Wednesday, December 1, 2010

Sometimes you need to poke the animals

Blog post note #1
Aria seems to feel it was an insult to use the term animals which was not aimed at her but an attempt at a bit of wry humor because the phrase Do not poke the xxxx or Don't poke the xxxx implies if you aggravate me you will be sorry or get hurt. I did think animals was a better metaphor but I could redo the title as
Sometimes you need to poke the transsexual but that seemed a little nasty.

Sometimes you just cannot please everyone.

I have been thinking quite a lot about the transsexual narrative lately. A lot of this may be because of my issue with a certain person or the issue she has with me is more to the point. I guess if there was a narrative it started with people like Christine Jorgensen and her story but I am afraid the narrative everyone complains about or talks about or discusses the most often is the narrative of kids like I was or the feminine boy syndrome which has caused a great deal of controversy in and out of the medical profession.

The normal narrative I hear so many   repeat is I knew I was a girl early on, I told everyone, I was feminine, I liked boys, and so forth with individuals diverging off the path at some point. There is never any real definition of how or why one is that way and to be honest too many claim it because it is convenient and will get you help regardless of the age help is sought at. The truth is it is just not that simple and there are many reasons for it but first I will describe me and then discuss what I think really happens in many in my opinion based on just my experiences.

I remember telling grandfather I was a girl when he told me "be a good little boy and get him his pen" as we sat together preparing for him to do the New York Times crossword puzzle in ink while he pretended I actually helped. I remember telling him "but I am a girl" and I have absolutely no idea why I said it other than I believed i was a girl.  There is no reason for this to happen and as a bright child after I was sat down by my grandfather I knew physically I was not a girl but then it isn't physical is it.

There were no girl toys in my house with two brothers and the only girl child in the neighborhood was Roberta who lived several houses down and was 1 year older than me. Even after my parents knew I never faced any issues because I didn't push things because my mom contracted paralytic polio and I was distraught over that but I remember asking my mom when she got home why I could not dress like other girls.  I did identify more with Roberta than boys and by 6 physically I was very different from my brothers.  They were stocky and strong like my dad and I was thin and consistently mistaken for my mom's daughter if we were out together.

In my mom's letters to Harry early on in the October-November time-frame in 1958 she asked Harry why her son thought he was a girl and Harry used the word angeboren which in German means it is inborn based on my translation. All I remember is I had no idea why I felt that way but I knew I was a girl and I wanted to be a girl which is why mom took me to the first Psychiatrist. I was not running around screaming like a little brat that I needed to live as a girl and I certainly was not cross-dressing at such an early age unless it was when I played house with Roberta and I always wanted to be her little sister.  Go figure!

It was getting caught by Roberta's father that triggered the Psychiatrist adventures that would begin my attempts at suicide which were not because I wasn't allowed to be a girl but I was terrified of being what they said I would be which was at times very unflattering and being told you are crazy by a Psychiatrist is scary for a very confused 8 year old kid even one as bright as I was. I was just so totally confused it seemed hopeless because there was nobody to help me. In all honesty I was so confused by it all at times I was in a daze but I was kind of shy and reserved out of fear they would stick me in some mental hospital as was threatened by several Psychiatrists.

The gender discomfort began to get more intense as I approached my tenth birthday. Lots of boys are pretty at a young age but they change over time and become boy pretty if that makes sense but that didn't happen for me and I was 2-3 years younger than everyone in school and the bullying began because I was tall for my age even at 10 and boys were learning they liked girls and boys started mistaking me for a girl which I actually liked. It was around 10 that I simply asked my mother why I just couldn't be a girl which I am sure confused her.  My suicide attempts up until then were because Psychiatrist's said I was crazy and would remain a boy and grow into a man and I better get use to it along with some very vile names and physically I was not developing like most boys and certainly not like my two brothers.

