Sometimes you need to poke the animals

Blog post note #1
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Aria seems to feel it was an insult to use the term animals which was not aimed at her but an attempt at a bit of wry humor because the phrase Do not poke the xxxx or Don't poke the xxxx implies if you aggravate me you will be sorry or get hurt. I did think animals was a better metaphor but I could redo the title as
Sometimes you need to poke the transsexual but that seemed a little nasty.

Sometimes you just cannot please everyone.
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I have been thinking quite a lot about the transsexual narrative lately. A lot of this may be because of my issue with a certain person or the issue she has with me is more to the point. I guess if there was a narrative it started with people like Christine Jorgensen and her story but I am afraid the narrative everyone complains about or talks about or discusses the most often is the narrative of kids like I was or the feminine boy syndrome which has caused a great deal of controversy in and out of the medical profession.

The normal narrative I hear so many   repeat is I knew I was a girl early on, I told everyone, I was feminine, I liked boys, and so forth with individuals diverging off the path at some point. There is never any real definition of how or why one is that way and to be honest too many claim it because it is convenient and will get you help regardless of the age help is sought at. The truth is it is just not that simple and there are many reasons for it but first I will describe me and then discuss what I think really happens in many in my opinion based on just my experiences.

I remember telling grandfather I was a girl when he told me "be a good little boy and get him his pen" as we sat together preparing for him to do the New York Times crossword puzzle in ink while he pretended I actually helped. I remember telling him "but I am a girl" and I have absolutely no idea why I said it other than I believed i was a girl.  There is no reason for this to happen and as a bright child after I was sat down by my grandfather I knew physically I was not a girl but then it isn't physical is it.

There were no girl toys in my house with two brothers and the only girl child in the neighborhood was Roberta who lived several houses down and was 1 year older than me. Even after my parents knew I never faced any issues because I didn't push things because my mom contracted paralytic polio and I was distraught over that but I remember asking my mom when she got home why I could not dress like other girls.  I did identify more with Roberta than boys and by 6 physically I was very different from my brothers.  They were stocky and strong like my dad and I was thin and consistently mistaken for my mom's daughter if we were out together.

In my mom's letters to Harry early on in the October-November time-frame in 1958 she asked Harry why her son thought he was a girl and Harry used the word angeboren which in German means it is inborn based on my translation. All I remember is I had no idea why I felt that way but I knew I was a girl and I wanted to be a girl which is why mom took me to the first Psychiatrist. I was not running around screaming like a little brat that I needed to live as a girl and I certainly was not cross-dressing at such an early age unless it was when I played house with Roberta and I always wanted to be her little sister.  Go figure!

It was getting caught by Roberta's father that triggered the Psychiatrist adventures that would begin my attempts at suicide which were not because I wasn't allowed to be a girl but I was terrified of being what they said I would be which was at times very unflattering and being told you are crazy by a Psychiatrist is scary for a very confused 8 year old kid even one as bright as I was. I was just so totally confused it seemed hopeless because there was nobody to help me. In all honesty I was so confused by it all at times I was in a daze but I was kind of shy and reserved out of fear they would stick me in some mental hospital as was threatened by several Psychiatrists.

The gender discomfort began to get more intense as I approached my tenth birthday. Lots of boys are pretty at a young age but they change over time and become boy pretty if that makes sense but that didn't happen for me and I was 2-3 years younger than everyone in school and the bullying began because I was tall for my age even at 10 and boys were learning they liked girls and boys started mistaking me for a girl which I actually liked. It was around 10 that I simply asked my mother why I just couldn't be a girl which I am sure confused her.  My suicide attempts up until then were because Psychiatrist's said I was crazy and would remain a boy and grow into a man and I better get use to it along with some very vile names and physically I was not developing like most boys and certainly not like my two brothers.

I think the concept of intensity is not discussed enough when discussing us. I have no idea how to categorize it but Harry made an initial attempt with his three categories of  transsexuals but the key point is intensity changes over time. In my case the intensity grew over time because when you are 4 or 5 what the heck did I know about my condition. I thought I was a girl and over time the Gender discomfort became worse. It grew more intense and I don't know why but it did. I became more uncomfortable in my own skin which is a weird thing to say but from 10-12 I know my mom would tell you I cried an awful lot about it and begged her to let me be a girl. My mom never put me down during this time although I know she wanted to "cure" me.

I was very confused and really hurting. There were weird moments like when our neighbor gave birth to a son and I got to hold him and I remember telling my mom "he is so beautiful" and I didn't want to let him go. It was around this time I began to do some cross-dressing because I was practicing for when I became a girl but it was not extensive.

There is no such thing as a gay 10 year old because quite simply the number of ten year old's that are sexually aware and aware of their sexual preference so will these loons that call young kids please stop calling effeminate or feminine boys homosexuals or gay. Not until puberty kicks in does any human became homosexual, heterosexual, or bi-sexual and puberty kicks in sometime between 10-14. Because someone is feminine or effeminate does not make them gay at any time from birth to puberty and there is no such thing as pre-homosexual.

After my 12th birthday is when life took a big turn but first a short discussion on the MTF transsexual condition. If being MTF is a birth defect and a MTF is really a girl and an FTM is really a boy is where many including Aria and her flock lose credibility in their myopic beliefs. When puberty is reached the vast majority of girls like boys and the vast majority of boys like girls. Making the claim that a MTF transsexual who likes boys is gay falls apart based simply on the premise that transsexualism is inborn.  In point of fact if a MTF likes girls it is they that are gay or lesbian.  Any other premise falls apart unless this is NOT a birth condition. If gender is between the ears then a MTF transsexual regardless of how hard they repress their transsexualism should like boys or certainly be predisposed to liking boys based simply on the percentages. I agree this is a simplistic view but it is more based in fact than someone I will talk about later.

I realized after my 12th birthday I was attracted to boys and it was decidedly scary. I was not gay because my gender was female so liking a boy was normal for me but I was constantly bullied because of appearance and a natural inclination towards being feminine because I really was a girl. Personally I never tried to attract boys out of fear but when a boy broke down my defenses I certainly did not push him away.  He actually saved my life both emotionally and prevented a suicide attempt.

I had never thought once about sex or sexual preference before I was 12 and had a similar attitude towards boys that most genetic girls have.  They were icky and too rough and so forth. That changed and it was scary realizing boys were cute and I went to my mom and this was eventually what scared her into writing to Harry but it did make her decide to take me to Children's Hospital in Boston where the low testosterone level was discovered and a slightly elevated estrogen levels were found for whatever that is worth.

It is very simple.  You cannot have it both ways.  If being transsexual means we are born this way so our gender is predefined, I believe this, then since a MTF is the female gender liking boys is 100% normal. Why am I writing about this? Well we now get to the point of the post.

In  Aria's   latest blog post she says being transsexual has nothing to do with being gay which is 100% correct but per usual Aria is off-base. I would hope that Aria would answer a question but we all know the Queen of Hysteria never answers questions and we are to believe her because she is Aria and yes I am poking the paranoid animal in this case.

Aria has this paranoid belief that somehow people are trying to replace "true" transsexuals, which of course she belongs to, with gay transsexuals.  There is where her argument goes down the toilet to be blunt because there is no such thing as a gay transsexual unless said MTF or FTM transsexual as an awareness of sexual preference and it is the same gender they identify with.

The following paragraphs are contradictory.

When I pointed out that transsexual children (reproductively male) are not effeminate, I had a specific purpose in mind.  While it is true that these children displayed little outward sign of the true problem, that is because by that point the window of opportunity for observing them had passed.  There is no data at all on true ts children prior to this wall of silence.  At the point the child is being put to the question by a cold, authoritative figure, the child has withdrawn from the world and you will gain no insight into them whatsoever.  You other TS people will understand why this is so.  Others can just guess.


By 7-10 years of age the transsexual individual has long passed the stage where their self-knowledge can be expressed freely; the real world has come crashing in and the bleakness of their fate is clear.  Whether its the admonitions of their parents or the evidence of their own eyes, these kids are all too aware of reality.  Transsexual kids have a physical birth defect; that doesn’t mean they are crazy.

First off there is absolutely not one single reputable study that supports her premise that all transsexual children are not effeminate.  Aria knows this how?? There is data on this fact and she herself supplied it in the Person-Ovesey study which even if it is flawed it did point out that of the 10 effeminate/feminine children 5 were truly transsexual.  Now Aria cannot have it both ways since she firmly believes the "primary" transsexual defined by Person-Ovesey is who she is and has made frequent claims that it was the effort to change this definition of "primary" was done to rob her specifically of her position as a primary transsexual.

The last line in the second paragraph blows her entire premise coldly out of the water. If it is a physical birth defect sweetie then you better like boys or you are a lesbian which is fine but it does not make you better than anyone else which is your main claim per usual. For someone that has consistently claimed they believe some want a hierarchy or believe in elitism you sure seem hell bent on setting yourself up as "the elite".

