Saturday, October 26, 2013

Sometimes I Really Do Wonder

Sometimes I really do wonder where people are coming from and whether they actually have the capability to honestly understand what they are saying on the Internet will last in an archive somewhere forever. We all make dopey and stupid posts and comments because sometimes we just are maybe  in a bad mood or the post or person we are causes us great consternation and you go overboard. Sometimes there are people that just irritate you to your very core and others you realize seemingly do it on purpose.

June Hingle is one of those people and primarily it is because she says the weirdest and most vicious things about me including one comment where she claimed, "I spent my youth parading around with my gay boyfriends", or something akin to that. Not a single word of it was true but that did not bother June Hingle. The weird thing is I do not hate June Hingle nor do I go out of my way to amuse myself by talking about such a tortured soul as hers. I have said some nasty things to June that probably should not have been said but sometimes my Welsh temper overloads my kindly nature and I strike back.

Black Swan is another person whose comments exasperate me a lot and we have had some very heated exchanges. She actually went to Boston Massachusetts in a direct attempt to find out who I am based on certain information she thought relevant. What she would have done with that information is anyone's guess but at the time I feared it would have been put to a use I would not have enjoyed. The funny thing is I actually kind of really like Black Swan in a weird sort of way. I know her story and who she is and believe me I could hurt her but I would never do that because that is truly against my nature. I have even deleted her comments that inadvertently would have outed her because it was apparent she was drunk. I doubt she would do the same for me and someone else I call a dear friend.

I was never a naturally assertive person and a lot of that can be traced back to being a young transsexual and the affects that had on my life early on.  even in Houston where I was an expert in certain areas I went to a mentor when I had issues because I feared making waves or rocking the boat. I once recognized we would have a metallurgy problem with a certain set of hardware when a proposed vendor change was mentioned. I was right but I went to someone else who stopped it because it would have prevented us from launching and that could not be allowed.

Even in NYC on the site I managed for my Uncle I went to my Uncle when soft steel was found. I could have been assertive but it was just not me. I made a lot of friends within the steel worker union because I listened but even that took a while to sink in. The first time I was ever assertive personally was in the Business we owned in California with close friends. A certain company refused to talk with women and my first husband told me to handle it and I actually did. I think I told them we did not need them but they needed us and I managed the company day-to-day business so they could talk with me or I would simply call a certain heated rival and see how they felt about working with me. It worked and actually set a precedent for women in that industry.

I learned to be assertive in my world of Engineering but it was always something I have had to work on because it never came naturally. I was absolutely never assertive with boys or men but always timid and shy except for my first husband who I pursued and that was in a way good and very bad. The good my daughter and the bad the 7 figures he took me for. I consider it a wash.

This Jane Doe incident in Florence Colorado has really hit home for me. I look at her and I see myself over 50 years ago and it makes one think of what happened in my life and it suddenly dawned on me I was actually assertive once as a 13 year old. Okay maybe it was as much anger and fear but I was assertive, if screaming is assertive, and it probably saved my life because I was one screwed up teenager right about then. I did not understand why I was the way I was and it was ripping me apart.

A boy kissed me in front of some people that thought I was a "real" girl and I kissed him back because I admit I had wanted him to kiss me for a while. I knew it would get out it was me and my life was dog food when the word got out so I ran out of the place into a raging late season Nor'easter and since I was skimpily dressed jumped into the back seat of the car that had brought us there for self preservation because I was freezing.

That darn boy jumped in the back seat with me and disarmed me by putting his coat around me to warm me up. Why did he do that was all I could think of? I remember I screamed at him that he had killed me by kissing me which was weird because I wanted to die believe it or not. He then asked me why I had kissed him back and I then told him everything about me and how I felt but not until later why I kissed him back. Actually I screamed it at him between sobs because I had a doctorate in crying and I remember his eyes to this day when I screamed I am a girl and why can't anyone see that or something like that. He then told me I had somehow screwed up every boys head in school because boys think about two things, sports and girls, and he assured me sports came in a distant second. Who knew?

That girl in Colorado is really hurting right now and my guess is she is wondering why some people cannot realize she is just a girl. Sometimes it just feels like the world is crushing you when you are that young and transsexual. I would wager she does not and never will understand why she is this way but like me and others she knows to her very essence she is simply a girl. It is what drives us to transition or push the envelope in a society that will not let you be as you should be. I thought and hoped that that nightmare scenario was over with but I should have realized it can never be over with for kids like Jane Doe and me until our SRS.

Jane Doe is so typical of the kids I have helped because the facts are very obvious. Like most feminine transsexuals she has probably very low testosterone levels. At 12 mine were similar to girls that age which probably meant puberty had not kicked in. My doctor at Children's told my mother I would have been sterile or at least there was a high probability which I was not told of, not that using that disgusting thing mattered to me. Jane Doe is what Harry would have called a kid with complete psychosexual inversion which basically means, like me, she just knew she was a girl and nobody was convincing her otherwise.

I am sure she realizes she is transsexual and probably transgender but neither of those terms are actually relevant because Jane is simply a little girl whose body somehow lost its way during development because if that is not a girl then this world is just so wrong I can never understand it. I am also quite sure before she transitioned she had incredibly low self esteem because for kids like us not being "correct" physically is crushing and we can be very self destructive and I know that from personal experience.

I am also betting that when she transitioned it was like someone lifted the weight of the world off her shoulders. Watching your body turn even more feminine as breasts develop is life affirming to kids like us. It seems like you have escaped the grips of that nightmarish thought you would grow up to be a boy. It is that single terrifying thought that forces us into the actions we take. Sometimes those actions can be self destructive and sometimes they are not.

After I started hormones I made absolutely no attempt to hide my budding breasts except near my grandmother but even she knew.  I remember in school how boys started looking and staring at them which was in a way quite nice. My boyfriend certainly seemed interested. They also probably led to my rape but that was in the works for that pervert long before that day.

Dr. Benjamin had actually written a letter to the school intimating it might be a good idea to excuse me from boy's gym which was mandatory as were the white short shorts and white tee-shirts both boys and girls had to wear to gym. I remember my gym teacher finally telling me to leave and never come back to gym because it seemed the boys could not take their eyes of my breasts or bouncing breasts as I moved around or whatever they called it. I was rather pleased with that actually. My boyfriend was actually quite jealous other boys noticed and I liked that also.

Reactions like this are universal among all the kids I have helped in the last 40+ years. I can tell you we have two kids basically the same age as Jane right now and both are worried this could happen to them but they are in Britain so hopefully they are safer from cyber bullying but then how do you stop it?

