise "Cristan" Williams also has an agenda, and a know history of lying, distorting, and engaging in regular logical fallacies, which also has to be weighed in considering what is said.

I have seen more than a few contradictions in the latest from Williams. Williams cherry picks facts, and makes up stuff when convenient.

The bottom line, from my point of view is, there should be a balanced approach. If you disagree, that is your right. But I am not going to jump into lockstep with the extremists who are trying to use this issue to bulldoze the rights of others in their quest to remake society.

I realize this is a very emotional topic for some, and I have been rather disappointed that some have let that emotion get the better of them, to the point of saying things that may well taken as hurtful. If there cannot be a sane, calm discussion of this, then well, I will be, at the very least, very disappointed.

Elizabeth said...

@Just Jennifer

There are tons of "facts" here and the simple truth is you are not willing to look at them as facts because of your bias towards Williams and I understand you have reasons.

The facts based on interviews, verbal on the record interviews, are that this child transitioned several years ago and is a very beautiful young girl whose parents happen to be lesbian. Having helped 10 kids I can tell you these parents have done it the right way.

When we transition a child we recommend the parents be sure the school and everyone knows about the child for some very specific reasons. It is extremely dangerous to even contemplate attending school without anyone knowing you are transsexual. That is when parents get mad and the kids can be hurt. I know this because of the kids we helped and my life.

It was the school and the local administrations decision and in her case obviously the correct one. As for your calm discussion of the issues may I suggest you take off your "I despise Williams" hat and look at the facts she has brought up including interviews with the mother and the school plus several photos. If these are phony Williams will be excoriated publicly.

Sometimes people do the right thing and surprise you. IMHO Williams has done that on this subject. This is about a child and not some man in a dress and I might add a very beautiful child who was never a boy. Look at her and understand that is a transsexual child who was born that way.

Actually I am disappointed in you because you are incapable of looking at that child and not simply saying "enough is enough" and stop trying to hurt her. The PJU has changed their attack so many times they lack any credibility. You DO NOT hurt kids nor do you publicly excoriate them if you are a good Christian which none of them are.

Sometimes I wonder about you.

Kathryn Dumke said...

The reporting of this case raises a number of real issues. It seems that the initial claim that girls were harassed has been debunked, no such thing happened. The second claim that privacy rights were violated was not part of the complaint to the school principal. This part arose after the PJI got involved, trying to frame the issue in a manner that is so far removed from the reality of this little girls and every other girls life in that school. The reason why the school administration offered faculty bathrooms to girls who had "an issue" with this little girl using the girls bathroom was because the likelihood that any of the girls actually would use the faculty bathroom was literally non-existent. The actual interviews of class mates make that more than clear.

The "protectionist" segregation of transsexual children in fact creates more rather than less problems. It imposes a special status on those children which is far from what they really need. In fact, it makes her needs, namely to be treated like any other little girl, an aberration,

There do not appear to be "other female students" outside of one complaint from one parent, and even with this it is unclear if it came from the girl or the parent.

I have a lot of objections to Cristan Williams, but in this case he provided the raw date in the form of his interviews. That allows anyone to draw their own conclusions;.

Just Jennifer said...

Again, I am not suggesting the child be harmed. I am suggesting a middle ground. I am sorry if not taking an extremist view is unacceptable to you. And I am sorry if you cannot allow someone to disagree. As I said, what either of us says will have little effect on what happens.

I am not publicly excoriating anyone, nor do I support harming anyone. But, again, I do have empathy for others who might not see things as I do.

Just Jennifer said...

I am a bit puzzled. You mentioned a link to a Fox affiliate. I can't seem to find it.

Elizabeth said...

It is given in the previous post. Maybe you should read them.

Just Jennifer said...

The only link I have seen is to the article by Williams.

Just Jennifer said...

I apologize. Yes, I had missed that link. I had overlooked it, because I expected a clickable link, and this one was not. My bad.

I appreciate the link. Not really much there I had not already seen, except the comments about students being offered the use of the faculty bathroom. How well that would work would depend on how many prefer that option.

It still seems simpler for one student to have access to it than for a larger number.

Rosenkreuz said...

Jennifer seems to be arguing that once someone loses stealth, whether it was by choice or not, regardless of how obviously and unequivocally transsexual female they are, they should instantly be "othered" into the transgender category.

That's a dubious argument to say the least.

Now, to be fair, there have been people who have attempted to use the transgender designation to harass females in bathrooms and other nasty things, but one has to use their judgment and realize this is clearly not the case.