I think the concept of intensity is not discussed enough when discussing us. I have no idea how to categorize it but Harry made an initial attempt with his three categories of  transsexuals but the key point is intensity changes over time. In my case the intensity grew over time because when you are 4 or 5 what the heck did I know about my condition. I thought I was a girl and over time the Gender discomfort became worse. It grew more intense and I don't know why but it did. I became more uncomfortable in my own skin which is a weird thing to say but from 10-12 I know my mom would tell you I cried an awful lot about it and begged her to let me be a girl. My mom never put me down during this time although I know she wanted to "cure" me.

I was very confused and really hurting. There were weird moments like when our neighbor gave birth to a son and I got to hold him and I remember telling my mom "he is so beautiful" and I didn't want to let him go. It was around this time I began to do some cross-dressing because I was practicing for when I became a girl but it was not extensive.

There is no such thing as a gay 10 year old because quite simply the number of ten year old's that are sexually aware and aware of their sexual preference so will these loons that call young kids please stop calling effeminate or feminine boys homosexuals or gay. Not until puberty kicks in does any human became homosexual, heterosexual, or bi-sexual and puberty kicks in sometime between 10-14. Because someone is feminine or effeminate does not make them gay at any time from birth to puberty and there is no such thing as pre-homosexual.

After my 12th birthday is when life took a big turn but first a short discussion on the MTF transsexual condition. If being MTF is a birth defect and a MTF is really a girl and an FTM is really a boy is where many including Aria and her flock lose credibility in their myopic beliefs. When puberty is reached the vast majority of girls like boys and the vast majority of boys like girls. Making the claim that a MTF transsexual who likes boys is gay falls apart based simply on the premise that transsexualism is inborn.  In point of fact if a MTF likes girls it is they that are gay or lesbian.  Any other premise falls apart unless this is NOT a birth condition. If gender is between the ears then a MTF transsexual regardless of how hard they repress their transsexualism should like boys or certainly be predisposed to liking boys based simply on the percentages. I agree this is a simplistic view but it is more based in fact than someone I will talk about later.

I realized after my 12th birthday I was attracted to boys and it was decidedly scary. I was not gay because my gender was female so liking a boy was normal for me but I was constantly bullied because of appearance and a natural inclination towards being feminine because I really was a girl. Personally I never tried to attract boys out of fear but when a boy broke down my defenses I certainly did not push him away.  He actually saved my life both emotionally and prevented a suicide attempt.

I had never thought once about sex or sexual preference before I was 12 and had a similar attitude towards boys that most genetic girls have.  They were icky and too rough and so forth. That changed and it was scary realizing boys were cute and I went to my mom and this was eventually what scared her into writing to Harry but it did make her decide to take me to Children's Hospital in Boston where the low testosterone level was discovered and a slightly elevated estrogen levels were found for whatever that is worth.

It is very simple.  You cannot have it both ways.  If being transsexual means we are born this way so our gender is predefined, I believe this, then since a MTF is the female gender liking boys is 100% normal. Why am I writing about this? Well we now get to the point of the post.

In  Aria's   latest blog post she says being transsexual has nothing to do with being gay which is 100% correct but per usual Aria is off-base. I would hope that Aria would answer a question but we all know the Queen of Hysteria never answers questions and we are to believe her because she is Aria and yes I am poking the paranoid animal in this case.

Aria has this paranoid belief that somehow people are trying to replace "true" transsexuals, which of course she belongs to, with gay transsexuals.  There is where her argument goes down the toilet to be blunt because there is no such thing as a gay transsexual unless said MTF or FTM transsexual as an awareness of sexual preference and it is the same gender they identify with.

The following paragraphs are contradictory.

When I pointed out that transsexual children (reproductively male) are not effeminate, I had a specific purpose in mind.  While it is true that these children displayed little outward sign of the true problem, that is because by that point the window of opportunity for observing them had passed.  There is no data at all on true ts children prior to this wall of silence.  At the point the child is being put to the question by a cold, authoritative figure, the child has withdrawn from the world and you will gain no insight into them whatsoever.  You other TS people will understand why this is so.  Others can just guess.

By 7-10 years of age the transsexual individual has long passed the stage where their self-knowledge can be expressed freely; the real world has come crashing in and the bleakness of their fate is clear.  Whether its the admonitions of their parents or the evidence of their own eyes, these kids are all too aware of reality.  Transsexual kids have a physical birth defect; that doesn’t mean they are crazy.