I have tried to stay as calm as I can about this nightmare so I would not go ballistic and I think I have. I have found myself on the opposing side of many arguments with Cristan Williams but I have always respected what she has tried to give back in Houston because I still have friends there. Her defense of this little girl has been exemplary and above and beyond any calling and she has systematically and calmly destroyed the Pacific Justice Institute lies and distortions which is not something I could have done calmly and quietly.

The simple truth is most of us know that children are sacred and must not be harmed but there are some that let personal animus enter their view of this situation. I missed the comment you will find below and in many ways I am glad I did because I would have blown a gasket,if I had read it. The following comment came after a comment by me which reads as follows in part.

I have not read anywhere where this transitioned girl was harassing anyone. It seems to have been one very conservative parent(s) that complained and I do not believe the police were brought in and it was bathroom use for a transitioned teenager.
Have we sunk so low we would demand a transitioned MTF kid be required to use the boy's room? If you have proof that something "really" did happen I would really like to read it ......
The following was the response I thankfully missed.

The issue is, this person seems to be making no effort to assimilate as a female. I am not saying that someone transitioning should be forced into the boy's room, but that a reasonable compromise should be made. Obviously, this student's situation is well known in the school, and it is an issue. I don't believe on transgender student's right trumps the rights of others in this way. In fact, I think pressing such a demand raises serious questions about the veracity of the student's claim. If the student really identifies as a female, why does he have so little regard for other females?
I will admit I had to read it several times to actually believe what was written but I am going to discuss this line by line just because I can.

The issue is, this person seems to be making no effort to assimilate as a female.
I am really not sure I understand where that could come from. She is transitioned and has been transitioned  for over 2 years and spent the previous 2 years in another school as a girl without any issues. She is also not trying to assimilate as a female but simply be the little girl she is. The female part kind of comes with age and experience.

I am not saying that someone transitioning should be forced into the boy's room, but that a reasonable compromise should be made. 
No but you are saying she should be made to feel different and after all her socialization as a girl is a big plus. Maybe she could do what I did which was be so terrified I found a place in the basement and clean it up like I did so I could make a bathroom break a 15 minute event. You are treating her like you think she is somehow a threat, as in sexual threat, to other girls. Like I said before kids are different and all she is doing is fitting in.

Obviously, this student's situation is well known in the school, and it is an issue.
Actually it was not an issue except for one conservative freshman's mom and the local school district does have the right to make this local decision. Here you are siding with PJI and I do wonder why.

I don't believe on transgender student's right trumps the rights of others in this way.
First this is a transsexual teenager and I realize you have not one single clue what that is but I do. She is not trumping the rights of others because she is a girl. Nobody in their right mind believes she is a threat to anyone but herself, unfortunately.

In fact, I think pressing such a demand raises serious questions about the veracity of the student's claim.
Okay now this line got my dander up. What claim would that be exactly? The claim she is a girl which is undeniable in more ways than I can count. It takes a pompous asshole to make a comment like that but then I am betting you had not seen her picture at this point. I know you have since but you never retracted this comment. I find that interesting and it makes me wonder.

If the student really identifies as a female, why does he have so little regard for other females?
Where the heck do you get off assuming she has little regard for other females and where do you get off using a male pronoun for this child? That is so offensive it infuriates me and I could say some nasty things but I am going to refrain.

Unfortunately that really is who you are on the subject of this little girl. I find that sad because I would think someone who claims they were born transsexual would have some understanding what this child is going through. Apparently you are incapable of that empathy and I have to wonder if you are out helping Pacific Justice Institute gather signatures for delaying California Bill AB1266 and taking it to referendum in the fall 1014 midterm elections. Have you sunk that low?

I am not going to attempt to beat you into submission because I am not sure there is a weapon available that could dent your skull and knock some well deserved common sense into you. You are entitled to your opinion but I am entitled to tell you that calling you Clueless insults the Clueless.

I wonder how in god's name could you use a male pronoun for that child like the Pacific Justice Institute has done but then you need to look at yourself in the mirror. That was beyond insensitive but then that was the intent.

I find this entire side of you rather sad and that bothers me.


Just Jennifer said...

Do you bother reading what I actually say and then make stuff up, or do you just go off on a rant without knowing what you are carrying on about? I backed off from that earlier statement. I reacted to an early article, when I had few facts. I admit, I did what you have been doing to me for some time. Going off without knowing what I was talking about.

Since then I have NOT referred to the child with male pronouns. Or did you not notice that? You know, if you are not going to read what I say, and address that, then you are just going to keep getting stuff wrong. Not, of course, that this matters to the those with an agenda. They seem to prefer half-truths and clueless rants. I try to avoid that, and when I do make one, I try to correct it. Apparently, you can't do that.

Now, I am trying to be nice, but you are making it very hard. I have admitted I made a mistake. If you cannot recognize that, well that says something about you, not me.

I made a mistake. I admit it. You keep making mistakes, and well...that's your problem, not mine.

How could I use a male pronoun? I went with bad information. I have stopped using male pronouns to refer to the child. Or did you not notice? I have stated, for the present, I am not making any judgements EITHER WAY. That is all I feel I can honestly do. You feel differently. I can respect that. You are doing what you think is right. I am doing what I think is right. The only thing is, you think you have perfect knowledge. I don't claim to have, and well, to be quite blunt, I don't believe you do either.

Now, if you can't accept that I might actually think for myself, and disagree with you, then I think that speaks very poorly of you. I could say a lot more, but why bother? I'm not going to lower myself to that level.

Autumn Sandeen said...

Welcome to the world of JustJennifer. Don't be surprised, Elizabeth, if she starts misgendering you too for disagreeing with her.

She has long ago decided she is the final arbiter of who is and who isn't female. She has decided that Jane Doe is male, so she follows the lead of PJI and the TERFs is misgendering this teen.

Even if you don't consider me female, I would be an ally in working support her in her decision. And even if you don't consider Cristan to be a transsexual -- she is post-vaginoplasty -- because she also identifies as transgender, she is publicly doing her damn best in trying to make sure Jane Doe is identified as the girl she is, pointing out that the claims of PJI are false and are the claims of monsters, and doing her best to make sure her transsexual, transgender, and ally peers are given the chance to support Jane. And, you can tell Cristan is personally doing her best to support the teen herself.