As of now, I don't see any reason to believe this child is anything other than a girl, and should be treated as such in all respects. Her classmates certainly seem to.

Anonymous said...

Jennifer, have you been sipping at the kook aid? Either that or you have missed the point Liz has been making, This is not an adult, not a mid life crisis transitioner demanding access to the ladies room at hi workplace. This is a child; a young girl who needs to be like all the other girls her age. It seems to me you have not experienced transsexuality in childhood or you would have immediately grasped that fact.


Just Jennifer said...

Heaven's no, that is not what I am saying at all. I do question why someone who is transsexual would choose to be out, and I do believe that a central divide between those who are transsexual, and those who identify as transgender, is that willingness, and more to the point, desire, to be out, loud and proud.

I am simply arguing that if one is truly transsexual, then I believe that it makes more sense to live one's life as simply female. And any action that does have the effect of othering oneself seems counterproductive to that goal, and I will admit, causes me to question what the true motivation is.

That said, I also recognize that their are some who, out of ignorance, cannot accept the idea that someone born with male characteristics can have a legitimate need to be female. Ironically, this is true not only of right wing extremists, but also many transgender extremists as well.

And the one point that many have missed, and in some cases have made some nasty comments against me because of having missed it, is that I am not trying to attack the student being discussed here. I don't know enough to do that, and would not presume to jump to conclusions based on what is known. My criticism, which seems to be lost on so many, is against those who would exploit this person for their own purposes.

It's funny, but if you stop, and you take a step back, take a deep breath, and actually read what has been said, the only person who has said anything about this child being a predator, or a monster is "Cristan" Williams. He is also the one who, while rather self-righteously referring to the student as "Jane Doe" has provided photos, which I also consider a very questionable invasion of privacy, perhaps as bad or worse than providing the name, He is also the one who has brought up the fact that this students parents are a lesbian couple, that this child has facial piercings, and other things that one has actually even mentioned. Hmmm... No, I've not said this student should be othered, or called transgender. That would be WIlliams, not me. Far be it from me to defend the group that pushed Proposition 8, but I don't care for liars either. Contrary to claims of "admissions" and "lies" their position has actually been consistent. Whether one agrees with them, or not, lying about what they say is not a very smart approach to countering their views.

I find the "take no prisoners" approach of extremists on either side of an issue to be disturbing. I often joke that I am a radical moderate, a member of the extreme center. But it is often a joke that is also very true.

Please, I really don't care if you agree with me, or not. But I would ask, nay, demand, one thing. Don't put words in my mouth. I see enough of that tactic from Williams. It is, along with straw man arguments, and often outright lies, one of his favorite tactics.

No, I have not said this child should be othered. In fact, that is pretty much the opposite of what I have said.

Just Jennifer said...

I had to split this into two parts,,,here is the rest

Try reading what someone actually says, then thinking about it, and if you think, perhaps, they have mean something they have not explicitly said, ask them before you jump to a conclusion that just might be totally wrong.

No, I have not said much of anything about the child in question, simply because I don't know. I have only seen what has been said people with an agenda to push, and I tend to take such statements with a grain of salt. Sorry if anyone wants to fault me for not blinding accepting everything Williams has claimed, but I would not more do that than blindly accept everything by PJI.

No, I don't care for "Cristan" WIlliams and yes, his involvement has certainly influenced my views concerning this case. My views concerning this CASE not the student involved. To be quiet honest, the ONLY things I now for certain are the name of the high school, the name of the principal, and POSSIBLY what the student looks like. And that last one is bot certain. Beyond that, I haven't see much, one way or the other, that I can accept as actual, reliable fact.

And no, unlike some, I am not angry...just very deeply hurt and disappointed.

All that said, I honestly do hope, when the dust settles, that this child does not suffer harm. I do have serious concerns in that regard.

Just Jennifer said...

My comments were in response to Rosencruz, but they work as well for Cassandra. Yes, I understand quite well the need to feel normal. And that is why I have said, more than once, that in cases like this, I think it better if stealth is the approach. Now, again, I don't know the details here. We don't really know how word got out. But it has, and this child is being used by extremists on both sides. That is what I have a problem with. I think the situation needs to be defused, not escalated at the expense of a child.

Elizabeth said...

@Just Jennifer

You just do not understand do you? Transsexual children CANNOT be stealth unless they are home schooled and then they miss the socialization.

The child and her parents were quietly out to the school and her fellow students. PJI outed her to the world not the parents. It is necessary for the child's safety that she not hide it because that is how kids like me get seriously hurt.