First off there is absolutely not one single reputable study that supports her premise that all transsexual children are not effeminate.  Aria knows this how?? There is data on this fact and she herself supplied it in the Person-Ovesey study which even if it is flawed it did point out that of the 10 effeminate/feminine children 5 were truly transsexual.  Now Aria cannot have it both ways since she firmly believes the "primary" transsexual defined by Person-Ovesey is who she is and has made frequent claims that it was the effort to change this definition of "primary" was done to rob her specifically of her position as a primary transsexual.

The last line in the second paragraph blows her entire premise coldly out of the water. If it is a physical birth defect sweetie then you better like boys or you are a lesbian which is fine but it does not make you better than anyone else which is your main claim per usual. For someone that has consistently claimed they believe some want a hierarchy or believe in elitism you sure seem hell bent on setting yourself up as "the elite".

I am guessing here but I am betting this is really Aria's narrative we are reading here. Since it is her narrative it is of course the only real narrative.  I do agree transsexualism initially has nothing to do with sexual orientation as she states but since a transsexual identifies with a different gender than their birth gender sexual preference will play a part since by nature humans are a sexual species. 

So while the “effeminate” young boy (pre-homosexual) is expressing himself freely with gender play and his open mannerisms, such things are clearly forbidden to the transsexual child and serve only as a reminder of the horror that awaits them later in life.  As time goes on, dreams are dashed before they were dreamt, and the future descends into a dark cloud of sadness.  The affectations of gender as social play are meaningless to the TS child.  And this is where you can draw clear distinction between the young pre-homosexual and the TS child.
This is a typical Aria generalization presented as fact but I do believe it is a look into who Aria was and unfortunately still is. Every child is different as every life is different as every transsexual child is different as every human is different.  There is no one narrative that fits everyone whether they be normal or transsexual yet Aria wants one narrative because it is her narrative. It is no different than me trying to push my narrative on everyone else as the only narrative.  It would be both myopic and totally wrong as is Aria's. To claim that there is no such thing as an effeminate or feminine transsexual is not different than one claiming the only transsexuals are effeminate or feminine. It is total rubbish and there is absolutely not one iota of factual proof she is correct other than her constant rants about it which begin to sound more like the paranoid musings of someone who has never come to grips with who or what they were or are.

Aria uses the simple fact she internalized her transsexualism probably out of parental fear as her basis for this mantra she and her followers profess to be the only narrative for transsexualism. 

I read with some amusement the writing of people who claim they were just so effeminate that they couldn’t help themselves.  They couldn’t stop themselves from making out with boys when they hit puberty, and the reason they want a sex change (or in some cases already had one supposedly) was because they need to have sex with straight men.  Sorry to inform you, that’s just called being gay.

Aria is really hung up on this issue but again she uses a generalization as fact. I am not sure if this is a shot at me but it could be but believe me I was attracted to boys but the one boy that broke down my wall of fear used a battering ram and any MTF transsexual that likes boy is not gay they are heterosexual but then you are confused about a lot of things.

This begs the question of what did Aria do when she reached puberty? Was she so pure of heart she was asexual and avoided contact with both genders or had she so buried her "femaleness" that she dated and screwed girls to prove her manliness to others which I must assume is part of the mantra or did she just masturbate in a dress but wait a second if I remember correctly she didn't ever cross-dress or feel like a girl after she managed to push it deep into the nether reaches of her mind.

There is a clear difference between the super-chiasmic nucleus of gay men and transsexual women.

There is a clear difference between the INAH-3 area of gay men and transsexual women.

There is a clear different between the BSTc of gay men, and transsexual women.
So how is this relevant for someone that happened to be what you described as a feminine/effeminate transsexual?? Do you have proof in here that the Type VI Benjamin transsexual does not fit as part of the transsexual women?  Of course you do not. There is no correlation between your claim and the results of these relatively limited studies but I guess if you scream it loud enough the fools that believe in you will fall into line and genuflect but simply posting it does not make it true. In my opinion you are full of shit on this subject like you have been since day one.  You have your myopic beliefs and everything has to fit into that world.