I didn't have supportive parents like you, Elizabeth -- my parents sent me to ex-gay/ex-transgender/ex-transsexual therapy -- just like those at PJI would like to see her sent to. I may not know what it is to experience transitioning in my teens, but I definitely understand what it is to be on the receiving end of hate. To have adults "shoot down" and subject a 16-year old girl -- a minor -- to the hate that she's receiving...well, it's the behavior of monsters.

We don't agree on much, Elizabeth, but on supporting Jane Doe in her efforts to grow up from being a girl to being a woman...we're on the same page.

Elizabeth said...

@Just Jennifer

Actually I do read what you say but I actually missed that comment and as I explained in that post, if you read it completely, it bothered me that I had missed it because what you said was reprehensible in my humble opinion.

In order to have bad information that would mean you believed the mutterings of Pacific Justice Institute which is anti transsexual to its very core which means you were either stupid or you are on their side.

We all make mistakes and I have made plenty in my lifetime but never because I sided or took the word of some clowns that believe conversion therapy works. Been then and had that attempted so I got that one on you. I have also been actually working with kids like Jane Doe for 40+ years so I know what the fuck I am talking about.

I notice you have been scrambling and trying to backtrack and even your last post, I posted while you were posting I gather, would not have changed even if I had read your rather trite attempt at backtracking.

I gather you have little support for your asinine position. The simple truth is based off your own words you NOTHING about these transsexual children. Your claims that because she is out somehow causes her to be questioned is absurd. They knew in her school but she was "outed" to the world by the Pacific Justice Institute which should automatically put them on your shit list but somehow the kids ends on your shit list and thus the above indescribably insensitive comment.

I would say shame on you but obviously shame is not something you understand because you continue to claim you need further proof. Pictures, a mothers plea, words from the school, outrage by local citizens and yet you cannot decide whether the Pacific Justice Institute or this little girl should be supported.

That right there says it all. YOU DO NOT HURT CHILDREN and that is sacrosanct. Obviously it is not to you.

Elizabeth said...

@Autumn Sandeen

I did not know Cristan was post so in my eyes she is my sister. Cristan has done a wonderful thing for this child.

Jennifer would rue the day she ever attempted to mis-gender me or take me on. I have no real beef with her except for this subject although I do find her posts rough which might mean I am mellowing in my old age but probably not.

I just have never understood why you did not have SRS if you feel as you wrote in this comment. If what you said is true I have no idea why you would not be driven to SRS. It defies logic.

Just Jennifer said...

No, I would not "misgender" you for disagreeing with me. I don't misguider anyone for disagreeing with me. Williams claims to be post-op, but having surgery does not turn a man into a woman. if changes the body, not the brain.

I based what I originally said on the first article, which had been filtered through Williams, As I learned more, I backed off.

Yes, I need further proof, because none of the stuff you mention is verifiable. Pictures? I have seen pictures of transvestites that you would swear were born women. And yes, I know, this is a a child. So? Age is one factor. I have seen children who are hardened criminals. And no, I am not saying that about this child. You are projecting your feelings onto this child. That is part of the issue.

You have said I don't know what it is like to be a teenage transsexual. Poppycock. I was one. I just wasn't lucky enough to have the resources or knowledge to transition. I had a father who was abusive, and a mother who was terrified that I was going to "queer." I heard that term very early on, when it was obvious what I was. She did not know better. You had access to Harry Benjamin. I was seeing doctors who didn't have a clue.

My life would have taken a different path if I could have. I actually figured it all out when I was about 20, but the only resource I had was a University library, and what I read there scared me away from moving forward. For about fifteen years, every time I would read a biography or hear about a transsexual, those feelings would emerge, and I would remember what I read, and think "If only…" Something happened that made those feelings very hard to ignore, and I again did some research, This time, I came across something that made it clear what I had read in that book years before was wrong, and I immediately went and sought out a qualified therapist, and in very short order, I was on hormones. That was in my thirties. Late, but not that late. My first therapist was in the process of retiring at the time, and my second one changed positions. I wound up seeing someone who was supposed to be an expert. She was incompetent. Because of her, and other issues, I had a nervous breakdown, and I detransitioned in a panic. It took me seven years to work through things, and a few more to finally manage having surgery. Years of being a failure as a male took their tool, but I made it. You were lucky, and that was wonderful. I wasn't, That does not mean you get to kick me around because I see things differently.

Yeah, my posts are rough because I get fed up with men who had long, happy lives as men, and then suddenly, during a mid-life crisis, decide they are really women. Even though they still act exactly like they did before…the only difference is they wears heels and a dress now.

You should be proud though. The men in dresses crowd loves you now. You can join Cooke as one of their sycophants.

Just Jennifer said...

BTW, I did not know the PJI was the source behind the story when I wrote what I did. I know that transsexuals can't be cured by therapy. i've know that for a long time, and have argued that point with those who think they can, and forced them to admit that they cannot point to a single valid case. So, you want to try to link me with that bunch, I will call you a liar. Sandeen trying to do it does not surprise me. He is a liar almost as bad as Williams. Yeah, he can make claims, but he cannot deny that he had twenty happy and successful years in the U.S. Navy with a pretty good record, as a man. He had no trouble hiding his supposed "transsexualism." I wish I could have. I wouldn't have been regularly beaten up in junior high school, and I might have had a more successful life before I did transition. I couldn't really hide it, though most people did not realize what was really wrong. They just knew I was very defective as a male. I'm lucky I never had to go into the military, That would have probably been the end of me. I missed the draft by a year, and on one occasion I actually came close to enlisting until I came to my senses. I was trying to figure out a nice way of saying "Nevermind" when they discovered I had blood sugar issues. Even them, the recruiter confronted me and asked me if I was trying to flunk the physical. Yeah, I was, just not the way I actually did.

Just Jennifer said...

Oh, and Sandeen, you are simply full of crap, and, as usual, lying through your teeth. I have never claimed to be the final arbiter of anything. I have said, repeatedly I state an opinion, Others have a right to their own. And if you weren't so busy pushing lies, you would know I have no decided that this child is a male. But that fact does not fit your agenda, so you lie. So cut the crap. If you can't actually refute what I say, i guess lying is all you have left.

As to those who you label as TERFs, there is a lot that I disagree with them on, but they are women, and having men like you wanting to invade very private women's spaces, because you think your penis doesn't matter, is one we do share.

And again, I don't misgender. I just don't buy into your silly claims.

Elizabeth said...

@Just Jennifer

You really seem to want a fight with me based on that last paragraph. Would you like me to deconstruct you because I can if you want.

For now I will let this slide but I will say you might want to fix up your narrative a bit sis because it does not add up, just saying!!