I am guessing here but I am betting this is really Aria's narrative we are reading here. Since it is her narrative it is of course the only real narrative.  I do agree transsexualism initially has nothing to do with sexual orientation as she states but since a transsexual identifies with a different gender than their birth gender sexual preference will play a part since by nature humans are a sexual species. 

So while the “effeminate” young boy (pre-homosexual) is expressing himself freely with gender play and his open mannerisms, such things are clearly forbidden to the transsexual child and serve only as a reminder of the horror that awaits them later in life.  As time goes on, dreams are dashed before they were dreamt, and the future descends into a dark cloud of sadness.  The affectations of gender as social play are meaningless to the TS child.  And this is where you can draw clear distinction between the young pre-homosexual and the TS child.

This is a typical Aria generalization presented as fact but I do believe it is a look into who Aria was and unfortunately still is. Every child is different as every life is different as every transsexual child is different as every human is different.  There is no one narrative that fits everyone whether they be normal or transsexual yet Aria wants one narrative because it is her narrative. It is no different than me trying to push my narrative on everyone else as the only narrative.  It would be both myopic and totally wrong as is Aria's. To claim that there is no such thing as an effeminate or feminine transsexual is not different than one claiming the only transsexuals are effeminate or feminine. It is total rubbish and there is absolutely not one iota of factual proof she is correct other than her constant rants about it which begin to sound more like the paranoid musings of someone who has never come to grips with who or what they were or are.

Aria uses the simple fact she internalized her transsexualism probably out of parental fear as her basis for this mantra she and her followers profess to be the only narrative for transsexualism. 

I read with some amusement the writing of people who claim they were just so effeminate that they couldn’t help themselves.  They couldn’t stop themselves from making out with boys when they hit puberty, and the reason they want a sex change (or in some cases already had one supposedly) was because they need to have sex with straight men.  Sorry to inform you, that’s just called being gay.

Aria is really hung up on this issue but again she uses a generalization as fact. I am not sure if this is a shot at me but it could be but believe me I was attracted to boys but the one boy that broke down my wall of fear used a battering ram and any MTF transsexual that likes boy is not gay they are heterosexual but then you are confused about a lot of things.

This begs the question of what did Aria do when she reached puberty? Was she so pure of heart she was asexual and avoided contact with both genders or had she so buried her "femaleness" that she dated and screwed girls to prove her manliness to others which I must assume is part of the mantra or did she just masturbate in a dress but wait a second if I remember correctly she didn't ever cross-dress or feel like a girl after she managed to push it deep into the nether reaches of her mind.

There is a clear difference between the super-chiasmic nucleus of gay men and transsexual women.

There is a clear difference between the INAH-3 area of gay men and transsexual women.

There is a clear different between the BSTc of gay men, and transsexual women.

So how is this relevant for someone that happened to be what you described as a feminine/effeminate transsexual?? Do you have proof in here that the Type VI Benjamin transsexual does not fit as part of the transsexual women?  Of course you do not. There is no correlation between your claim and the results of these relatively limited studies but I guess if you scream it loud enough the fools that believe in you will fall into line and genuflect but simply posting it does not make it true. In my opinion you are full of shit on this subject like you have been since day one.  You have your myopic beliefs and everything has to fit into that world.
  

Thinking back to the lives of children, what would you expect from a little girl once she realizes something is very wrong?  Would you expect her to go blithely about her life, knowing that she is horribly deformed, with no ill effect whatsoever?  Knowing that everyone has labeled her wrong, would she then stupidly proceed to act out “effeminately” and chase boys as if nothing is wrong?  Of course not.  It’s the basic definition of the condition itself.  And that lack of self-knowledge would be a sign of delusion, not transsexualism.

I actually would expect every child to react differently based on their environment, parents, and how intense the need to be a girl is or became over time. I am not sure where the chase boys part comes in because honestly I have never known a young transsexual that ever chased boys and I have certainly known many more intense child transsexuals than you have.  This includes children that were both effeminate, feminine, and neither but all were intensely transsexual as children.  Not a single one of them ever "chased" boys and I would suggest you check whose narratives you listen to but then generalization and using your own perceived stereotypes is what you are best at.

Transsexualism is not defined by sexual orientation no matter what some people would have you believe.  When someone tries to make you feel “less than” because of who you love, treat that person as you would any random stranger started talking down to you because of your sexuality.  Don’t give self-appointed trans “experts”, whom you don’t even know past the internet persona, the power to make you feel insecure about yourself simply because you don’t fit some ancient scale that has been misapplied in the first place.

I totally agree with this paragraph and would like to ask you why anyone should believe you since you are the very "trans  expert" you decry in this paragraph. Oh let me guess you are the one trans expert everyone can believe. Transsexualism by itself is not defined by sexual orientation but when humans reach puberty they do have a sexual awakening sometime in the time-frame after puberty begins. I gather we can all put you in the I was not interested in boys column which is fine because if you liked girls that is fine or even if you liked both.  By the way how old were you when you actually realized you needed to get off your ass and do something? Were you 25, 35, or older?

We should never use some ancient scale that Aria does not believe in because Aria has a better scale and it is the Aria scale which she conveniently fits so comfortably in and also allows her to deny access to her "privileged" and 'elitist" world of the Aria transsexual because after all Aria is a "true" and "primary" transsexual. Replace transsexual with asshole and you are closer to the truth.

There are transsexual men, and transsexual women.  There are transsexual gay men, and transsexual lesbian women.  There are transsexual men and women who are bisexual.  Being gay, or lesbian, or bisexual is not a pathology, and neither is it diagnostic of TS.  Sexuality has no bearing on TS whatsoever.

Being transsexual is clearly a gender condition and I agree is somehow related to a rewired brain that makes one female. The real question I have here is why are you using the term "transsexual women" etc. because I clearly remember you taking apart someone on your blog Aria that used that term. I guess it is OK if Aria uses it because well Aria is the Queen of Hysteria about the attempt to destroy her life as a transsexual woman or was it a woman? You switch terms and wordage so often I do find it interesting you cannot keep a consistent choice of words. Sexual preference is as much a part of being a human as the perception of one's gender. They are interwoven because once puberty is reached we do change. The majority of girls like boys with a small minority liking girls and most boys like girls with a small minority liking boys.

It is who we are as a species and you may want to deny it but it is a simple fact of life and transsexuals are absolutely NOT immune to it. It is totally illogical to believe that someone who is wired as a girl would not have similar feelings for boys regardless of whether they are effeminate boys or macho pseudo alpha male athletes. You are who you think you are in your brain but you seem to want it only on your terms.  I am betting you liked girls and are embarrassed by it but you should not be but then I am guessing because other than your paranoia nobody has a clue if you are really transsexual or still in transition or even possibly post.  We have only your word for it and after all you did tell us not to listen to anyone you are not sure is or was born transsexual.  Your words not mine.

There is only one kind of TS.  It is a birth condition that has specific characteristics.  It is not defined by sexuality, but by the sexually dimorphic brain.  Reject attempts to categorize you by your orientation.  Don’t let these people split us up.  They have succeeded at the divide and conquer strategy far too long.

I agree with this paragraph so why are you trying to categorize some kids as gay, pre-homosexual, and all the other bullshit you put out there? Split up who exactly Aria. You are the one providing the categorization and demanding that everyone fits under the umbrella you define as transsexual. Whether one is a heterosexual or homosexual transsexual is not relevant after puberty but it is part of who people are as much as it is after surgery.

I do have questions for you but I know they will never be answered.

1. How old were you when you realized you were transsexual or had gender discomfort?
2. How old were you when you realized you needed to get off your ass and do something?
3. How old were you when you transitioned?
4. Have you had surgery and if so how many years post-op are you?
5. Why are you so obsessed with young transsexuals and why do you feel you must discredit their existence if they were feminine or effeminate?

I do need to say something about a comment on this post on Aria's blog.

lisalee18wheeler says:

November 30, 2010 at 6:50 pm

My two cents, and I know it’s going to be unpopular, is that all these first gen transitioners are leaving something out, or distorting the truth entirely. And as nice a man as Harry Benjamin was, he was far from being a humanitarian.
Take the red pill…

She has a blog called The View from Nine feet up  and drives a truck which is kind of cool.  She provides a nice picture of herself in front of a beautiful Freightliner  tractor on the bottom of the above link.

 It is quite obvious lisalee does not understand what a Humanitarian is:

Definition of HUMANITARIAN

: a person promoting human welfare and social reform :

By its very definition Dr. Benjamin was a humanitarian. I do realize this was a shot at me so Aria will post another "good girl" on your vapid blog but sorry I don't turn the other cheek. I do find this post hilarious considering we know absolutely NOTHING about your fearless leader Aria. Who is this mystery person? I would say I doubt she is even transsexual but I do remember Anonymous T Girl posting something about going out with her on a date with her boyfriend and Aria's boyfriend so I give her the benefit there. But we still know nothing about your leader other than she is paranoid.

