Saturday, October 19, 2013

Florence Colorado Harassment Case: No Proof transsexual kid harassed any girl(s)

I have always had a policy towards children that is rigid and unwavering. I do not care if the child is trans, transsexual, gay, lesbian or a warthog, they should not be harassed or harmed or brought to public attention by anyone. I supported California Bill AB1266 because I knew factually that multiple cities had such a policy and had not one single incident with any child attempting to abuse the rules.

This issue with the teenage girl in Florence Colorado is one where a parent complained because of a transitioned MTF teenager using the girl's bathrooms. I do not believe for one second that any child or teenager would go through the pain of transition "just" to harass girls in the bathroom. Charges would have to be filed and the child convicted before I would believe that and I speak from both personal experience and from the experience of helping 10 kids down this path. If this did happen I would be very upset by it.

I know how difficult it is for a kid to transition or for a kid to even be known as transsexual in high school and it is not something ANY kid really wants to go through with but sometimes you have to do what is needed to live. It takes more courage than almost all of you can possibly understand. To walk into a high school where everyone KNOWS you believe you are a girl but you are still physically a boy is akin to walking the gauntlet every day. That is not a choice but a necessity for the kid to survive.

Even if I had my doubts about a kid I would keep my mouth shut because the kid comes first. I give the kid the benefit of the doubt unless proven otherwise and this case has nothing on the otherwise side but a group of idiots that believe you can cure gay and probably are vehement supporters of J Michael Bailey. They are also supported by the radical feminists represented by Cathy Brennan which is an odd pairing. Radical lesbian feminists and conservative wingnuts that both hate transsexuals. A match made in hell which will of course be made into a transgender issue, which it is not. Transsexuals transition in high school. Transgender kids do not because the terminology is too broad but then that is the reason they insist on using transgender.

I am sure this poor kid was just getting on with her life and probably trying to take it day by day because that is what you have to do. You know people will say things because you cannot legislate against stupid but a transitioned kid needs to be protected from these assholes because she most certainly did not want her existence spread across the world. even in my day I had few issues after the "word" got out but the girl's bathroom was out in the 50's. It was just how it was.

Journalism is dead in the age of  the Internet. Nobody checks facts and every want-to-be-famous activist jumps on the bandwagon of a story like this. I am sure she welcomes any support but I am also sure she wishes everyone would go away and just let her be a girl. Some activists jump on these cases because without them they have no worth or they feel somehow they are the champion of everything trans, they are not but don't try to explain that to them. In their own way they are sometimes as bad as the assholes doing the lying although in this case I am not so sure. The story will die a quiet and well deserved death because every reputable outlet understands it was fabricated, even Fox News.

Sometimes I really do wonder about people.


Just Jennifer said...

Sorry, but while I once would have agreed with you, the rise of transgender extremism has muddied the waters. In this case, it seems pretty clear that this student is not attempting to be a female, but to be a transgender. High school students are more mature today than they were in the past.

In this case, as in the case of the "homecoming queen," it appears that the student is quite out, and is not trying to maintain any read modicum of privacy.

If a teenager really wants to transition, then they should be allowed to transfer to another school and given privacy. Making a grand show of transitioning in a school where one is established as a male (or female) seems rather counterproductive, unless one wishes to be "transgender."

Yes, some will go for political correctness and "accept" the student, but others will not do so, which you would think would not be conducive to a comfortable situation for a true transsexual.

Elizabeth said...

Please show me some evidence that what you say is true Jennifer. I am always willing to listen but I have seen nothing that backs up what you are saying and the school itself said the kid did not harass anyone.

Someone is lying here and that requires a little proof to support your view and that does not mean some wingnut parent upset because a kid transitioned at her daughter's school.

If you have a link that supports the premise the child has not attempted to assimilate then provide one because I cannot find one.

Elizabeth said...


“I know that they’re trying to tell her that she can’t use the females restroom and I think that’s kind of wrong because she’s trying to be a girl,” she said."