Thinking back to the lives of children, what would you expect from a little girl once she realizes something is very wrong?  Would you expect her to go blithely about her life, knowing that she is horribly deformed, with no ill effect whatsoever?  Knowing that everyone has labeled her wrong, would she then stupidly proceed to act out “effeminately” and chase boys as if nothing is wrong?  Of course not.  It’s the basic definition of the condition itself.  And that lack of self-knowledge would be a sign of delusion, not transsexualism.

I actually would expect every child to react differently based on their environment, parents, and how intense the need to be a girl is or became over time. I am not sure where the chase boys part comes in because honestly I have never known a young transsexual that ever chased boys and I have certainly known many more intense child transsexuals than you have.  This includes children that were both effeminate, feminine, and neither but all were intensely transsexual as children.  Not a single one of them ever "chased" boys and I would suggest you check whose narratives you listen to but then generalization and using your own perceived stereotypes is what you are best at.

Transsexualism is not defined by sexual orientation no matter what some people would have you believe.  When someone tries to make you feel “less than” because of who you love, treat that person as you would any random stranger started talking down to you because of your sexuality.  Don’t give self-appointed trans “experts”, whom you don’t even know past the internet persona, the power to make you feel insecure about yourself simply because you don’t fit some ancient scale that has been misapplied in the first place.

I totally agree with this paragraph and would like to ask you why anyone should believe you since you are the very "trans  expert" you decry in this paragraph. Oh let me guess you are the one trans expert everyone can believe. Transsexualism by itself is not defined by sexual orientation but when humans reach puberty they do have a sexual awakening sometime in the time-frame after puberty begins. I gather we can all put you in the I was not interested in boys column which is fine because if you liked girls that is fine or even if you liked both.  By the way how old were you when you actually realized you needed to get off your ass and do something? Were you 25, 35, or older?

We should never use some ancient scale that Aria does not believe in because Aria has a better scale and it is the Aria scale which she conveniently fits so comfortably in and also allows her to deny access to her "privileged" and 'elitist" world of the Aria transsexual because after all Aria is a "true" and "primary" transsexual. Replace transsexual with asshole and you are closer to the truth.

There are transsexual men, and transsexual women.  There are transsexual gay men, and transsexual lesbian women.  There are transsexual men and women who are bisexual.  Being gay, or lesbian, or bisexual is not a pathology, and neither is it diagnostic of TS.  Sexuality has no bearing on TS whatsoever.

Being transsexual is clearly a gender condition and I agree is somehow related to a rewired brain that makes one female. The real question I have here is why are you using the term "transsexual women" etc. because I clearly remember you taking apart someone on your blog Aria that used that term. I guess it is OK if Aria uses it because well Aria is the Queen of Hysteria about the attempt to destroy her life as a transsexual woman or was it a woman? You switch terms and wordage so often I do find it interesting you cannot keep a consistent choice of words. Sexual preference is as much a part of being a human as the perception of one's gender. They are interwoven because once puberty is reached we do change. The majority of girls like boys with a small minority liking girls and most boys like girls with a small minority liking boys.

It is who we are as a species and you may want to deny it but it is a simple fact of life and transsexuals are absolutely NOT immune to it. It is totally illogical to believe that someone who is wired as a girl would not have similar feelings for boys regardless of whether they are effeminate boys or macho pseudo alpha male athletes. You are who you think you are in your brain but you seem to want it only on your terms.  I am betting you liked girls and are embarrassed by it but you should not be but then I am guessing because other than your paranoia nobody has a clue if you are really transsexual or still in transition or even possibly post.  We have only your word for it and after all you did tell us not to listen to anyone you are not sure is or was born transsexual.  Your words not mine.

There is only one kind of TS.  It is a birth condition that has specific characteristics.  It is not defined by sexuality, but by the sexually dimorphic brain.  Reject attempts to categorize you by your orientation.  Don’t let these people split us up.  They have succeeded at the divide and conquer strategy far too long.