Dr. Spack at Children's in Boston is treating many kids like I was but like I have said before being an effeminate boy does not make one transsexual in the same way that being an effeminate boy transsexual does not make the boy not transsexual and gay.

I would have to enshrine Aria as the Queen of the Fellowship of the Miserable because I have never read anyone so upset with everyone and so paranoid about things there is no proof of. Please provide me with proof the Medical establishment is trying to replace transsexuals with gay anything.

The definition of Paranoia taken from Wikipedia:



Paranoia is a thought process heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and/or delusion. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs concerning a perceived threat towards oneself. Historically, this characterization was used to describe any delusional state.

I think that definition accurately describes Aria.

Every single one of us born transsexual is an individual.  Any attempt to jam us all under one single definition for transsexual is wrong. Transsexuals are as diverse as people not born transsexual. By definition that means if we identify as female the spectrum of sexual preferences would be similar to genetic women. Nobody is any less or more transsexual because I do agree you either are or you are not but at the point that realization occurs the natural divergence we humans experience in our lives takes over.  In other words life is random and arbitrary and trying to push a set of rules defined by some lay person like Aria on others is such bullshit she should provide wading boots at times.

Are there crazy people on the fringes?  There certainly are and Aria is one of them. She is trying to force her paranoid delusions on others because in her mind she is persecuted because she believes everyone is after her and she is correct and everyone else is wrong.  If only life was that simple for all of us!!




 

Fellowship of the Miserable

I am a native of the Boston area of Massachusetts and I enjoy some sports but we have a funny saying about sports fans in Boston.  They are never happy unless they are actually miserable because if they are happy they cannot complain and complaining is more fun than being happy. A famous or infamous basketball coach said Boston fans are "the fellowship of the Miserable" and in many ways it fits. There are more than a few that belong in the transsexual/transgender fellowship of the miserable and the person whose name shall not be spoken is one of them.

I just had a great Thanksgiving with family and I get home on Friday and I find myself being accosted on another blog and rather than do the smart thing which is don't poke the "psychotic animal" I am afraid I find it impossible to not say something because the individual is just a liar. It is my problem I guess but I let it go the first time but not this time.  The individual likes to make grandiose accusations and when she is called on them she does exactly what happened this time which is attempt to claim someone is bullying her which is not true or threaten someone with legal action or make even more outrageous claims. That was why I attempted the previous post which I doubt will have any results other than making me feel better because everything I said is out there so make your own judgment. Monster and bully?? I think not.

I express my own personal opinions on this blog and occasionally tell about events from my life but these are my opinions and my stories. I will take on another blogger if I think they have crossed a line and I fully expect someone to take me on if I cross a line but I crossed no such line during this silly incident with the person whose name shall not be spoken  and anyone that thinks my initial posts on Mikki or the Gay Transsexual crossed a line is welcome to not read this blog but you are not welcome to make up accusations of me bullying people or being a monster.

I have not attempted nor would I ever attempt to bully anyone and I defy anyone to find one line in any blog posting that I have made that even hints at being a bully. Having strong opinions on a subject is not being a bully. I respect people have strong opinions because diversity in argument is good.  I claim to represent only my opinions and I belong to neither the TS nor TG camp. I am my own person.

I have responded to personal insults with what I perceive as appropriate measures and if people do not want me going after them then please do not insult me personally.  Argue the post and you can tell me my opinion is bat-shit off the wall and that is cool.  Call me a Monster because your psychotropic medication ran out or you over-medicated yourself and ducking will be in order.

I am firmly convinced people like this belong to the fellowship of the miserable within the transsexual community. I have had a wonderfully normal life with lots of ups and downs but believe me happiness trumps sadness ten-fold and I have not a single regret in my life since my surgery. I could spend a week telling you why someone that would identify themselves as NoBody  needs serious mental help and I basically dislike psychiatrists.

I am a great believer that your actions can speak as loudly as your words. Well she deleted every post she had made on my blog and they were many.  For what reason would anyone spend that much time deleting posts she made unless she was embarrassed or having mental issues.

I may have to rescind my policy regarding moderation of posts which I am disturbed about but I do not want to deal with this lunatic.  If she starts in I may have to do it but the only comments that will not be posted will be hers. For the time being it will remain as it is and if she makes relevant comments without resorting to her insanity then I have no problem. I will delete her rants because I have no interest in responding because poking the psychotic animals isn't as much fun as  I thought.

The only post on this blog that has ever referenced her was the previous one and this one and it is the last time I am dealing with her. I don't want to be her friend and hopefully it ends but if it doesn't I would hope that anyone else where she posts her rants would delete any comments about me because I just don't want to be tempted to poke the psychotic animal.

Someone has threatened to close my blog down

I guess I am really naive about this blog and internet usage because I have an enemy whose name shall not be spoken that has officially or "tentatively reported me to someone and is threatening to shut me down. Now I do admit I probably should just not respond to the "psycho animals" in the crowd but I just cannot help it. My only comment to the person whose name shall not be mentioned is to come on down and play.

I would never post any of your emails but I am posting public comments you made about me and emails I have sent to you.  Do enjoy.

The following is a snippet from a comment I made:

It ends here or I will put it all on my blog and let the blog public make the decision. It was quite unanimous before that you are bonkers.

Thu 7/16/2009 12:04 PM was an email you sent to me which I highly recommend you cross-check before continuing this lunacy.

This is in reference to a decidedly weird email that was sent to me on that date which explained to me why she went bat-shit crazy over a comment I made on HBS which I will get to later. The following is a comment on the blog here.

Again you show your ignorance. Please don't threaten me, or threaten to do another stupid thing. I've already made a "tentative" formal complaint. Please do not push it Elizabeth:

Digital Millennium Copyright Act - Blogger


Infringement notification




Contact Information

First name: *

Last name: *

Company Name: *

Copyright holder you represent: *

Your email address: *


Location of copyrighted work: *
The administrator of this blog site: http://ben-girl-notesfromthetside.blogspot.com/2010/11/is-there-really-only-one-kind-of.html

"Elizabeth Turner" is threatening to post personal copyright material on her site. She made the comment here: http://anna-es-asi.blogspot.com/2010/11/tgs-parsing-of-reasonormy-monthly-rant.html

The comment:

"Elizabeth said...
@Anne

Sorry this crazy person has started on me on your blog. She is constantly checking my blog seeing if I have posted something on her which I find humorous.

As to you xxxx I would suggest you read the terms of service for Google because they specifically say they don't care and unless you can get a court order they will tell you to drop dead. I guess you could falsely accuse me of something which seems to a thing of yours.

It ends here or I will put it all on my blog and let the blog public make the decision. It was quite unanimous before that you are bonkers.

Thu 7/16/2009 12:04 PM was an email you sent to me which I highly recommend you cross-check before continuing this lunacy."


What is the copyrighted work?: *
Personal emails.
LOCATION OF INFRINGING MATERIAL IN THE BLOG: *
http://ben-girl-notesfromthetside.blogspot.com/2010/11/is-there-really-only-one-kind-of.html

Location (URL) of infringing third party content: *
http://anna-es-asi.blogspot.com/2010/11/tgs-parsing-of-reasonormy-monthly-rant.html

November 27, 2010 8:06 AM

I am looking but oh yes this is a "tentative" threat isn't it.  All of this begs the question why would you harass me on Anne's blog like you did?  Hasn't anyone ever told you never to piss off the wrong people? The truly weird part is this lunatic follows it up with another comment that ends with what can best be described as quite baffling.

You Elizabeth are what many transpeople would refer to as a bully.

Anne began her blog trying to assimilate peace, and unity amongst people who have so much internal struggle within themselves that they find it difficult to trust anyone. She is now venting ire at people who could be allies in the fight to find hope. I doubt very much that you have the ability to do any more than judge people. Your support of anyone unlike you is intermittent, and unrealiable.

I mentioned Lynn Conway because she is one of the main forces of impetus for the tg agenda. I didn't mean to comment about her out of malice. I did it to wake you up. Even though there are many wonderful, and honest people amongst those who follow Lynn's, or people like Andrea James' guidance, there are also those who will undermind anything in order to get their way, and that includes any semblance of what was the work of Harry Benjamin. Many people now scoff at the mere mention of his name, and some are post-ops just like you, and I.

Again, I hope you know what you are fighting for, or against, because the truth that other people may envision, may not be as you, and I see it.

Before you again reiterate that I am "crazy", maybe you should take a closer look at yourself, and where you have been, and where you are actually going with all of this. I am not your enemy, and neither am I Anne's. I wouldn't still be here if I didn't have an open mind, and a caring heart. Think about that before you two denounce another person, who might just be trying to relate to you at the same level.

November 27, 2010 8:49 AM

I do not believe I have ever attempted to bully anyone and when one is attacked personally I find it hard to understand how that is being a bully.