Well I for one am appreciative of Cristan Williams debunking the bullshit put forth by PJI and if you cannot look at it that way then I feel you are the one not looking at the facts which are their in audio interviews. I assume those pics were given by the mom and for good reason.

Those pictures debunk every freaking word said by the PJI. If you cannot see that you are blind.

Just Jennifer said...

No, I disagree. It is not a matter of understanding. It is a difference of opinion. I don't claim perfection, so I could be wrong. But I don't agree.

Out is out. I don't see how one can be quietly out. Unless the people who know are restrained (like a doctor or possibly the school) or can be trusted, people gossip. I think stealth is both possible and preferable. If you don't, that is your right. Sadly, once you are out, you are to some degree othered. That is simply human nature.

All Williams has done is engage in self-promotion. He has pushed tho story everywhere he can, and he is loathe to see it die. Lying, and he has even in this case, is not a good idea. That will help PJI, not hurt them. Claiming people have "admitted" things, when they haven't is lame.

And I don't judge on appearances. I have seen trans you would swear were born women...until you talk to them and realize they are not. I honestly don't know enough to reach a conclusion here, and would certainly not do so based on a photo.

Elizabeth said...

@Just Jennifer

Wow you are just so wrong. Out for a child is significantly different than for adults. I have far more experience in this venue than you can possibly ever understand because I lived it. The school administrators and the teachers need to know because accommodations need to be made for gym and other things.

It is a matter of safety for the child and it is VERY important the other children know the child is transsexual for her safety. Someone will find out somehow and the child's safety is in danger. I do not expect someone like you to understand that but I lived it and have helped 10 kids through it from the beginning of transition to SRS and it is the only way to do it.

After they have SRS they can change all the records and go off and live their lives and all of ours do. They live quietly because stealth is an illusion unless you move halfway around the world and leave everything behind which a close friend did.

Your kid(s) know as does your wife and others so you live quietly but not in stealth. That child would have existed quietly but for PJI and you seem unwillingly to realize that. She was accepted by most of the other kids because it is blatantly obvious she is a GIRL.

Kids react when they are confused and when rumors abound. If a boy is attracted to her and finds out she can be both physically and emotionally harmed. I do not expect you to understand that because you have no clue about what it is like for a kid.

As for your claims that Cristan Williams lied I wish you would point out the lies. Admitted was a poor choice of words but PJI certainly exposed their stupidity and adnitted it by continually changing their claims which is admission enough.

Since I have no clue whether Williams has had SRS or not I would appreciate it if you dropped the Mr. since in this case Williams has done a good thing.

As for your claim you do not know enough I find that dubious to be blunt. That is a 16 year old teenager that transitioned over two years ago and according to her mom never passed as a boy and again I understand you have no understanding of that situation.

There are audio interviews with the mother who explains all of this but then somehow that is not enough proof for you. My best guess is you wouldn't recognize a child transsexual if somehow they bit you on your ass to wake you up.

14 year old kids DO NOT transition on a whim and live successfully as a girl for two years in another school system and find acceptance like this child has. basically the majority of the town is supporting her but then that is not enough for you.

You are just blinded by your hatred for Williams and please do not hand me the bullshit you are not because I read your blog. You two go at it like it is the World Wide Wrestling, only for real.

Do yourself a favor on this subject because in general we agree and I like you but just quit sticking your foot in your mouth and chewing on it.

Anonymous said...

The problem is that JJ is what she is always railing at.

So, let's judge JJ by HER OWN criteria -

Late transitioner - yes
Was married as a man - yes
Fathered children - yes
Techie - yes

By that criteria which she herself espouses, she would be defined a man in her blog.

JJ is just a hypocrite who hasn't a clue what life is like for classic TS. While we were busy living as the women we are she was still a married MAN who was knocking about the missus.

The moral of this comment - those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones JJ.

Elizabeth said...


Okay can the nastiness and if you are going to be nasty at least give me a name. Jennifer cannot respond in like if she has no clue who it is but maybe she knows.?

Just Jennifer said...

I agree about the school. Yes, they have to know. But once other kids know, things will go wrong. You cannot control such things. It will not be good. I know you lived it, but times have changed. Some better, some bad.

As to the rest, we see things differently. I can accept that. Can you?

And unless I see information that comes through a more reliable source, I consider a lot of questions to remain unanswered.

Just Jennifer said...

To our anonymous troll, they are claiming I hold people to criteria that I do not. And beyond that, they are distorting my history to boot. I have a suspicion as to who it might be, but one never knows for sure. I do know they are simply wrong.

Elizabeth said...

@Just Jennifer

Do you have reading comprehension issues? I deal with kids going through this continually. We have two that are transitioned and heading towards SRS as you read this and that is how it HAS TO BE DONE.