I agree with this paragraph so why are you trying to categorize some kids as gay, pre-homosexual, and all the other bullshit you put out there? Split up who exactly Aria. You are the one providing the categorization and demanding that everyone fits under the umbrella you define as transsexual. Whether one is a heterosexual or homosexual transsexual is not relevant after puberty but it is part of who people are as much as it is after surgery.

I do have questions for you but I know they will never be answered.

  1. How old were you when you realized you were transsexual or had gender discomfort?
  2. How old were you when you realized you needed to get off your ass and do something?
  3. How old were you when you transitioned?
  4. Have you had surgery and if so how many years post-op are you?
  5. Why are you so obsessed with young transsexuals and why do you feel you must discredit their existence if they were feminine or effeminate?

I do need to say something about a comment on this post on Aria's blog.

lisalee18wheeler says:
My two cents, and I know it’s going to be unpopular, is that all these first gen transitioners are leaving something out, or distorting the truth entirely. And as nice a man as Harry Benjamin was, he was far from being a humanitarian.
Take the red pill… :-)

She has a blog called The View from Nine feet up  and drives a truck which is kind of cool.  She provides a nice picture of herself in front of a beautiful Freightliner  tractor on the bottom of the above link.

 It is quite obvious lisalee does not understand what a Humanitarian is:

Definition of HUMANITARIAN

: a person promoting human welfare and social reform :

By its very definition Dr. Benjamin was a humanitarian. I do realize this was a shot at me so Aria will post another "good girl" on your vapid blog but sorry I don't turn the other cheek. I do find this post hilarious considering we know absolutely NOTHING about your fearless leader Aria. Who is this mystery person? I would say I doubt she is even transsexual but I do remember Anonymous T Girl posting something about going out with her on a date with her boyfriend and Aria's boyfriend so I give her the benefit there. But we still know nothing about your leader other than she is paranoid.

Dr. Spack at Children's in Boston is treating many kids like I was but like I have said before being an effeminate boy does not make one transsexual in the same way that being an effeminate boy transsexual does not make the boy not transsexual and gay.

I would have to enshrine Aria as the Queen of the Fellowship of the Miserable because I have never read anyone so upset with everyone and so paranoid about things there is no proof of. Please provide me with proof the Medical establishment is trying to replace transsexuals with gay anything.

The definition of Paranoia taken from Wikipedia:

Paranoia is a thought process heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and/or delusion. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs concerning a perceived threat towards oneself. Historically, this characterization was used to describe any delusional state.
I think that definition accurately describes Aria.

Every single one of us born transsexual is an individual.  Any attempt to jam us all under one single definition for transsexual is wrong. Transsexuals are as diverse as people not born transsexual. By definition that means if we identify as female the spectrum of sexual preferences would be similar to genetic women. Nobody is any less or more transsexual because I do agree you either are or you are not but at the point that realization occurs the natural divergence we humans experience in our lives takes over.  In other words life is random and arbitrary and trying to push a set of rules defined by some lay person like Aria on others is such bullshit she should provide wading boots at times.

Are there crazy people on the fringes?  There certainly are and Aria is one of them. She is trying to force her paranoid delusions on others because in her mind she is persecuted because she believes everyone is after her and she is correct and everyone else is wrong.  If only life was that simple for all of us!!



Anne said...

Hi Liz.

Nice post except for all the Aria bashing. Perhaps if you approached her in a slightly less combative mode, you might find that behind that huge "warrior mentality" you would find some validity in some of her points.

In fact it does seem that you so seem to share a fair number of ideas.

But I will leave that to you two to work out. You see from my POV you are both just different in how you reacted or dealt with your GD.

In my case despite being "slightly built" I over compensated by pretending to the "Psuedo alpha male persona". It worked well, until it failed.

Interestingly, I too rememebr telling my Mom that I was a girl just soon as I could speak, and while I did not overtly "act out". I must have been laying down enough clues to be sent to see the proverbial child shrink.