A fellow female student comment.

It seems she started the school year as a girl or that is the implication and this Fox News.

Just Jennifer said...

I am simply saying that compromise is needed to protect everyone's rights. It is obvious that this student is well known as being male. That would make a number of female students very uncomfortable. Provision for their feeling should also be considered.

Not being able to use the girl's room at school is not going to do serious harm to this student. Not being able to use the restroom would. A private restroom (most schools have them either in a nurses office, or for faculty) could be provided. That would allow this student a safe place to pee, and no cause a number of students upset.

I would think, if this student really is transsexual, and not simply "transgender" not upsetting other girls would be preferable.

I understand the affirmation that comes from being able to use the proper restroom, but that affirmation comes from being their properly, not forcing your way in.

Elizabeth said...


You initially said this kid was not trying to be female and quite bluntly that is false. This kid was not trying to be a transgender role model she was just trying to be a girl like the natal girl said when interviewed.

The initial decision was the schools and not the kids but it is also clear the kid transitioned and started school this year as a girl. You are commenting on something you have not got one fucking clue about and that goes for Cristan Williams and the transgender activists.

Not one of you went through this as a kid so maybe you should all just STFU and let the kid get on with her life as a girl. I understand you did not start the "noise" about this and I also "understand" Williams will milk this cow until it is dry but that should be something you should not do.

I know what she goes through. Every single day she walks into that school people "look" at her and some people are nice and some are not. She is not a threat to anyone. It is not as if this is some 45 year old jackass going to college and donning a dress and displaying his balls and dick in the sauna.

I have said this before and I will say it again. No kid is going to go through the psychological trauma of transitioning in high school in order to harass or otherwise hurt girls. Even if they never get SRS their intent is not to hurt anyone. Kids just do not think that way and I have nearly 40 years of helping kids through this process to back that statement up. If any of you had actually done it you would know what I am talking about.

In her case the school said use the girl's bathroom, so she did. She was not trying to "make" transgender news, she was just trying to be a girl and make it through the next day in one piece and now some asshole has hurt this kid.

The school and the police have both stated she did nothing wrong so what the heck is the real problem here? Of the ten kids I have helped some have used the girls room and others used private bathrooms but none have used the boy's bathroom.

There is no indication this kid has upset anyone but a wingnut parent, some radfem lesbians, and a few people that should know better. Unfortunately for this kid the damage is done and the odds are very high she is transsexual but then I rather doubt those jumping on her would understand the reason why.

Jessica said...

Long time, no comment, Notes from the T-Side.


With due respect, Jennifer, as much as I love your blog, as well as how much we usually agree on matters regarding those of Francis, Sandeen, Williams, Roberts, and those types, I'm not sure how this story falls under such a case.

The evidence against is one total parent, as Elizabeth mentioned and everyone else has spoken basically in her favor. Yes, some students may know her as male, but Florence itself is a town of under 4,000 in total, as of the 2010 Census, seems like this is just a small school. By nature of these small schools, everybody usually knows everybody, like they did at my school. which was on the small side itself. To add on to that, my graduating class was 137, and I could describe each person from this class to you.

And let's put me in this context: I'm a transitioning student (this is true), I'm Type VI, I surely have an end goal/cure of SRS, next December, to be exact, but because some students where I go may have "known me as male", I shouldn't be using the ladies room, because, hypothetically, one person complained, even though I'm assimilating successfully (which is no hypothetical situation; this is true, about 99.9% of the time), by all other classmates, professors, and so on?

I want to bring attention to this, as well, "I would think, if this student really is transsexual, and not simply "transgender" not upsetting other girls would be preferable." Sure. But as you know, you can't please all of the people, all of the time. Doesn't sound like she's trying bother, disturb anyone, this isn't Francis trying to trying to cause a stir, promote, "I am TG LOUD AND PROUD, GIVE ME RIGHTS OR ELSE!!"