How the hell would you know it is different for kids today? What experience do you have dealing with this kind of crap? Not one damn iota.

Almost universally these kids are heterosexual girls with all the issues that brings for teenage girls. You have not one single iota of a clue about the dangers they face if in your fantasized stealth world in school. It is impossible and too dangerous to attempt and NO they will not always be out.

Once they have SRS they simply fold into society if that is their wish and most do. If they do not that is there choice and you do not get to judge them because you are not worthy to be blunt.

I cannot see that we see things differently because you have no basis for your views other than your hatred of Williams and her ilk. You know nothing of the children and what they can and do go through. Many times the single most important thing is acceptance by their peers.

Think about that for a minute and get your head out of your ass. Lord, another know-it-all that has no clue about the kids but passes judgement although claiming she does not.

You have the common sense of a granite cement post.

Just Jennifer said...

So, in your view, if I don't blindly accept what you say, if I have an opinion based on my experiences, which you really don't know all the details of, that entitles you to insult me?

Again, I do not hate anyone.

I have years of experience working in research and counseling. I very probably have dealt with a much broader range of transsexuals and transgender people than you. But, I am not going to claim infallibility, just the absolute right to have my own opinion.

Yes, I agree, you cannot see... I do see where you are coming from. I respect your opinion, and I understand why you see things the way you do. I will even concede that you might be right. But, at this point, you have not persuaded me. The fact that you resort to insults does not help your case.

No, I have said, more than once, that there are things I don't know. I am not the one who is acting as a know-it-all. I am just following my own conscience, my own understanding, and by own morals. I don't demand you accept my view, nor do I demand that you abandon yours. So, I would appreciate you simply extend me that same courtesy.

Simply put, I am always open to persuasion, but I do not respond well to being dictated to.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately for JJ I know we more about her than I think she would find comfortable! I am NOT the anonymous poster however. I sign my comments because I stand by what I say.

Living an undisclosed life is a subject on which I am an authority, believe me when I tell you Jennifer you are clueless on the subject. Liz has done for more with kids who are TS than I have. I do have some experience but it does not amount to more than a quarter of Elizabeth's, if that. The couple of kids I knew were both out to their schools and their friends. The interesting thing is a that children do not carry the prejudices and preconceptions that adults do. Education authorities seem to more readily accept and support the child than they would if it was one of the teachers for example.
This particular child is what, 15? If she is stealth and with a boyfriend who makes advances she would not have the experience to deal with tha situation and when he finds out a 15 year old boy is not going to be happy. On those grounds alone she must be out.

I'm no fan of Williams believe me but in this instance she's done good work. Kind of makes up for her Nikki Araguz debacle.


Kathryn Dumke said...

"And unless I see information that comes through a more reliable source, I consider a lot of questions to remain unanswered. "

This is the part of your argument I don't understand. If Cristan Williams had editorialized the data then I would understand your comments. But she provided the raw data, actual interviews in which the participants expressed their views, concerns and positions. What form of confirmation do you require to that this young girl is transsexual. Not being stealth at that age seems to be normal. The ultimate health care and educational decisions are still made by the parents, they are made in the context and circumstance of the parents lives (as with all children) which means moving to a different city or something like that is not in the cards.

Do you suspect the tapes are doctored ad if so on what basis?

Anonymous said...

As Cassandraspeaks points out, JJ's history is spread out far and wide for all who do just the smallest amount of digging. And it's not a nice history either - including a spell where a nasty male troll.

Now, getting back to the facts of the situation, JJ still can't see for the blinkers she is wearing. The situation is totally different for kids than it is for adults and a support network needs to be in place for children who are TS.

This kid needs support - not damnation because of who the messenger is.

I repeat it - JJ just hasn't got a clue about the lives of those of us who are classic TS. She is a late transitioner who used male privilege while some of us were finding out the hard way what it means to be a woman - ie a 2nd class citizen.

A Classic TS

Just Jennifer said...

No, you think you know stuff. About 80% of what people "know" is outright lies, and much of the rest is distortion. And no, I won't provide facts to refute it, because that would be, well, insane. I have enough problem with people stalkinge as it is.

I do find it amusing when some tend to judge others based on criteria more akin to Blanchard-Bailey while getting upset if judged by their standards.

No, I was not as lucky as some. When I was a child, I thought my situation was hopeless. When I did learn there was hope, I was dissuaded by bad information. When I learned better, I began transition, though yes, I went back for seven years during which I tried to find a compromise. Why did I go back? Mainly because of a very incompetent therapist who would not deal with issues I was struggling with.