Anonymous said...

@just Jennifer, one thing I notice about the transgender (you) is how over time the claimed narrative "develops"

Your deep involvement with the movement that was HBS and the very narrow definition of what is was to be classified as HBS is probably the cause of this gradual modification. It's very common. DK's internet rants and myopic views are quite typical of your own. They ultimately destroyed what was initially a fairly useful idea I find that sad.

There is a six year old transsexual child who has been written about in the current issue of Rolling Stone what proof of this child's claims would you require? Think about that for a moment. I told my Aunt I was a girl when four years old. Transsexuality usually shows itself very early in life. I watched in horror as the boys in my school went through their puberty,an event for some reason I escaped. What that did was intensify the beatings and the taunting. What PJI is trying to do is ensure that treatment is foisted on the poor girl YOU decided had to somehow prove her condition. The proof you decided you needed was that she hide her condition. Not practical for a child Jennifer especially a very pretty girl like the one in Florence who is inevitably going to attract the interest of boys fuelled by testosterone.

You have admitted you screwed up, good for you but you screw up rather a lot Jennifer.


Just Jennifer said...

You know, I don't care if you think my narrative adds up or not. I didn't survive it to impress you, or anyone else. The therapists I told it to didn't share your view. And I saw some with actual experience in the field, who are well known. With the exception of that one quack who just wanted to rack up numbers of patients who had surgery. No, I don't want a fight with you. If I did, you would know it. I do get tired of people who had better luck thinking those who didn't somehow are lesser. If I wanted to be stupid, I could accuse you of "privilege" but that would be bogus. Our circumstances were different. I'm honestly glad not everyone went through what I did. As to that last paragraph, how did you put it? "That was beyond insensitive but then that was the intent." I apologize for being rude. I should not have lowered myself to that level.

Just Jennifer said...

First off, I am not transgender. Second off, my "narrative" has not changed. I don't always share parts of it because some of it is really painful to remember, and also, there are some people I don't care enough about to share it with. You, being a perfect example of the type. And there are things I don't share because I am not going to invade others privacy. And finally, there are some things I won'y share because there are people nasty enough to exploit them to really hurt me.

Elizabeth, I still have some respect for. You, I think are just one of those people who likes to be nasty.

So, you told your aunt when you were four…did you realize it sitting under your mother's piano?

Are you talking about Coy? Let's just say that I read some stuff posted by someone who knows that child's mother that raised some issues about that situation. It doesn't prove anything, but it could get interesting.

So, you will pardon me if I really don't care what you think at all.

And yes, I do make mistakes. And unlike some people, I have the good sense to realize it, the humility to admit it, and the wisdom to learn from the. I so pity those unable to realize they are not perfect…

Anonymous said...

I would stay out of this Autumn, as I am. By the way it was good seeing you yesterday on your walk, lost weight I see.

Don't get paranoid Autumn, you are not worth the time, coming in here where you don't really fit in and making comments on another poster who has not even engaged you is really tacky.

I have made it a point to stay out of this discussion mainly because I am so out of touch with the younger TS, it has been interesting to follow. It is good to see someone is on her side in this battle, you can feel real alone in situations like this, I know you know that as I do.


Anonymous said...

JJ has really lost the plot today. She still prevaricates for the USA. Or, to put it bluntly she must have some very nasty splinters inside her vagina or arse from sitting on so many wooden fences.

JJ states "You have said I don't know what it is like to be a teenage transsexual. Poppycock. I was one. I just wasn't lucky enough to have the resources or knowledge to transition." Is this the same JJ who once wrote that she was "more than a transvestite but not a transsexual"?

She also wrote "Yeah, my posts are rough because I get fed up with men who had long, happy lives as men, and then suddenly, during a mid-life crisis, decide they are really women. Even though they still act exactly like they did before…the only difference is they wears heels and a dress now." That, JJ, is an almost perfect description of yourself. YOU JJ are the one who deserves a male pronoun - not this innocent child who is obviously a girl, but you wouldn't have a clue how a child TS feels because you were never a TS - you admitted that yourself.

So, why don't you do us all a favour and return to where you belong - the tranny pages.

A fed up true TS.

Anonymous said...

Prof Richard Green would have had a field day if JJ had come before him. Prof Green would have told JJ to go away and play with his panties and be the man he is.

Never the most subtle of men was Prof Green, but he knew when he was seeing a genuine TS and when a tranny entered the room. When you consider he was also qualified as an advocate and had a habit of cross-exmaning patients it is clear that JJ would have left in a wreck and wouldn't have got within 10 miles of hormones, let alone SRS.

So, JJ, before you bandy about that someone is really a man, know your facts before publishing your conclusions.

A true TS who JJ once misgendered.

Elizabeth said...

@Just Jennifer

I am nasty? Well actually I get nasty with people that are nasty with me and I do get upset with people who say really dumb things and have no clue about some things such as child transsexuals. I am not trying to beat you into changing your mind but your silly claims there is not enough evidence for someone of your immense skills in determining who is or is not transsexual do ask the question, what the fuck do you want for evidence????

This is my blog and I do not have to turn the cheek but sometimes I find it doesn't work. I do find it interesting that certain people do know you and remember certain statements you made quite a while back. How much truth is there to those comments?

Elizabeth said...

@Just Jennifer

I am nasty? Well actually I get nasty with people that are nasty with me and I do get upset with people who say really dumb things and have no clue about some things such as child transsexuals. I am not trying to beat you into changing your mind but your silly claims there is not enough evidence for someone of your immense skills in determining who is or is not transsexual do ask the question, what the fuck do you want for evidence????

This is my blog and I do not have to turn the cheek but sometimes I find it doesn't work. I do find it interesting that certain people do know you and remember certain statements you made quite a while back. How much truth is there to those comments?

Anonymous said...

Screwed up again JJ! My mother never had a piano You sharing psychotropic drugs with June the Loon or something? Not having much luck here are you? Not "transgender" eh? Not nice when you get called something you're not is it, like when you called this girl in Colorado "he"

Btw I rather like that you don't like me!


Anonymous said...

You're in good company Cassandra. JJ
lost the respect of most genuine TS and post-TS a long time ago and is just a bitter old tranny-gone-too-far. JJ needed to see a shrink, but to deal with JJ's personality disorder.

JJ also keeps saying it's her "stalker" posting information about her here, but the information is widely available and widely known about. Frankly, JJ is a laughing stock and brings those of us who are genuine into disrepute.