Granted, I'm a university student, and I've seen some odd things people are trying out, like "genderqueer", because they probably think it's cool to play with this stuff, or God knows why. But I just hope everyone thinks okay of me. That's all I ask for at the end of the day, of my fellow student or professor. (That, and to be rid of that wretched skin tube.)

It is different as a student. If you have not been there, I don't mind your (anyone's) opinion, and I can respect it, and am willing to see where we might agree, or how we might learn from one another's differences. But it is different. Don't say you've been there when you haven't. I do this sure as hell not to harm, disturb others, but because the only other "choice" I had was death itself. I worry what others think, because that THING is STILL there, and that pain hurts, as I'm sure you know. Not to mention, avoiding showing the brunt of this pain off in the form of a facial expression of wincing, or pain, or a soft tear, either for body or my future of being unable to carry a child, as unavoidable.


PS: Thanks as always for the blog, Liz (and Jennifer), you give me great relief and reassurance that not everyone believes in such TG nonsense these days, in a general sense.

Just Jennifer said...

The fact that this is a small town makes a compromise a better choice. Almost all if the "evidence" in this case has come from "Cristan" Williams. The closest I have seen to an independent, unbiased fact is the statement that about 30% of female students are unhappy. I suspect that actually translates to "upset and not afraid to speak up." Given that, I am erring on the side of caution and not jumping on board the TG juggernaut that is attempting to bury this's issue.

There will, for most of us, always be some who "know" especially early on. What I am talking about, in cases like this, is a very public transition. We all, to a degree, face a choice. In my case, I was somewhat fortunate. I lived in a large city, and I moved a few months before I went full time. Even though I largely "presented" as male for a few months, I didn't pass as one. My neighbors assed I was a woman, and I did not correct them. But here, there is a situation of telling everyone, quite publicly, what is going on. That may be inevitable for some who are older, but it seems odd for someone odd, who could probably make a much smoother transition with a small effort.

Increasingly, younger people seem to be choosing very TG pathes. That may be the influence of the kooks, but if they are truly transsexual, or even if they are not, it will not be to their benefit.

As to students, I remember one local case that involved a rather well known person. Said person did a public access show called "Tranny Talk," and also attended the local community college where he bullied his way into the women's room. Now, this is San Francisco, but this person caused outrage. Ironically, I was at the same school about a year earlier, and never had a single issue.

I think what is needed is common sense. When I began transition, I did not head straight for the ladies room. At first, I sought out less trafficked locations, and took time to make sure I was not causing a stir. Soon, I felt secure, and never had a problem. It is all about common sense. Something the TG crowd seems to hate.

Elizabeth said...

@Just Jennifer

Please supply the link where 30% of the female students were unhappy. I did extensive searching and have not found that but I did find the school Principle saying there was NO harassment and other female students saying there was no issue and I supplied a link to that from a FOX affiliate.

You transitioned late in life so please do not even attempt to equate what this kid is going through and yourself and THIS WAS NOT a openly public transition and that comment is total bullshit,

By definition if you transition it is public when you transition in your old school. I do not give a rats ass if you think kids are taking TG positions because you do not work with them and I do. They don't know any better because the fucking therapists all spout the TG line but this kid transitioned and was trying to just be a girl and nobody would have given a rats ass until some right wing wingnut decided to hurt a child.

You transitioned late in life as an adult so again it is not even close to the same so stop making that analogy. It is completely different for a teenager.

Kids are different and they are special. Only a fucking coward does this to a child and I do not give a rats ass whether the kid is TS, TG, trans, gay, lesbian, or gender questioning. You do not hurt children and you DO NOT make them public unless they make themselves public with their actions and this kid did not.

Just Jennifer said...