If anyone out there has an explanation for this last paragraph I need some insight and preferrably from someone that has worked with the mentally ill. I will give it my best shot here but first some comments on something you posted earlier in this comment which is in bold. I am confused by this because and I will tell you why.

I don't believe Anne scoffs at Harry's name but that is her right but for someone like yourself who so desperately wanted to be recognized as a Type VI I am surprised but we will let it pass for right now. 

You are not my "enemy"? You came on another person's blog to harass me and you are not my enemy? With friends like you who needs enemies. You still want to be my friend? How many psychotropic drugs are you on?

When was my first interaction with this individual whose name shall not be spoken?  It was in June and July of 2009 which relates to a time when I was a member of the Yahoo HBS message board. Initially even on this blog I thought she was someone I had offended directly which lets face it I can do if I don't bite my tongue occasionally. I didn't on HBS because I have never been around any group of people that totally off the wall in my life and it calls for me to make a public apology to someone.

To Aria Blue I humbly apologize for saying your article about people learning the narrative and using it to get surgery when they should not was bullshit. There may not have been a narrative when I was a kid but the loons of the world have learned it well and you are correct that many use the "gay transsexual" paradigm as their narrative because it was all over HBS. They all demanded they were type VI and I sat there and read the posts and they were freaking weird as they attempted to re-write what Type VI is like it was some badge of courage or more correctly in their "male" eyes the "best" kind of transsexual because it is perceived as the most intense and thus the worst which can only be thought of as some form of male masochistic thought process I am not familiar with. You were basically right.

The last time I had been around the community was earlier in the decade probably in the 2000 to 2002 time-frame but only in a limited way. I ran into some crazy people like the following.

1. One supposed transsexual told me it was the greatest gift he had ever been given to be transsexual and he was blessed by god with his transsexualism. I told him that would be the devil not god.
2. A second one related this surreal story about how he had this sudden revelation late in life that he was a girl and transitioned and had surgery. He claimed there were no gender issues before and I told him he was probably blocking memories but he said certainly that he was not and I told him he was nuts for doing what he did and any shrink that passed him should lose their license. Basically he woke up on Thursday and decided at 50+ he was a girl with no gender issues which is bollocks.

For some reason the second story triggered a vitriolic response from the person whose name shall not be spoken and she basically was upset because she had been diagnosed Type VI and I have to admit I had no idea initially why she was upset but we will leave that to the imagination of my blog readers and let your imagination run amok. She was upset at me primarily because I said attempting to redefine Type VI to include very late transitioners was a big problem.  Here is a  partial copy of my email to her

Could you have been a Type VI as a child or could even xxxxxxx??  Absolutely, but your decisions blurred the possibilities and confused the issues and trying to redefine it to clearly include late transitioners is quite bad because the kids will be hurt more than they already have been. If I seem insensitive to that possibility then I am so sorry but my focus is kids like I was.
 

She had emailed me on 7/13/2009 because on HBS your email address is available sending me her telephone number and asking me to call her "to break the ice" if I remember correctly. She sent a second email and then a third detailing her life and that was the end of it because I thought there was no reason to be a odds with her.  She can believe what she wants because as the old saying goes opinions are assholes and we all have one.

I was encouraged to write a blog by several friends none of whom were the person whose name shall not be spoken. I enjoyed writing it and got upset with comments from someone and took them on but I have to reiterate I do not agree with some of her ideas but she is a brilliant writer and very knowledgeable on some things and I do respect and agree with many of her assertions. Several of her friends accused me of being something other than I was which is why I posted certain information none of which included a last name which the person whose name shall not be spoken has deliberately done on the blog above although to save everyone problems it was a last name of my first husband and a name I have never gone by. I use it for safety.

I posted two commentary articles about Mikki the scrabble player and the "Gay transsexual" which never mentioned anyone other than Mikki and me and certainly never mentioned the person whose name shall not be spoken. She posted a tirade of comments which are public property and then deleted them for some reason.  Here they are

mata ne said...

    The are Monsters who are born, and there are Monsters who are made.


    Which one are you?


    I am going to again risk my name, my reputation, but I will not risk the value of what I believe in. I am going to take you on a ride that goes back some 10 years:

    http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GWYF,GWYF:2010-24,GWYF:en&q=%22june+hingle%22

    http://www.google.com/images?rls=GWYF,GWYF:2010-24,GWYF:en&q=%22june%20hingle%22&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi

    http://groups.google.com/groups?rls=GWYF,GWYF:2010-24,GWYF:en&q=%22june%20hingle%22&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wg

    Cut and Paste those links please.

    Can you find the Monster in those links?

    Sorry, I was not born one, and I can't be made into one.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    What you are doing here is no different than what Aria Blue has been doing. It is just a repetition of the same. :(

    What is so odd is that Homophobias, and Transphobias all have roots in the same place. "The human conscience."

    It is more often than not that the people who have issues with themselves will end up being their own worst enemies. Their hate can become endless, and spread out to the same people that they may have once respected as equals.
    November 13, 2010 7:38 AM
mata ne said...

    The majority of those photos of mine came from a video that I made a few days before I was to leave for home 1500 miles away so I could attend my son's wedding. I made the video to show them what I would be wearing. At that time I with living at my sister's home, taking care of her's and her husband's two Yorkies. My brother-in-law had cancer, and both of them were living at a medical center 600 miles from their home. I stayed in their home a total of 8 months. I did my work from their also.

    I made the mistake of sending that video to a person I thought was a friend. I later discovered that she was a swindler, traitor, liar...you name it. She took that video and had the voice changed to a man's voice, and published it on the YouTube site. I later had her account with them closed. Her site was filled with things that satisfied her transvestic fetishisms, and yet she was a post-op?
    November 13, 2010 7:47 AM
mata ne said...

    That same person published photos on her Msn Profile of herself with a married man. The was after she told me about her dirty sex life as a whore. I found that man on Facebook. I also found has wife, and their newborn daughter, and discovered that the person I thought I knew as a friend was there as a friend to the man, and his wife. Can you imagine my fear for the wife and her newborn? The wife knew nothing about the affair, which I believe continues. The husband left a few weeks ago. The wife is devastated, and I am in fear that the whore, with all her deceptions, and betrayals, may have infected that family, in as she had told me that she was very ill for a long time. :(
    November 13, 2010 7:54 AM
mata ne said...

    Let's forget about her, and go to the Google "Groups" link.

    The majority of those postings were written by one person...a demented and obsessed "Transsexual".

    She called me everything from an Escort, where she listed me as one in the "Connecticut Jobs Listings", to a Murderer, and whatever her thrills of hate led her to say. I wasn't only person plagued by her. End of Story.

    The Spanish transsexuals are some of the most ignorant, and deceptive people.

    www.carlaantonelli.com

    Carla Antonelli is a self-described TS who is really a TG not-operated. Her site in managed not only by her, and by a male T admirer who delights in mocking God, and what gets in the way of Carla Antonelli's agenda. There is a Clan within the group of people who think nothing of hurting anyone that gets in their way.

    Because I am an American, and I support honesty, and I was a friend of the Harry Benjamin Syndrome people, and their basic principles, and that I trusted certain people who deceived me, I also became their victim. That spread into www.figinternet.org where they extended their thorns of hate. :(
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    So!

    What are you? A born Monster, or one in the making?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    This whole mess has become so obsessed, and cruel. :(


    Not every is like you.

    If you don't like how they may be affecting the life that encompasses us, then please stop contributing to what bothers you. You can't change it by becoming a Monster, and spewing out more hate, and scorn!

    If the Trans Community continues to get what they want, and if there are no legal boundaries, or protections for people who just want to go on living a normal life outside of the T-world grasp on them, then you lose.

    You gain nothing by commenting on things that irk you, if you do nothing about it. You are only demeaning who you are, and what you stand for.


    Mata ne
    November 13, 2010 8:24 AM
mata ne said...

    All this deception and hate has gotten to me too Elizabeth, and much more than you could ever imagine, but I will not let it take away who I am.

    If you want to help, then please help to implement laws that protect those who don't want the Trans agenda to take over their lives.

    Please look at www.carlaantonelli.com It is a site filled with propaganda, and hate, especially against people who believe in God. That is a perfect example of how society can be torn down to a level where there is no longer any truth. Their mere hate for Americans, God, Politicians, or people who fight against Mob-like intrusions into their lives is enough for a sane person to explode. But you can't stop them. They feel they have the freedom to recreate the truth as they see it, and to put down anyone, or anything that stands in their way. That same group of people have infiltrated www.figinternet.org. They refuse to allow groups like HBS to influence people. The Carla Antonelli people are the ones who influenced Andrea James to denounce Charlotte. That is how far reaching their arm of injustice, and hate has extended.


    So?

    Are you are born Monster, or are you growing into one?

    When does it stop Elizabeth?


    :((((((((


    Mata ne
    November 13, 2010 8:52 AM

mata ne said...

    I was also born with a boy's body. My testosterone was also low. Even up into my early twenties I was hit upon by males, and some of them who either were already married, and later married.