JJ should go play with his panties, because he's the tranny who went too far.

True TS misgendered by JJ

Just Jennifer said...

No Elizabeth, I did not call you nasty. I was referring to people like the troll who has been stalking me for quite a few years. I did a rather long piece on him on my blog, just to make sure anyone who Googles his name would learn about him. That was who I called nasty. So, unless you are fishing for something that would really cause me pain, no I did not call you nasty. Oh, are unless you pretend to be British and post as cassandraspeaks. I called her nasty as well, because, well, she is.

Now, if I actually cared enough to really make a decision on that poor child, who I would prefer to see left alone, as I have already said, I would want to see something that was not filtered through Williams or PJI….or any other questionable source.

As I said, I made a mistake. I did exactly what several have done here. I made a knee jerk reaction, and I have admitted it. I should not have referred to that student with male pronouns, as I did not have a valid basis to do so.

Now, as I said, I made a statement, on a web site I had sone time back in the early days of the web, that reflected what I was going through. I'm not going to provide a lot of detail, for reasons I have already given, but I was seeing a therapist who was supposed to be knowledgeable about transsexuals. She was pretty much worthless. I was struggling with some questions, not about being transsexual, but about myself. I was also facing some very real issues with regards to finances, and such. When I brought these up to here, she glossed over them, and was pressuring me to sue my health insurance provider at the time to cover my surgery. As tempting an idea as that was, I was worried it would become a public spectacle, which I did not want. Those issues became too much, and I detransitioned. I tried to find a middle ground (hence the silly statement) and later faced the fact that it was the wrong thing to have said. Of course, when you are dealing with a troll, that is something they will trot out occasionally. It was a silly thing to say, and it sounded clever at the time. Now, it is kind of a fading memory of my first foray onto the web, and a very nasty person who tends to obsess about people.

Just Jennifer said...

ROTFL! Oh well, I admit, it is a bit of an American reference…though I thought Jan Morris also said that. Oh well... If you don't get it, well, you don't get it.

You know, I admitted my mistake.

And no, I don't care for you at all. I never do care for obvious frauds. I've encountered your kind before. A bit too over the top with certain claims. Story a bit too perfect and all….

Anonymous said...

Has JJ hit the sauce?

Bemused true TS who holds JJ in the contempt that JJ deserves

Just Jennifer said...

I don't know if the previous post went through or not, but no Elizabeth, I did not call you nasty….at least not unless you are also looking for something that you think would cause me real pain.

As I said, I made that comment during the period when I detransitioned because of a very incompetent therapist. I was dealing with some personal issues that I won't go into, and all she wanted to do was press me to sue my insurance company to cover my surgery (they declined to cover on the grounds it was not medically necessary as opposed to an outright ban) and while that was tempting, I feared it would become very public, which I did not want. I detransitioned as a way of coping with the other issues, and I tried to find a middle ground I could live with. I finally realized that there wasn't one, and moved on with my life, a bit sadder, but wiser.

It was a silly statement, made on an early attempt at a web site back in the early days of such things. A lot of the stuff this troll says is not even true. That is a statement I made, more as a hope, than a fact. If you've never suffered from denial, good for you. I have, and it is not fun.

Just Jennifer said...

ROTFL! Yes, no question who the troll is. He harassed one poor person, a Canadian TG activist (who it could be argued deserved some of it) for years, starting on Fidonet. When the guy finally left the web, and apparently went back to living as a male, he turned his attention to me, and I have been his obsession since. He claimed for years to be highly successful, but turned out to be homeless, and non-op, as did another troll he hung with online. That person literally died at their computer, in the middle of harassing someone.

Just Jennifer said...

ROTFL! I guess perhaps it is a bit obscure. Go find a copy of "Second Serve," and you will figure it out.

Jessica said...

As a word prior to this message, sorry Jennifer, I like you, but it is different as a kid. I have to stand with Elizabeth, given my experiences as a student, and my knowledge, talking with other TS youth. Sadly not as much as Liz, but I want to just what she does with TS kids one day...she inspires me on that front. I don't owe anyone anything, truly. Of course. But this isn't about me, it's about them.


This disagreement makes me sad, and I think we're better than this, I really do. Can't we just agree we want the best for this girl, given she's on suicide watch? Truly TS (which I think she is, not that it matters) or not.

I want to repeat Elizabeth here: YOU DO NOT HURT CHILDREN! To do so otherwise is, at minimum, preposterous. I don't remotely deny your story, but how many kids have you known, worked with? If you have, I think your opinion would honestly change, or I'd hope it would.

That should be our focus, not a case of right or wrong. We should hope that she is safe with herself, first and foremost.

I'm genuinely curious what you would think about her case, prior to this story, in a Jane Doe, any Type VI girl, case. You wouldn't care because she was assimilating...but because someone, probably this one student's mother, called her out on "harassing". This so called "harassing" turned out to be nothing more than simply entering the bathroom, she's therefore disruptive? I don't get your basis for your argument. I can respect our disagreements, but what specifically has PCI actually said that she did wrong? If you want to argue the, in my opinion, bullshit argument of harassment, you need to specify. What I have heard is talking with other girls about their outfits...get a damn clue if you think that's harassment. It's what women do in the bathroom, especially teen girls.

And quite is she remotely different than Jazz, in the sense that she is just another teen girl with a TS medical condition? Only difference is Jane had a bathroom snafu that arose, one that was not self brought on, like Francis, or her fault, in any event.

In regards to the comments:

Sandeen, we might not agree upon much, to say the least, but we do here. Thank you for your input in helping support her in that sense, and preventing her from trying to achieve normalcy, and just be another girl, without the fear of the PCI breathing down her neck, or those thoughts of self-harm.

Not to mention, most interesting remark regarding Christian Williams; and I thank you. I had no idea, one way or the other, if she had SRS or not. That certainly makes things interesting about how I consider a few of her viewpoints.

Yes, her, Jennifer...SRS doesn't change the person, but there's nothing wrong about her defending this girl--defending Francis-types is another matter entirely. I also found this compairison you made between Jane and Francis to be disgusting, and without merit. Mistake or not, there was no basis-PCI is not reputable, given their overall history.

~Jessica...feeling sadder for Jane by the day. Hang in there girl, you can do it.

Just Jennifer said...

BTW, Richard Green is an interesting choice…given he is one who has pushed reparative therapy for child transsexuals. He called it the "SIssy Boy Syndrome." Yeah, a real interesting choice….

Anonymous said...