I usually have a great deal of respect for you, but in this one, I think you are letting emotions cloud reason. My history is a bit more complex than most, and I don't appreciate you trying to play the late transition card. Ideally, I would have transitioned early, like I originally wanted to. There were some very real factors that held me back...the main one being a lack of resources. Alabama in the 1970s was not exactly crawling with therapists who dealt with transsexualism.

I stand by what I say. This is a case where moderation and compromise should prevail. All I see are two extremes tearing at each other. That is not good for anyone, including the student who is being used by extremists like Williams to push an agenda.

I tend to look at both sides of an issue. Apparently some can't or won't.

I do know this...facts are very sparse in this case. I don't trust Williams at all.

Elizabeth said...

@Just Jennifer

Your hatred for Cristan Williams has clouded your view of this child and this issue. Hatred is the most virulent emotion so if I was you I would not bring up emotion.

There is no compromise here because there is no issue here according to the town, the city and the kids at the school. It is the Pacific Justice Institute that is in the wrong here.

Moderation and compromise should prevail? That is a girl and I think it is really sad that you would marginalize her life by telling her she cannot use the girl's bathroom.

Your hatred for Cristan Williams could not possibly allow you to look at both sides of the argument. If Williams said the sun rises in the East and settles in the west you would argue the point. By the way that point is "technically arguable based on the time of the year.

Just Jennifer said...

I don't hate anyone. I hate the extremism that Williams pushes. Be honest, aside from the propaganda published by Williams, how do you know there is no issue? Can you point to any other source? Seriously?

If you have some other, reliable, and unbiased source of information, please cite it. If your information is based only one what Williams has said, that would be no better than relying only on what PJI says. Seriously, if you know of a better source of information, from a valid news source, I would appreciate you sharing it. But at present, about all I have seen is what Williams is presenting, and I know that is no more reliable than taking everything from PJI as fact.

And no, if Williams repeats something I know, based on other, reliable sources, to be fact, I might be a bit surprised, but I would not reject it.

Elizabeth said...

@Just Jennifer

I provided a link from a FOX news affiliate which you obviously ignored. You are just so predictable. Williams is my enemy so this kid must be somehow not legit.

Sometimes being deaf, dumb, and blind cannot be overlooked.

How do you KNOW there is an issue Jennifer? PJI has changed their complaint multiple times so who has contradicted themselves again?

Get your head out of the sand and have a heart.

Just Jennifer said...

Are you reading what I actually say, or are you assuming I am saying stuff I am not? I don't want this child harmed, but that includes this child not being used as a pawn by extremists. AllI have said is that I would prefer a compromise that takes all students rights into consideration. That is all I am saying. I am not saying that this child should be harmed. I am not saying that this child should be made to return to being a male. I am just saying that rights have to be balanced. Now, if that makes you angry, I am sorry. You would not bethe first person I have made angry. But if that is going to cause you to continue attacking me, and to insult me, that I find very disappointing. I would have expected better. I admit that I don't know all the facts here. But I do understand how people tend to feel. It is called empathy, and it is something that some, particularly, extremists, tend to lack.

If you want to fault me for having it, well...that is just truly sad.

The bottom line is, neither of us has any real say in this matter. What happens is out of both of our hands. I respect your right to disagree with me, but I would ask the same from you. But you don't seem able to extend that consideration

Anonymous said...

And how on earth could a writer of junk trannie fiction who was a married father of children ever truly understand what a TS child goes through in their youth?

JJ hasn't a clue on this issue.

She bandies about the Bailey term "autogynophylliac" for those who disagrees with her - even those diagnosed as classic TS, but has failed to look in the mirror as she fits the Bailey/Blanchard criteria for AG perfectly.

A Type VI.

Just Jennifer said...

ROTFL! I have to this a certain troll who tends to regularly stalk me? Certainly the usual lies. In any case, most who feel the need to claim to be a Type IV aren't...not even close.

Just Jennifer said...

ROTFL! Really? Is that supposed to devastate me? A meaningless name? What a loser.

Just Jennifer said...

Whoops, wrong thread.