    Up until my late teens, I pushed the boys and men away. Maybe it was how I was brought up. As I have already said to you and others, I resisted it. I did everything possible to keep it from taking over the male that the body represented. I held it back until it exploded out of me. I was married at that time. It didn't matter any more. I was heterosexual from birth, and I remain heterosexual still.

    You don't need to analyze yourself Elizabeth. You know who you are. There was never that "Gay TS". It was just you, and what you felt was inside of you, and the time and the circumstances that brought it all about were just part of your experience in life. Maybe your timing was different than mine, but if you think that it makes you any closer to being anything at all that may make you any more real than me, then you missed something alone the way. Those kinds of thoughts make other people seem to be lesser than us.

    :( There is just too much of that kind of thing happening here, isn't there?

    It begins with self pride through self-evaluation, and it ends with putting down others because they are vulnerable, and less apt to be as wise and inpenetrable as we are.


    Please preserve the little integrity that we all have left, and try to respect the differences. If those differences affect your life, or your gutt feelings, then please find a way to resolve it, without becoming part of the same thing that would end up making us all look pretty bad in the end.

    The troublemakers won't go away, but we can overcome their agenda, by finding ways to get around it, and avoiding confrontation. I tried to fight them, but they will forever persist, and grow in numbers.

    We need to protect ourselves from within, and through legal channels. Then maybe people like us can spend more time concentrating on the blessings we've been given, rather than the lingering nemeses of our past.


    j
    November 13, 2010 9:43 AM

You will note that not a single mention was made of either post on my blog. I sent the person the following email .

I realize in my life I have said stupid hurtful things and have always tried to admit to them but that post was in no way aimed at hurting you or anyone else.

Liz

I did not realize the tirade was over the Mikki post also until I got another email and I responded:

What the fuck are you talking about xxxx? I remove no comments xxxx but I have no idea what your problem is. Mikki is a fraud or in my opinion Mikki is a fraud.  SO what she won a scrabble event so good for Mikki.

There is no relationship between those two posts whatsoever.

My past is my past and whether you like it or you do not it helped make me the person I am for better or for worse. I was fortunately or unfortunately there when a lot of what we define as the transsexual community began to form and I was involved with people who thankfully cared about me and I am sorry if you were denied that.  It was looking back at those times and harry that made me realize who horrible I had been to you originally and how horrible I felt hurting someone which but for fate could have been me and how wrong and myopic I was.

You are worried about the negative feedback I sometimes get yet you label me a MONSTER?? Please forgive me the cynics view but I got the feeling from your lengthy comments that you were just pissed at me for saying something that hurt you deliberately which I did not do and therefore you decided to accuse me of being evil basically.

You learn lessons from your past and whether others want to listen to those lessons is up to them. I am very careful who I allow into my personal life which is why I have servers set up remotely that I remote desktop into at a site and city not where I live and why certain friends use them. I trust nobody completely and unfortunately I need to add someone else to the list of do not trust.

I would suggest you reread the post but you have made up your mind. You are always welcome to post comments on my blog but this is your freebie.  

Liz

All my comments are available under the "Gay Transsexual" post for those interested.

I then get another weird email where she claims she is not my enemy and I responded.

We are not enemies. Read what you posted in your comments.  How else am I supposed to feel?

Under normal circumstances I would have ripped you a new asshole.

What the hell are you smoking?

Liz

I got another email as weird as the other and responded.

Look at what you said xxxx. Monster etc..

I am upset but not angry. Hurt but not mad and I do not want your phone number.

Liz

 She is so delusional she sends another email saying she did not call me a monster and I responded.

**********************************************************************

The are Monsters who are born, and there are Monsters who are made.

Which one are you?

***********************************************************************

You posted that as the first two lines of your long series of comments.

Get a grip on yourself xxxx. Your posts are staying put. Your comments are slurred and kind of incoherent but you said it so you can live with it.

The one who needs to calm down and get a grip is you.

I like you but this was over the line.

You almost sound like you are over medicated.

 She took offense to the medicated comment and I attempted to remember what happened on HBS and she made a comment in her email about "I'm a fake, and never could have been as real as you.  You win." which I have never implied but I was a little worried she was slipping over the end and responded even though she said don't write again.

I was wrong then xxxx because I was ignorant. I would prefer to think maybe it was something else but I have done nothing since those original horrible comments to hurt you.  I don't know what your problem with me is but you wrote that and I didn't.  You accused me of being a monster and I have no idea where that came from.

I am not the one passing out phone numbers.

Sorry but none of those posts on my blog were aimed at you so what am I supposed to think when I get this long rant totally off subject?

Liz

There was some other ugly stuff posted by her and deleted that I did not get a chance to save and I admit now I was getting angry. She is like dealing with a petulant child so since she could not be sent to her room I got nasty and commented about her issues with someone named Natasha which was probably wrong but she seems angry at everyone.

You are welcome to comment on anything I post. I am still troubled by what you posted and then deleted  from my blog. Like I said before I have no idea why there was that outburst and why you felt it was necessary to personally attack me but you are free to do so within reason.

I thought we had gotten by our initial issue where I felt remorse for hurting you because it was not right. You called me a monster and I have no idea why. Opinions are just that and are not worth much so you had your free shot at me but after that no more freebies.  I will strike back and I admit that is a personal weakness of mine and I did strike back.

I have no interest in reading anything additional about those issues and if they hurt you I am sorry for that. As for the rest of what you said about me and deleted I have copies and they were less than kind so I have no interest in discussing anything further with you.

The person who shall not be named  then was happy because someone called me a bigot over the Mikki comments which is their right. I have an opinion and I said it and can live by it so I responded to the person who shall not be named.

You should never have offered any information such as photos about anyone and I was hurt and mad about what you said so I struck back. Mikki is a transvestite IMHO and has nothing to do with you and me. Bringing that up is beneath contempt even for you.

I have opinions and I state them and only if I am attacked personally like you did do I get personal. You should never have offered photos and after what you said to me in all honesty I was worried and then you send me your phone number. I said what I said about Natasha to basically get back at you for the things you said about me. I find Aria intriguing because she is a good writer and obviously more informed on some issues than I am and was hoping you understood what made her say and write what she does because I think I posted twice there before I was banned for asking a hard question.

I said not ONE thing to you or about you in "Gay Transsexual" post and you went off on me like it was a personal insult to you. I was not talking about anyone but myself and you viciously attacked me and I said that was a freeby because I was mean to you once and was apologetic.  You then got even more vicious and I struck back with a legit question about you and Natasha. You brought her up not me. It takes two to have a fight.

You are the one that needs to look into things a little more closely and you are the one that attacked me and I can provide all the posts if you want to see them or better yet I will re-post them so everyone can see them. I have no idea why you seem so unhappy and right about now I do not give a damn why you are unhappy.  You wanted it to be personal and again I have no idea why you were upset about that post and then you were such a coward and deleted your posts but I understand why that happened.

You can comment on my posts but if you insult me or make it personal like you did with those comments then you will have to live with the comments.

My personal opinion is you a very unhappy person.  Why else would you log in as Nobody!!!!

Get back on your meds.

It actually turned out I was not mean to her a while back but posted something just like here they she thought was directed at her.  In retrospect after some of the emails she sent me the first time around she did fit the story I told.

After the above email she said she writes to me calmly and I go off the deep end which looks quite shallow from my viewpoint but I will leave that to the readers. All of this took place between 11/13 and 11/15 and I figured oh well it is over so forget about it until yesterday when she seems to have gone off her medication again.

For these emails and my comments on the blog I here the person whose name shall not be spoken has threatened me with shutting down my blog.  I guess I will leave it to the readers but here are the comments that started this just in case she deletes them again. She is welcome to comment but she needs to be warned comments are public property and I will save the person whose name shall not be spoken comments.

I leave it open to my readers to tell me if I was off the deep end in either my emails or response to the person whose name shall not be spoken. I do not believe I have because I have a right to defend myself from some crazy comments on my blog and derogatory remarks made elsewhere. I will leave to the person whose name shall not be spoken to post her own emails but that will not happen.  I apologize for the length of the post but it was necessary to provide as much information as possible and the following comments are added for further factual input. If I am wrong please let me know and I will attempt to no longer play with the "psycho animals" on the internet like the person whose name shall not be spoke.

nobody said...

@Kathryn,

It is such a curiosity that some people can claim certain things, while completely missing the point on which they based their previous attempts at vindicating their own internally conceived perceptions. (ICP) It's called self-induced ignorance. (SII) :) I think that it has something to do with a combination of inflated self-worth (ISW), and some previously mis-construed thoughts (MCT), coupled with a lack of conscientious observation. (LOCO) lol...I always wondered where that word came from. :)

In other words, I think that AnneRose is a basically good person, with good intentions, but she is becoming caught up in a web conjoined with like minds that begin to become blinded by each others addiction for claiming that they are better than thou. They don't know when to stop. They start off with a purpose, but end up with a "propuse". That word is Spanish, and it means "first-person singular". It becomes all about "I" (EGO).