Here's a link to archive info which shows JJ's lack of relevance to TS - JJ is, frankly, a fraud.!msg/ba.personals/z89sYexv5YE/zAJ_xBM8GHQJ

True TS

Anonymous said...

JJ has conveniently ignored the fact that JJ is infamous among TS and those who have successfully transitioned.

For the record, the information I posted on JJ was sourced on the internet with a simple search and is easily accessible.

As someone who has been studying law at university I can advise the JJ is rushing headlong towards a libel writ being thrust in JJ's direction by the person who JJ has claimed has posted information about JJ.

JJ has her blinkers on continually and cannot see that there are a long list of people that JJ has pissed off over a very long period, and not just in the USA/Canada but on the European side of the ocean too.

A true TS who thinks JJ needs to be taught a lesson in manners (and is genuinely British)

Just Jennifer said...

Yeah, definitely the troll who has been staking me. And definitely a non-op.

Interesting FAQ… Almost all outright lies, with few bits that are either distortions or twisted facts. Yes, I did have a problem with bedbugs. They are very common here in San Francisco. And yes, I lived at the Mission Hotel. Not quite as bad as described in the article. The manager who is mentioned in the article got quite a bit of money from THC because of the lies told. Most of the time I lived there, I paid my own rent. Which, as I pointed out was about a third of what a friend paid for the same amount of space as I had. Do you have any idea what rents are like here?

No, I was not fired, no I was not on welfare prior to coming to San Francisco, and no, I did not have gay lovers. Though I do love how this troll shows he is a homophobe

But yeah, you might notice how he doesn't provide links to some things…that is because it would expose his lies.

Like the bit about posing as a young "hacker" boy. Nope, not true.

Just Jennifer said...

Be glad you don't have a very disturbed nut job staking you online… Not nearly as much fun as it sounds like.

Just Jennifer said...

Jessica, I have not compared the student to "Colleen" Francis. Not even remotely. I jumped to a wrong conclusion early on, and I have admitted that mistake. "Colleen" Francis is a pervert, period. I never said, remotely, that the student in Colorado had done anything like that. I am not sure where you got that from. In fact, one thing that has bothered me during this who discussion is people thinking I said things I did not. And that is about as bad and example as I have seen. I mentioned Francis, not as a comparison to the child in Colorado, but as an example of the sort of thing that Williams pushes.

Anonymous said...

Regarding the Google Groups link, that's kind sad. If that's true, then it's sad JJ feels she has to misrepresent herself. It's also sad that she has no choice but to live in a bedbug infested roach motel.

Still, there may be one positive development: She is in California. The Medicaid expansion starts January 1st, and MediCal covers SRS. If she hasn't had it yet, she can definitely get it through that route. She should start researching it if she hasn't gotten it already.

Jessica said...


I realized this was a mistake on my end, and for this I do apologize, I am sorry. The problem is, I realized it too late, a few minutes after hitting submit. Mea culpa.

I don't like attacking others without basis, or worse yet, as I did, attack and/or accuse on an incorrect/non-existent basis, and I did so there. Oddly enough, in a roundabout sort of way, my statement, regarding Francis comparisons, was the one without merit. I hope you have no hard feelings over this.

With that said, however, the rest of my post stands as-is.

God bless,


Just Jennifer said...

What is sad is that the person who posted it has obvious mental issues that continue to go untreated. I went through a rough period, but that is past history. If you think I am about to provide u dated information that person could exploit, you are crazy.

I am post-op, and have no need of MediCal SRS coverage.

If you really have any questions about this person's sanity, read some of the other crap they posted to that newsgroup.

Just Jennifer said...

Jessica, I make mistakes, and I admit them. So, no, I have no hard feelings over you doing the same. I am honestly concerned that this child is being used by two extremist positions. I really do worry that this may not end well. I also have no doubt that neither side, and by that I am referring to Williams and Co., and PJI, really cares one whit about anything other than their own agendas.

I realize that some here really are deeply concerned, but I fear they are not seeing the bigger picture. It would be far better if this child were left in peace. I think some have made references to cases like Coy, the six year old in Colorado, and Jazz. What they overlook is the things like the fact that Coy's parents are exploiting the poor child for their 15 minutes of fame. That is starting to happen in this case, with Williams working to provide money in exchange for information.

Elizabeth said...


The title of this post fits you perfectly. Bigger Picture?????

You bozo it was the Pacific Justice Institute that brought this to the public. They are the ones that hurt this child you fool. Coy's parents are looking for their 15 minutes of fame?

You are a douche and a tool if you think that!!!

They were also outed because their child of 6 just wanted to live as the girl she is and at 6 she was no danger to anyone. Neither of these families sought the public attention or any fame. What you need to learn to do is just STFU sometimes.

You are just so pathetic there are times you make me want to scream. What planet do you live on where parents of transsexual children are looking for their 15 minutes of fame? Show me one fucking piece of proof to back up such an asinine claim about these two children. I dare you to prove it you pompous ass!!! How dare you drag a 6 year old into this you clown.

Williams is not providing money for information because she hasn't got two pots to piss in you idiot. Williams has been nothing but exemplary in this entire horror show while you have been the total douche.

Certainly PJI would crucify this kid if they could and it is more than apparent that you do not give a shit about these kids either. Your callous attitude and your misplaced loyalties and your hatred of Williams are so apparent they are sickening.

You want to see me mad and nasty, well now you have done it. Do you have a single clue about the nightmare parents live through with a transsexual child of any age? Of course you do not or you would just STFU you unaware tool.

Good lord you are the dumbest thing on two legs I have run across, in a very long time.

Anonymous said...

Given JJ's comments where JJ blamed the children and parents for the machinations of the PJI and the comments about that the child should try not to upset anyone and should compromise by acting a boy, etc, etc, combined with the comments before that JJ is in the "extreme middle", etc I cannot help but wonder whether in the not too distant past JJ was saying that Rosa Parks should have moved further down the bus so as not to upset people, or that the parents of the children who needed an army escort just to go to school in JJ's home state of Alabama should have not sought to cause problems by seeking integrated education.

I sometimes wonder whether JJ still keeps the KKK mask that JJ would have inherited.

JJ cares not one iota for how the childen affected are and what their feelings are, all JJ cares about is not ruffling the sensibilities of the christo-fascists.

Go back to working your right hand in your panties while reading your precious bible JJ and leave this blog to genuine TS. This is not a place for wife-beating trannies, Howard.

A true TS

Just Jennifer said...

I have pointed out that I was unaware that PJI was the source of the information. But that does not seem to be something you are capable of understanding.