In my case that was at UCLA and the guy I saw was Richard Green who did not get very far with me, because like Aria described, I had "clammed up". He told my Mom that I was probably gay, although at that age 7 or 8, I was not even remotely sexual. He said it would either "go away" or 'go gay" as I got older.

What a crock! And He was a so called expert/specialist. Like you I was terribly conffused and tormnted at this age and what happened in my case was that I tried to "cure" myself and prayed constantly to be "made right".

Thankfully, my male "persona" got me through college which was when I finally arrived at wits end and surrendered to my "Hounds of Heaven" and submitted to the inevitable.

Transition for me was intensly spiritual. I had a good job and managed to hide the effects of the HRT until I completed the term of my one year contract and made the neccessary financial arrangements to carry me through the srs and the subsequent recovery period.

In my case recovery was a long and painful affair. By the time I was able to return home, I had lost nearly everything in terms of worldly goods. I started over literally from scratch.

I was very fortunate to have survived.

Hope this helps


Deena said...

I slogged through your lengthy post and Aria's as well. All of these discussions amuse me and at times sadden me. I thought perhaps you might be amused by a different perspective so I'll chance it.

Psychiatry, psychology and related disciplines approach life from a conceptual framework that confines itself to the study of people based on the premise that nothing exists prior to conception. I do not agree. My perspective is quite simply that we incarnate into flesh in this realm many times.

Before you discard that concept please pause and consider that there are many child prodigy's totally unexplained by science such as a 3 year old who sits down at a piano and plays Mozart without any prior training in music.

Humor me for a moment and explore the implications of reincarnation and specifically how the very idea impacts everything about what and who each person really is. It means quite simply that although most people do not have any ability to recall previous incarnations we bring all that we have ever experienced before into the current incarnation. Yet the beauty of each incarnation is that we are not slave to our previous lives for if we had total recall of them we would be constrained by those very memories.

One thing is obvious. A cycle of many incarnations requires a huge alteration in psychology, psychiatry and related disciplines. I have great respect for Harry Benjamin and I think he would react to what I am offering by saying "well that would certainly explain a lot". Not that he would accept it as true but rather that he would not reject it out of hand.

I gave up long ago talking about the topic of reincarnation to most people when it became apparent that the typical response is "she has flipped her lid". I risk it as a response here only because I sense a certain level of open mindedness. Make of it whatever you will.

Sophie said...

If one were to adopt a more scientific approach, it might be worth moving away from the question of whether one is attracted to male or female but to try and use the more biologically based frame of exogenous and endogenous, at least in terms of initial attraction.

Elizabeth said...


I realize you do not want to lose your new seat at Aria's table but pointing out philosophical differences and errors in both logic and fact is not bashing. Even asking who the hell she is is not bashing. I guess we must take her word she is not just a pre-op man in a dress.

I gather from Aria I have made errors on my blog and am not bright which is rather an interesting thought or opinion but I notice not one of her minions except the newly found have commented over here where the only comments they had were personal insults towards me. Please ask them to point out the error of my ways and you can tell her Royal Highness that I will match my cognitive powers and ability to organize and prove or disprove facts with her any day because my mind is not cluttered by paranoid delusions of both grandeur and persecution.

Transsexualism is absolutely not based in sexual orientation but when puberty is reached it can play a major part because we are sexual beings. Anyone that denies that is a total fool and is just lying.

I gather from your comment on Aria's blog that you were into girls before you started transitioning which puts you in the Aria camp and means you never felt the intensity and discomfort the majority of Type VI felt. At least you had an outlet which those that were attracted to boys did not have.

I do not have a preoccupation with HSTS because I believe it is bullshit. I have a preoccupation with assholes like Aria that claim all feminine boys are pre-homosexual and thus not transsexual. I guess you are in that camp but being born transsexual and feminine was nor is a choice.

I still do not understand all this hatred towards Benjamin by so many because he was and still is the only one who cared about us without prejudice.

Elizabeth said...


If the brain is wired female at birth you cannot have it both ways. If we are girls at birth then no amount of testosterone can turn us into girl hungry boys unless we are sexually oriented to girls. Benjamin found the percentages to be identical in sexual orientation.