In all honesty hon, I believe that it is better to just live one's own life, and not stick our noses into other's. The more I discover...the more I grimace. :(

Goodluck sweetheart. Just be yourself. If need be, just kick-ass, and walk away. You'll feel better for it, and it allows time to "reflect", which is something that seems to have been lost to some specially few.

kisses,


jh

November 26, 2010 7:17 AM

nobody said...

If I hadn't said it, sorry...I hope everyone who celebrated Thanksgiving ate too much. I hate feeling like I'm the only one. :(


For those who feel sad that Thanksgiving is over, I'm very sorry. I know the feeling. You make a beautiful, and delicious Apple Pie, and then it's gone. Demolished! Poof!


For those who still feel the need to oppose the Transgender Agenda after eating so much, I am very sorry also.

Try to understand that the intention is to not change the World, or the circumference of your stomach, but to fit stuff into it. Sometimes it takes a little "twisting", pushing, and forcing some of it down. If you eat too much of it, or if you are still stifled by the TG thingy, then just drink a some Diet Coke, or Sprite. A good "belch" works wonders.

:)

November 26, 2010 8:04 AM

nobody said...

I would like to make a comment about Your friend Elizabeth Turner. I removed what I wrote in her blogs because she is ignorant. I posted links. Without investigating what those links were about, Elizabeth rebutted with a nasty comment about a person "Natasha". Instead of Liz taking the time to read those links, she again said something stupid. :(

I have fought off many fakes...cruel, horrible people who aren't worth the shit they poop! But instead of Elizabeth taking the time out to read the truth, she again sucked herself into the same fucking ignorant trip she has been on for a very long time.

You Anne have joined that same team. Liz put me down long ago after she misread Harry Benjamin's book. She claimed that I was a fake, and her ignorance cost me some respect from people who otherwise had faith in me.

November 26, 2010 9:20 AM

nobody said...

You will turn into another Elizabeth Turner if you continue to follow "her" example. She, and you are now close to 65, and now just beginning the attempt to figure out what is happening with the meaning of transsexualism. 8#|

Big Fucking Deal! There is a lot more to worry about, like just living your own life! Why are people just now becoming alarmed about the mess out there? Why weren't you there supporting me, and those who were trying to hold on to the truth for all those years. NOW you all open your mouths??????? What? To become some kind of heroines????

November 26, 2010 9:29 AM

nobody said...

For your information, and the information of anyone who thinks otherwise...I REMOVED MYSELF FROM LYNN CONWAY's LIST OF SUCCESSES! I did it because I began to learn how mamy of those so-called women were not what they appeared! Many of them are hypocrites. Many of them lied to get where they are. Many of the very people who claimed to be True TS's are actually Autogynephiles...the very thing that Lynn Conway, and Andrea James would eventually reject as the "real thing" in their battle against Blanchard!

Lynn Conway called me personally one day to find out about one of them...a very famous person, who I knew personally. Lynn said things about that person that will forever ring in my ears. Lynn made some of the most transphobic comments I've ever heard. NOW, LYNN AND THAT PERSON ARE JOINED AS TG FRIENDS FIGHTING FOR THE SAME "NORMALIZATION", AND DEPATHOLIZATION OF THE TG CONDITION....WHICH INCLUDES "TRUE TRANSSEXUAL"!!!!!!

Do you really know who the real enemy is, or are you going to be just as ignorant as your friend "Elizabeth" or whoever she is really called?????


Why in Hell are you here now, when you really don't know what you are fighting for?

:(

November 26, 2010 9:44 AM

Elizabeth said...
To nobody,

I guess this is your attempt to out me so I appreciate that but then I guess it had to be expected since you are probably off your medication. Posting my full name is quite sad and you are quite pathetic.

I have avoided you at all cost because I wish you no harm. I have no time to read links about you and Natasha and the initial conflict a while back was not because I misread Harry Benjamin and since you have asked for it I may actually.

Out of the blue you attacked me over a posting that had nothing to do with me and now I will post all your comments because I saved them.

Anne I have no idea why this very sick individual has brought her issues with me to your blog.

She is a complete coward attempting to out me is beneath contempt and if she wants a war she has it.

November 26, 2010 12:43 PM

nobody said...

I didn't out you Liz. Your full name has appeared in several places which I will not mention. You figure it out if you feel you are so brilliant.

You never told me your name. When you emailed me, your full name appeared. I didn't out you. You out yourself. I blocked your email after you kept talking like an obsessed nutcase, just because I posted that your rants could turn you into a Monster (that is if you already aren't one).

Sorry hon, but you got my real name wrong.

I have issues? Your ignorance is your worse enemy. You can't justify it by saying that you have no time. ROTFLMFAO

You said: "Out of the blue you attacked me over a posting that had nothing to do with me and now I will post all your comments because I saved them."

Before you do that, you had better read the fine print of your blog account, and what happens if you personally break the agreement you accepted with them. :)

November 26, 2010 3:44 PM

nobody said...

@Liz

After I removed all my comments on your blog you made a comment that I must have been embarrassed, and that was why I removed them. I was not embarrassed sweetie, and if "you choose" to repost my comments for public view, then I will certainly embarrass you if that is your tactic.

November 26, 2010 3:56 PM

nobody said...

@Kathryn,

Anne urged me to keep blogging after I pretty much gave up on Liz (last posting):

http://ben-girl-notesfromthetside.blogspot.com/2010/11/why-is-there-such-anger.html

Anne claimed several times that she is one to put people down. Here's one:

http://ben-girl-notesfromthetside.blogspot.com/2010/11/gay-transsexual.html

"OK...Te following is just ne old woman's opinion so you can all take it for what it is worth.

First of all, I have NO CLUE what this current donnybrook or little 'dust-up' is about, and I reallt don't want to know. What I DO know, is that the majority of those involved have been around this very ame block MORE than once and recognize what a self destructive waste of time and energy it is."
....and this: "Since it is my belief that we all share a common goal, like the betterment or smoothing of the path for future generations of childen who share our plight, might I suggest that rather than continue prticipating in the cicular firing squad we move on to more productive endeavors."

I wonder now why she bothered to say those things. Talk about Hypocrisy! :(

November 26, 2010 4:07 PM

nobody said...

"Anne claimed several times that she is one to put people down."

Oops! :( Sorry for the error: Anne claimed several times that she is NOT one to put people down.

November 26, 2010 4:12 PM

Transgender Day of Remembrance and a jerk.

I admit there are times I get ticked off at the term transgender because well I am human and have my failings and one is being too associated with certain gender benders or gender queer people although I will say it again I do not hate or wish any harm on anyone but when you are approaching 65 and have stayed out of touch with this part of the world because it never has consumed me since I have worked and lived as best I could as the girl/woman I so desperately had to be I might not get some of it.

Do certain people go overboard on the Transgender Day of Remembrance?  Possibly but I need to ask a question and it is a simple question.

How can anyone be against preventing prejudice, physical harm, abuse, rape, murder, and god knows what else of any person because they are different? Remembering those lost is how you do that.  It is like never forgetting about the holocaust. How can you really go too overboard remembering people that were murdered for no reason other than being different?


This rather loathsome person on  the View from nine feet up calls it The Transgender Day of Victimhood or the Transgender Day of Forgettance and I would love to give her a dope slap but I am sure she could beat the crap out of me.

I had a dear friend murdered because she was a transsexual and lost several to suicide.  I had a dear friend Lana who had 2 of her best  friends murdered because they were transsexual. None of them worked in the sex trades. They are among the many that have died because of this crap and for anyone to trivialize this is not only beneath contempt but an individual whose very essence and decency I must question.

If you think we should just forget about all the people that were murdered because they may be transgendered please try and remember a very high percentage of them were transsexual and you could have been one of them. Has that ever crossed your mind?  Probably not because independent thought is not one of your strong suits. In fact the process of thinking on your part should be limited to changing gears on your truck.

I do realize as one of the Aria crowd you must post controversial comments to get an appropriate pat on the head like she gave you in an earlier compliment but deliberately diminishing those murdered or harmed by hate and intolerance is even beneath a tattooed neanderthal like you.  Well at least I thought it was but then people like you continue to amaze me with your hate and intolerance.

Remembering does not mean going out and having a party or anything public but even a short thought is better than this kind of intolerance. I guess when you have never been touched by this kind of hate it makes it easier to dismiss it and then using the term Transgender makes it easier for fools like her to dismiss it but I can assure you not ONE of the people wanted to be a victim whether they were murdered or even took their own lives out of despair.

Maybe it is because of my fast approaching 65th birthday but I remember all my friends that were transsexual and even gay that were murdered because they were different or even took their own lives because of despair but then I guess for me to expect that of this person would require me to accept her as a human being, a woman, and not a total loser which is debatable on all counts.