Perhaps you haven't seen the photos and coverage of Coy's parents at various functions, enjoying the limelight as "honored guests" with their kids in tow. You didn't read the information I did on a web site where some mothers, who had been in discussions with Coy's mom, raised concerns about he previous efforts to exploit her other children's issues. Maybe you didn't notice their eagerness to appear on any show that would give them attention. These ae not parents torn up over having a transsexual child. They are seeking the limelight and enjoying the attention.

And maybe you have not seen that Williams has set up a website for people to donate to the family in Florence. I did not say he was paying out of his own pocket. When someone is claiming to be simply reporting facts (as though anyone with a brain would be gullible enough to think such a thing) asking for donations to come through you to support the source of your "facts" is very unethical.

Now, I realize you really, really want to see exactly what you see, and it is apparent you are incapable of even taking an honest look at things. I can accept that you disagree with me. But, I am tired of your ignorant insults. That tells me you don't really have any legitimate arguments and just want to avoid the possibility you might be wrong. Hey, that's your right. But, I am tired of reading your silliness.

You keep projecting your own fears and insecurities onto me, and I have been patient up to now. I could answer you in kind, but I get tired of that sort of crap. I still have enough respect for you to leave you to your own misery.

Like so many…your resort to claiming anyone who disagrees or points out facts you don't like, must be doing it out of hate. That is one of the lamest of dodges but it is what people have learned to do. If you can't actually make a valid argument, scream hate.

No, again, I don't hate anyone. Though actually dealing with that would mean you would actually have to look at what I say, and actually refute it with legitimate arguments, not simply throwing out the same level of garbage that comes from PJI. You see, the opposite of one extreme's lies is usually another extreme's lies. But many are incapable of not simply reacting in anger and emotion. That is what extremists count on, and I have to say, they hit the jackpot with you on this one.

So, I will leave you to your illusions and angry rants. I tried to have a rational discussion, hoping repeatedly you would finally realize you have lost control, but clearly that is not to be. You are a true believer, and facts and reality don't matter. You want to tell others how to think, and can't deal with them not agreeing.

Have fun. I admitted my mistakes, but that was not good enough for you. I guess you wanted me to blindly follow. And since I won't, the insults come out.

I spent a lovely afternoon with some friends. Funny, there is a lot we agree on, and things we don't, but we can discuss stuff without resorting to screaming insults. I'm not going to waste any more time on someone who is simply unable to avoid that.

Anonymous said...

I hope this means we don't have to read anymore of your meaningless and verbose excreta Jennifer. Don't let the door hit your overample butt on the way out.


Anonymous said...

Well said, Cassandra!

JJ is like Mount Etna - explodes on a regular basis with fireworks, a lot of smoke and some noise but no real impact - in other words a tiresome sideshow which is amusing for a little while then gets meaningless.

See you back shortly with yet more drivel JJ as you can never stfu. If in a hole stop digging is the best advice that we can give you.

A fed up reader

Anonymous said...

JJ has made a habit of flouncing when exposed as a tranny gone too far. Unfortunately JJ tends to view the exit as a revolving door as JJ always has to have the last word.

The important thing here is the welfare of the child - JJ is unable to see that.

JJ would never understand what it is to be TS because JJ is not TS but a TV gone too far.

A True TS

Jessica said...

Jennifer, I have spoken with Jazz's mother about this in the past, in a room full of TS kids and their families.

Why do I bring this up? Because I gained perspective. Perspective of parents, how HARD it is for them to raise kids like us. Sure, they are more than happy to see just a happy boy or girl gleaming back at them, at long last. But there is a bit of crying, both through difficulties of this struggle of the wrong body, price of medications, surgeries, etc. Last, but certainly not least, they cry for the child they thought they had, but never did.

You mean to tell me this is for 15 minutes of fame? You said Coy's in particular, but am I wrong to assume you mean this among a fair share of of parents of youth? If so, my apologies, and this statement is absolutely moot, but I get the feeling it isn't, from your tone.

Jeanette, Jazz's mother, says it is totally Jazz's choice to continue on with the documentaries, videos, TV specials, kind of like how they view her transition. Every time, she has said yes; if she ever wants to stop either (though, personally, I put a zero chance on her not having a transsexual medical condition), that family will take no issue, on either.

Why does Jazz continue to do so, then, on these highly publicized appearances? Because she thinks it can make a difference. I think she's right on that claim, too: Given what I have heard, Jazz has inspired many children to tell their parents they are truly a girl, or a boy, giving them a better future. Not for fame, both Jazz and Jeanette have stated this matter specifically, in the aforementioned room I mentioned in my first paragraph.

These are good people. I should know, I've talked with some of them a bit, heard their stories more. Who I believe to be the Mathis'(based on the age of their kids, as well as their location) took time out of their day to tell me how touching, tear-jerking a speech I gave these children, and their parents. This was entirely out of the blue, unexpected, and made my day.

Where, or what is your specific proof to the contrary that these people have ulterior motives, or are trying to finder their inner Warhol? Mine is not hearsay, but first person experiences, narratives. These children and their parents are some of the strongest, bravest, not to mention kindest, people I have ever met.

And while this one is a bit might make my point rather well, and you some personal perspective, so here goes: You say you did not have supportive parents. I am sorry to hear this, I truly am. However, I do--and my mother wants me to be, in her terms, out. As a someone young, with a TS medical condition, this means so much to me. Alas, not the point. When I asked her why, she said, much like Jeanette, not for the fame, as it is the wrong reason. But rather...more of what I heard from Jeanette, Jazz, which seemingly is a universal theme of supportive parents in the 21st century: Because it can make a difference. You might disagree with her intentions on the "out" bit. But: How would you fault her for the reason why? I think it's a darn good one, and based on the experiences of other TS youth, it holds actual merit.


Elizabeth said...

I decided last evening NOT to respond to Just Jennifer primarily because I was angry and found her comment so bizarre I wanted to back off and besides I had a good evening and spoiling it just seemed not worthwhile.

I found it amusing Jennifer removed a link she had to my blog which is kind of like the petulant little boy that is told he has to play right field because he is not good at baseball and he owns the ball so he goes home. Probably a bad analogy but it is what I have in the moment.

First Jennifer was totally aware that PJI was behind the Jane Doe nightmare because she reamed Cristan Williams about it and Williams clearly referenced PJI but maybe Jennifer suffers from selective reading syndrome where you read something and only that which agrees with your view or fits your opinion of the author registers.