So, yes, when I finally was able, after many years of suffering, to have my surgery, I was older than I would have liked. But, my life is greatly improved. And no, I won't give you details. But hey, if you need to put me down to reassure yourself...have at it. I have heard it all and tend to have a good laugh at how silly it all is.

As to the rest, it is not as cut and dried as you demand. I agree, dating can be an issue, and yes, I have been there and done that. It is tricky, but being out is not the only answer.

Anonymous said...

JJ has a severe case of the verbal 2 bob bits.

Anonymous said...

Has "Tommy" been out to play recently?

Just Jennifer said...

ROTFL! As I said, this person is almost certainly not a classic transsexual. If it is who I suspect it might be, the person has not even had surgery.

Again, most of my supposed history is from the imagination of that one troll. And yeah, I think I know who this is. A person who spent years stalking people online.

I do love how this troll tries to appeal to others basic insecurities. Nah, not a classic TS, not a TS at all.

Just Jennifer said...

ROTFL! I don't know too many who have music as part of their phone calls. We hear what Williams provides. Interviews often involve discussions before over what will be asked, and if there is bias, over what is desired. Yeah, the PJI one is pretty much raw, though I notice Williams feels the need to tell us what it says, rather than letting us think on our own. Even if I agree with someone, I don't like that.

I have studied journalism, and worked in public relations. I know a few tricks. Williams is pretty much an amateur at it.

Anonymous said...

Then how do you account for me and my own knowledge of you Jennifer? Look this isn't about you or me or who and whom isn't TS. This is about a young girl who needs to get her body corrected and in the mean time grow into a woman who is a happy and useful member of society. Her opportunity for an undisclosed life will come later if that. Is indeed what she wants Until then she needs to be treated the same as other girls in her school and not be sent off to a special bathroom every time she needs to pee for crissake. That very act is of itself a bad enough experience for her believe me I know. I keep saying it this is not a midlifecrisistransition.


Just Jennifer said...

Simply put, there are no easy answers here. None of us can really say what will work out best. We don't have enough information, and are not likely to get it. I have an opinion, though it had little meaning in deciding what is going to happen. No one else can saying more. Getting bent out of shape, slinging insults, dragging up lies from a very disturbed troll, accomplish little and really don't speak well of those doing it.

How are you able to find stuff supposedly about me? About 15 or so years ago, I screwed up and sent someone an email from the wrong account. It is THAT simple. A troll who was harassing me, who is a very obsessive and disturbed person has posted lies about me over the years. Again, what you think you know is largely false. Some is distortion, most outright fabrication. None of it is really ANY of your business. If you need to pick through imaginary gossip to feel better about yourself, well I honestly pity you. And I pity anyone who can't handle disagreement without getting vicious. We are expressing opinions. No one is going to act based on what we say. Getting bent out of shape because someone is not in lockstep seems kind of, well, extreme. Or, at the very least, highly insecure.

Just Jennifer said...

Oh, and I posted this earlier on the wrong thread....

ROTFL! Really? Is that supposed to devastate me? A meaningless name? What a loser.

Anonymous said...

JJ - over many years you have antagonised a whole trail of people.

Hasn't anyone ever told you that when you are in a hole it is advisable to stop digging?

Could be any one of several people JJ has antagonised.

Just Jennifer said...

How many years did you stalk Blake? He finally gave in, so you need a new obsession. Get help. Seriously, get help.

Elizabeth said...

@Just Jennifer

No easy answers here? I guess the ten kids we have helped DO NOT count in your mythical world where you have this mythical experience working with lots of transsexuals NONE of whom are children. Most people respond to kids like this positively because there is NO doubt the child is a girl and not a boy.

You deny the pictures. You deny the audio interviews. You deny everything based on your hatred of Williams and please do not hand me your crap about not hating Williams because it is all over your blog and you despise Williams.

In ALL cases the child transsexual needs to come first. She is absolutely NO threat to anyone and your silliness implies you do not believe in this kid and clearly shows you know not one thing about how kids react to transsexual kids they meet.

In your own way you give support to PJI and credence to their lunatic views. Your position is to heck with the kid because nobody has disproved what PJI is saying. Think about that for a while.

I suppose you have no comment about the comment by another lunatic that this "boy" is visually raping the girls in the rest room.

Maybe you should go to PJI and join forces with then to have AB1266 removed as law. I don't drink much but you make me think about a drink. The child always gets the benefit of the doubt and I do not know a single person born transsexual that would not think that way. You are the lone one I have heard of.