Is there really only one kind of transsexual?

I thought I was finished with my friend (sic) and her personal mission to make her point of view the only point of view because she is of course the only one that "understands" the transsexual condition because after all she is a "primary" transsexual as defined in the very limited and flawed Person-Ovesey study and she and all her minions are the only true transsexuals which quite conveniently fits her symptoms and of course she and her minions reserve the right to classify who is and who isn't and call others who oppose their myopic views transvestites frauds etc..

Of course one could say the same thing about me but the only mission I have is not my flawed opinions but the simple belief if you read Harry Benjamin's The Transsexual Phenomenon   you will have a better and more honest idea of what transsexualism is because Harry was and is to this day the only Physician of note in the United States that ever gave a damn about transsexuals and had absolutely no monetary interest in any area of the lucrative business of transsexualism. Harry did what he did because he cared without bias or preconceived notions of who or what we were or are.

This time it is a post called The HTS Myth and as is her normal process she manipulates the truth to fit her myopic view of the world and the paranoid beliefs of her and her minions that they as the only "true" transsexuals are under attack by gay men, transvestites, lesbians, phonies, frauds, transsexuals that are transgendered only, and all manner of other paranoid delusions too numerous and hard to remember. She has what can best be described as a personal "hate list" but of course she is not a "bigot".  Everyone else is.

The following comment stretches credulity. 

.....

Now it’s time to deal with the other weapon the sexologists use against us; the blending of youthful “effeminate” behavior with the TS narrative in order to erase the actual TS condition from the books and finish replacing us with gay and transvestite men.

The standard TS narrative is a mantra that goes something like this:  I was a feminine child who played only with girls’ toys.  I wore my mother’s clothes when I could, until my parents came down on me and forced me to stop.  I thought I was a girl until other people told me I wasn’t.  I was often bullied for being gay as a child because I was so feminine I couldn’t control my behavior.


This is what TS clients learned to tell their doctors and psychs, because that is what they wanted to hear.  Back when this story was passed from one “TS” to another in the early days, it was recited as a litany so that a person could get treatment.  So the common feeling among psychs at the time reflected this, and clients parroted back what the psychs wanted to hear.  This led to the condition later becoming conflated with being gay.  This is the problem as it stands.  The psychs (sexologists really)  currently involved with the TS area want to mislabel us as gay or transvestite, and nobody outside that little clique in the APA seems interested in putting a stop to their shenanigans.

Unlike Aria I actually was around when most of this started and she is per usual off course. Benjamin did the first comprehensive study of transsexuals and even after his book was published in 1966 there was no TS narrative and this certainly carried through until the 70's. If Aria had ever bothered to read Harry's book with her mind in comprehension mode she would realize that few of his first 152 patients were anything like her "narrative" of what a transsexual was or the supposed plot to turn replace poor Aria with gay men and transvestites. I doubt there would be any volunteers for such a perilous thought.

The transsexual Aria describes above is what Benjamin classified as a Type VI total psycho-sexual inversion transsexual of extremely high intensity and totally driven at all costs towards surgery. Harry found very few kids like this and I believe I was the second he came into contact with personally at a young age when we met in late 1959 although the number did increase during the 60's and peaked around 1970 and Harry felt remained consistent at around 1 in 200-300,000 births in the United States based on his understanding. Type VI is very rare which does lead strong credence to the belief most feminine or effeminate boys are NOT transsexual but there just are not that many Type VI transsexuals anyway.

Of the 152 transsexuals Benjamin had met none shared a narrative just a shared experience of pain, suffering, and gender dysphoria. I had never even heard the term transsexual when I met Dr. Benjamin in 1959 so where did my narrative come from? It came from my very existence. Of the friends I had only one of them knew another transsexual until they made it to New York City and that was from a very short time in San Francisco where she met Harry and none of them had a "learned" narrative. In fact none of our stories were remotely alike other than we knew at a young age something was wrong and we either should have been girls, felt we were girls, or wanted to be girls. Some were feminine, some were anything but feminine, and one was exceedingly effeminate.

I was feminine because of very low testosterone but in no way effeminate in a "gay" way as Aria likes to put it. I had no issues and no desires to cross-dress until around 9-10 when I was sure I needed to "practice" since "god" would turn me into a girl and I needed to be ready. That was not a high percentage thought process though and I was basically clueless. This despite being tormented by Psychiatrists and being told I would "turn out" gay or worse. When I realized I liked boys as a girl when I entered High School is when it got rough.

My friend Lana didn't understand her dysphoria until she was around 8 or 9. She just felt wrong was how she put it. Her life went south when she was 13 and realized she liked boys as a girl. Another friend was so masculine yet far more effeminate than either of us and she is the girl that committed suicide off the George Washington Bridge. She was my friend and it was a terrible loss.

Other than realizing as children we were not boys or something was wrong there was never a shared narrative and I defy you to find something in Harry's book that implies there is such a shared narrative at least from the early days and that is the only place that a narrative could have come from in the "early days" as you claim. The myth you want to support and feel has harmed you as a transsexual and has resulted in gay men subverting the transsexual world you believe in is the biggest myth of all. If there was a stereotypical  concept of a transsexual it was the one Person-Ovesey proposed as the Primary Transsexual or YOU!! You belong to the largest group of transsexuals and that is the Type V Benjamin transsexual or the stereotypical "trapped in a woman's body" syndrome or did you magically awaken some day and realize you were a girl?. That is also a myth since few fit neatly into any type of transsexual mold unless of course you get to define your own mold which is quite convenient.

Do I believe certain people learned what they had to say to get help? Yes, I absolutely do because when you are desperate for help as any transsexual is  rejection is not an option regardless of the age but then of course we have to assume you know this.  I would be interested in Aria's narrative as in the Aria story but then I bet it fits neatly into the window you have defined for yourself. I would really like to know when she transitioned and how many years post she is so we have a clue how she has gained this great experience in all things transsexual.

Do I believe there are differences? Yes I do and I do not want those differences lost but only the shallow and weak of mind believe someone can steal their womanhood from them. If you are a woman how does one steal it from you?? Do they repossess your vagina? Do they reprogram your mind? I guess maybe when you are nearing 65 it looks different for the old folk like me. I lived it and had no desire to rule it like others today. I had the life I wanted and have lived it without regret. Instead of worrying about some mythical paranoid collusion to destroy the transsexual you might want to try living for a while.

There is no way to guarantee that someone cannot slip threw the cracks and get surgery that should not but the presumptuous nature of your beliefs make it seem you believe a high percentage of post operative women are transgendered and thus not transsexual and do not measure up to you because you are one of the few "true" primary transsexuals based on you obvious medical expertise as an online savant in transsexualism.If they live and function as women just what is the difference again?

Nobody knows a single thing about you yet everyone must take your word on how everyone should live their lives, decide their alliances, whom to trust, who is transsexual, who is a sock puppet, and everything else related to your paranoia.

All I see is a bunch of liberal elite know-it-all pseudo feminist fools like you and Sandeen masquerading as leaders of the transsexual or transgender  niches you seem to have carved out for yourself with both of you fools worrying about who is what and why I am right and you are wrong. You are both nuts!

Now some pertinent information and facts from Harry's book..

Dr. Benjamin put these paragraphs in his book:

The transvestitic urge (fetishistic or transsexual) contains an element of addiction. Larger "doses" may be required for certain individuals as time goes on. Therein may lie a "progressive" nature of TVism in some instances. If untreated and uncontrolled, "dressing" may be desired more and more frequently and even the idea of physical changes through hormone treatment or through an operation may be gaining ground, particularly in unfavorable - that is to say, constantly stimulating - surroundings. Here psychotherapy and proper guidance at the right time may help, provided a transsexual tendency is not too deep-seated.Such seemingly progressive aggravation of transvestism was rarely noticed under treatment, although it did apparently occur in a few cases. However, later on, these patients proved to be initially unrecognized transsexuals. The opposite was more frequently observed: under estrogen medication, the desire to "dress" became often less demanding and less sexual and the inability to indulge grew somewhat less frustrating. The explanation probably is that the libido was reduced in its intensity through estrogen and since the transvestitic urge is part of the libido, it was likewise lowered. But I am anticipating a later discussion.

The foregoing paragraphs (if repetition may be permitted) apply chiefly to that form of transvestism that is its own purpose, which is to say that it is not the chief symptom of transsexualism. As soon as physical changes are desired, it ceases to be true transvestism, and inclines toward transsexualism (Type IV of S.O.S.; table on page 22). The full and complete transsexual (S.O.S. V and VI) finds only temporary and partial relief through "dressing." I have even met transsexuals who would not "dress" at all."What good is it?" they said; "it does not make me a woman. I am not interested in her clothes; I am only interested in being a woman." That is the true transsexual sentiment.