It is not unethical to seek donations for a family in turmoil like Jane Doe's. It is only unethical if the money is stolen or diverted. Are you making such a claim?

How can I be projecting my own fears and insecurities when it is you that has the "fear" and "insecurity" over this teenager in a girl's room or is it really jealousy on your behalf?

I have presented plenty of legitimate arguments based on years of experience working with kids just like her. It is you that has continually said you need more facts and I asked what you needed and you repeated you needed more facts. I think you have it backwards.

Actually your hatred for Williams is so palpable it has a pulse of its own but then that is your problem and not mine.

Jennifer one does not look at what one writes but one actually reads it which may be the basis for your cognition problems. I have made valid arguments why Jane Doe and little Coy should just be left alone. It is you that has gone off the deep end.

When you actually do point out a fact or do produce a fact then I will look at it and analyze whether it is relevant. At this time you have not produced a fact other than some deluded belief that somehow kids provide linkage to adults. They do not because as I have said kids are different.

By the way my insults are neither ignorant nor inaccurate and lord knows you give me a large enough target that I could throw my harpoon into the dark and hit the whale, you, without looking.

My best guess is you revel in your own personal misery based on what O know about you. You project your own self-hatred on others because somehow you feel they had it better or succeeded in life because as you mentioned they had "privilege".

You are incapable of understanding that parents deal with their transsexual/transgender children the best they can and since you claim to have had it bad you project that misery onto the parents and the kids that manage to get it and make it through.

to be continued....

Elizabeth said...


You made the claim you were subjected to aversion therapy in a previous comment well I know a little about that one as I ended up in Medfield State Hospital in Massachusetts in the sexual deviant wing at 17 because I was transsexual. I recovered but it took quite a while and I was quite angry.

How did you survive? I can remember in excruciating detail every horrid thing they did to me in an attempt to alter my 17 year old mind and view of myself. There are still life memories I cannot remember and I have an eidetic memory so they did hurt me a lot.

I still have an occasional nightmare about the German accented wingnut that controlled my life in that hospital. I cannot count the times I woke up in my late husbands arms shaking and crying with him telling me I was safe.

I did not and will not take that out on kids like me and believe me you were never a kid like me or Jane Doe or several of my friends because you would be standing with open arms wanting to hug every single last one of them so please take that pile of crap back to your room. You see Jennifer those of us that lived it understand what it does and your actions and your words make you a complete and total jerk and clearly indicate you have not one clue about the subject.

I am sure you know more about late transitioning than I do because I have no clue but if one has had SRS then one is my sister or brother. About the rest of it I am at a loss because I never lived it but I realize there must be a lot of pain there and they all have my sympathy.

Trying to blame a "bad" therapist for your comment about being somewhere between a transvestite and a transsexual is to be blunt humorous but probably more sad when I really think about it. Kids like I was always knew we were girls and no dipshit therapist or Psychiatrist was changing our minds and I had lots of them try.

Do I believe a late transitioner that is confused about their gender could be harmed by a shithead therapist? Yes I do and I can see that in you.

You were part of the HBS crowd and I was in a group for several months until I realized all it was could be summed quite easily. HBS devolved into a group of late transitioning men doing what all men do which is try and inflate their own ego by telling everyone they are somehow either Type VI Benjamin transsexuals or somehow "true transsexuals or "classic" transsexuals because that was more important somehow.

Thankfully I came to my senses and ran away from the Rose Whites and the Jennifer Ushers that corrupted Harry's name.

Now have a good day although I doubt that is remotely possible.

Kathryn Dumke said...

While I don't want to engage in this specific debate, I do want to mention a couple of things that I believe are important an assessment of the situation with Jane Doe.

Young transsexuals like she live through a world that seems to be framed by both their intensity of need and the protection concerns of the parents. We live in a time where it is no longer unheard of that a child like Jane would transition early. Kim Petras, Jazz, Jane and so many more that we don't even hear about transition very early. And while I am just an observer I sense the incredible need of these children, strong enough to overcome parents safety and security concerns for their child. If the need were not so intense on the part of the child driving transition I am not sure the child would transition at that young age.

When a child like Jane transitions, the parents must do everything to protect her and this is what the parents did in this case. They spoke to the school authorities, it was communicated to the children in a way that introduced her as a girl. The courage required on the part of the child and the parents required to create protections of Jane and at the same disclose her condition is incredible.

I cannot possibly imagine, once this step is undertaken that anyone would see this as a publicity ploy, or even question if and whether this child is what she knows and her parents say she is.

It seems to me that assuming or speculating some ulterior motive both on the part of the parents or the child (notoriety or oogling of girls in the bathroom) is so contrary to what Jane's parents did in order to protect their daughter in her transition and to allow for normal childhood and adolescence to the extent that is possible if you are transsexual. It is bizarre in fact.

Anonymous said...

The loss of JJ is, frankly, a breath of fresh air. At least now those of us who are genuine women with a history or are in the process of transitioning can get on with discussing the real issues.

As the guest who was a shrink said in Fawlty Towers "there's enough material there for an entire conference".

Typical JJ response on JJ's blog though where JJ has to try to play the part of a victim of bullying. JJ is just a sad, deluded old man whose hobby went a bit too far and he will never be able to understand issues that affect us.

The thorn on an English Rose.

Just me Karen said...

I won't attack someone's TS situation just because they may have said something I don't like. I might disagree with their facts, or their conclusions. I might take offense at how they deliver their opinions, and my sense of justice may be inflamed when I see someone get hurt because of what they say or do.

Being TS is a matter of sex ID. Doing hurt is not, it's a matter of judgment and character. Let us try to keep these two matters separated, as deliberately mis-gendering and mis-sexing is a hurtful behavioral matter, having to do with character and judgment, not sexual and gender identification. If we get pissed at JJ for violating the sexing rules, we should hold ourselves to following them, too. 2¢.

Anonymous said...

Liz: at some point you might come back and look at this comment chain, so perhaps here's a good place to ask you how you were able to identify appropriate candidates for young girls along their way?

For our part, here (not within America) there were always severe legal disincentives to offering any advice, let alone practical age, to people under the age of majority (with the saving exception of emancipated youth, a narrowly-defined situation). For my part, I'd run away early in my college years, and so my own experience formed a prototype basis for comparison when considering who would be a good recipient for our help and advice.

Anyway, there's a discusson that I'd be happy to have with you if we can ever find the time and mutual wherewithal to have such a chat without it being derailed by various other third parties.

Kind regards,

an anonymous (regretfully-necessary adjective) elfchick