If the transsexual does find relief in "dressing," to do so would be the first logical advice to be given therapeutically. Its permissive character can be questioned by those who may think of the law before they think of the patient, or who may have insufficient experience along these lines, or who are the type that, automatically, favors prohibition. Too many individuals are that way; what they do not like must be forbidden and punished. Then they are satisfied. I have even met transvestites who dislike (or pretend to dislike) transsexualism so much that they are against estrogen treatment and operation (for reasons of self-protection?). There are also transsexuals who dislike transvestites as well as homosexuals. Intolerance can be found in strange quarters.

I find this quite fitting today. Even in 1966 Harry Benjamin realized this is not black and white and it is not singular in definition because the human species is so diverse and no two are the same so why would some fool believe there is only one type of transsexual? Could it be a self doubt issue in the complainant?


The following is what Harry wrote about concerning motives for surgery.

Four Motives for the Conversion Operation

 My clinical impression of the more specific reasons why transsexual men want conversion surgery caused me to identify four principal, fundamental motives within the general picture of sex and gender disorientation.

The first, foremost, and most frequent is the sexual motive. It concerns particularly the younger transsexuals. Their sex drive is not that of a homosexual man but that of a woman who is strongly attracted to normal heterosexual men. In love-making, their male sex organs are in the way and must be altered so that the lover can be accommodated in as normal a manner as possible. A wellfunctioning vagina is therefore indispensable. Marriage with the adoption of children is the goal for most. But not infrequently, promiscuity, prostitutional or nonprostitutional, appears tempting for a period of time. "Let me try out my new toy for a while," one very attractive young "convert" pleaded with me when I pointed out to her the disadvantages and risks of promiscuity and prostitution.

The second motive, always present, but often overshadowed by the sexual, is the gender motive. Especially for the older transsexuals, the urgent need to relieve their gender unhappiness can be powerful and impressive. "Would you want the operation," I frequently asked, "if there could never be a chance for any sex relations with a normal man?" Some hesitated to answer, then said they would have to think it over. Those were the younger ones in whom the sex motive predominated. But others replied unhesitatingly, "Yes." They admitted they might lose something of their future happiness, but the gain would still be much greater than the loss. "I will feel free for the first time in my life," said one forty-year-old, referring to her "imprisonment" in a male body.

The third motive is even more universal. It is the legal motive. The constant fear of discovery, arrest, and prosecution when "dressing" or living as women is a nightmare for many. They want to be women legitimately and have a legal change of their sex status. Alas, red tape, if not personal antagonism of some bureaucrats, is their powerful enemy. The impossibility (in the great majority of cases) of changing name and status (on the birth certificate) while male genitalia are still present, is a strong incentive for surgery. The legal change is somewhat easier afterward, but by no means easy. Red tape is a rather enduring adversary, especially in some states of the Union. (See Chapter 9. )

The fourth motive is a social one and applies only if the transsexual patient happens to have a conspicuous feminine physique, appearance, and manners. It may constantly embarrass him through snickering, pointed remarks, and knowing looks. It has even endangered some of them through physical attacks by moronic, would-be "he-men," sometimes undoubtedly latent homosexuals who were "protesting too much." The appearance of the very feminine-looking young man could also be a serious handicap in procuring a job.

"I hated to go out with my son," a mother once remarked to me. "He embarrassed me no end by his looks. Now he made the change and lives and works as a girl (waiting and hoping for the operation). Now I am proud of my new and attractive 'daughter.' A former nasty remark from someone is now - if anything a wolf whistle. I love to be seen with her."

From personal observation, I could certainly verify the attractiveness of this otherwise completely inconspicuous "young lady."

In many patients, all four motives, especially the first three, play a part, merging and overlapping according to individual traits and circumstances.

Of the 152 patients Dr. Benjamin had actually treated in both New York and San Francisco at the publishing date 51 had surgery performed. they crossed the following age boundaries with the youngest being 20 and the oldest 58 so lets end this BULLSHIT about late transitioners spouted

23 in their 20's
14 in their 30's
11 in their 40's
3 in their 50's

In the 51 that had surgery the first evidence of transsexualism is as follows with added information:

Early childhood 43
Puberty 2
Unknown 6

Evidence of childhood conditioning was as follows:

Positive conditioning 12
No evidence 28
Doubtful evidence 10
Early history unknown 1

In perhaps twenty-three patients, the sexual motive appeared to be dominant. The gender motive seemed to prevail in twenty-eight cases. A sharp separation is not possible. As explained previously, the legal motive exists in all cases and the social motive has to be thought of in only a minority.

Of these 51 patients, twelve married as women. Also, twelve were married previously as men. Five have experienced married life from both sex angles (as a male, unsuccessful, some not even consummated); five were divorced as females and three remarried one or more times.

The following were Harry's conclusions.

Conclusions

My observations have forced upon me the conclusion that most patients operated upon, no matter how disturbed they still may be, are better off afterward than they were before: some subjectively, some objectively, some both ways. I have become convinced from what I have seen that a miserable, unhappy male transsexual can, with the help of surgery and endocrinology, attain a happier future as a woman. In this way, the individual as well as society can be served. The rejection of the operation and/or treatment as a matter of principle is therefore not justified.

For the losers of the world that would dismiss some because they have had surgery but do not fit the "image" or the "personal" belief of what a transsexual is because they identify transgender I give you this paragraph from Harry's book.

One thing seems certain. While great conservatism should prevail in advising, consenting to, and performing a conversion operation, all possible help should be given those who present a fait accompli by having undergone the irrevocable step of surgery. It seems to me to be the duty not only of physicians, but also of the community, to pave the way as much as possible for such persons so that they can succeed in their new pattern of life as members of the opposite sex.

Please read the last paragraph again

In other words you and I are no better nor any worse than anyone else that has had surgery. I am not better because I was the young feminine boy and neither is Aria and her self described non-feminine transsexual. We all swim in the ocean of transsexuals.

The following was part of Dr. Benjamin's conclusion in Appendix A.

 Concluding Remarks and Outlook (December 15, 1965)

The collection of statistical data in the preceding pages was closed at the end of 1964. Toward the end of 1965, a total Of 307 cases of the transvestite-transsexual phenomenon were observed. Among them were 193 males (S.O.S. IV, V, and VI); 62 of them were operated upon. Besides, there were 27 female transsexuals; 11 of them had either hysterectomies or mastectomies or both performed. The rest of the males were transvestites.

The additional number of clinical observations has not materially changed a tentative facit drawn from the clinical material presented in this book. A few definite factors seem to have emerged.

The etiology of the transsexual state is still largely obscure, but a light seems to blink here and there in publications from the laboratories of brain physiologists.

Childhood conditioning and possible imprinting undoubtedly have a connection with the development and the intensity of the transsexual phenomenon, but can only be considered as contributory or as one of several possible causes. The presence of an inborn, organic, but not necessarily hereditary origin or predisposition appears more and more probable. Further research, aside from psychological and endocrine studies, will most likely have to concern itself primarily with work in two areas: genetics and neurophysiology.

For the tools of the world  this is what scientific research entails and is about. facts, facts, facts, and more facts not the preconceived ideas of pseudo scientists like  Money, Zucker, Blanchard, and others trying to prove preconceived concepts about the relationships between gay boys and feminine transsexuals or whatever pet peeve some lay person has.

Again there is not ONE specific type of transsexual.  It would be and is convenient for some to propose such hypothesis and they do for their own myopic and prejudicial belief that it makes them better. They will tell you they are not elitists and will rail against old timer elitists because it is what they do to defer closer analysis of who is the elitist. They probably do it because they have serious inferiority complexes based on the self-belief they have been persecuted because they are transsexual.

I have yet to meet a transsexual that has not faced some issues but we survive and we carry on. At least in my time we did not try to crap on others because we thought we were better. Maybe the old days in some ways were better and maybe we should get back to basics and use the understanding Harry had for us verses the loons of today.

Aria's last paragraph is interesting.

Don’t tell your childhood experiences to these people.  Don’t speak to them of anything.  Deprive them of their research subjects.  We must maintain this information blackout until this group is gone from the scene and are replaced by people who don’t want us destroyed.  And make no mistake, if these people get their way they will do their best to wipe us from the face of the earth.

Resist.

Somehow I think Harry is looking down and shaking his head at this stupidity. There are people out there that care and understand. Dr. Spack at Children's Boston is certainly one such person who deals with children. Not talking to Blanchard or someone of that ilk may delay things but the more relevant information available means there is more information available to refute the myth purveyors but then again if you are a myth purveyor I guess information is your enemy.

The following items have been added

1. Appointment card from Dr. Harry Benjamin for May 25 a Thursday in 1972.

2. Picture taken in 1978 in Beverly Hills before a nose job which I admit to. I was 32.

3. The card for Roberto C. Granato my surgeon.

4. Address of Yonkers Professional in Granato's hand.

This is for Aria and her gang because I do believe the post that will follow shortly will scorch a few feathers and I am sure I will be called a transvestite, fraud, phony and so forth

I might post my letter from Granato also with names blanked out.