Natasha said...

Every single one of us born transsexual is an individual. Any attempt to jam us all under one single definition for transsexual is wrong.

I couldn't agree with you more. Our commonality is a simple one. Beyond that, our journeys are our own.

For the life of me, I cannot understand the agendas of those who claim otherwise. It seems a waste of energy better spent doing something productive.


Anne said...

@ Natasha...I am with you on this one.

@ Deena...very interesting perspective and yes, "it would explain a lot of things"

@ Elizabeth...couple of things.
"I gather from your comment on Aria's blog that you were into girls before you started transitioning which puts you in the Aria camp and means you never felt the intensity and discomfort the majority of Type VI felt"

You "gather" incorrectly. Personally, it is my belief that, given that I had determined to "be the 'man', that I was 'supposed' to be", girls were the approprite sexual target. Despite having been presented with incontrovetable PROOF that I was a girl, and would grow up to b a woman, I doubted my Faith and persisted in pursuing the false hope that I could in deed "cure" myself.

This was obviously a gross error on my part and most certainly does not "put me in Aria's camp".

From what you have expressed to us in your writings, it seems clear that your testosterone levels were below "normal" and that this contributed to your lack of masculinization in puberty. Lucky you. I was not so fortunate.

Nevertheless, the fact that I did not "act out" a a child and instead tried desperately to "do the right thing" does in no way reflect he level or levels of my "intensity".

As to your "preoccupation with HSTS" that was a mis statement on my part for which I apologize to you and which I will remedy at Aria's forthwith.

nobody said...


This appears to be someone's very ignorant comment about you:

"I gather from your comment on Aria's blog that you were into girls before you started transitioning which puts you in the Aria camp and means you never felt the intensity and discomfort the majority of Type VI felt."

So she (or "he" for that matter) has the divine ability to know what others have internally gone through. Amazing!

How about this one:

"At least you had an outlet which those that were attracted to boys did not have."

...And (He) didn't? He had his gay friends. He was able to act out the part of whatever he felt he was by being with another "gay boy", and playing the girly part. Some of us didn't have that "luxury". Some of us fought those feelings inside, as painful as it would get. Some of us were so conscientious of the bodies we were born with that we would push the boys away, even when the "urge" became overwhelming.

These generalizations about people, the bashing, calling names, the acting as if she(or he) knows it all are sure signs of an internal conflict within (his, or her) own being.

Anne, you have never said anything demeaning about Liz (or me), but Liz has no qualms about expressing whatever comes to mind without even the slightest worry that she (or her) might have stepped on someone's heart, or innermost feelings.

Good going Liz, you once again showed face.

Elizabeth said...


Sorry it came across like it did. My apologies also. Just a very rough with my Siberian and I took it out on you which is dead wrong.

My problem with Aria is that HSTS is bullshit. I do believe orientation is a catalyst when puberty kicks in even remotely. I was confused by what you said because I thought you said you were into girls and I apologize.

I have friends that did exactly what you said and that is part of internalizing the discomfort and fighting it. I was in no way trying to imply one is better than the other.

The emotions of the day just got to me a little. My Siberian Mischa has been a good friend for a long time and I am afraid it is his time shortly. I do not handle loss well sometimes.



Elizabeth said...

I am putting this up just in case Nobody also know as June Hingle decides to delete it like she has all the other posts.

nobody said...


This appears to be someone's very ignorant comment about you:

"I gather from your comment on Aria's blog that you were into girls before you started transitioning which puts you in the Aria camp and means you never felt the intensity and discomfort the majority of Type VI felt."

So she (or "he" for that matter) has the divine ability to know what others have internally gone through. Amazing!

How about this one:

"At least you had an outlet which those that were attracted to boys did not have."

...And (He) didn't? He had his gay friends. He was able to act out the part of whatever he felt he was by being with another "gay boy", and playing the girly part. Some of us didn't have that "luxury". Some of us fought those feelings inside, as painful as it would get. Some of us were so conscientious of the bodies we were born with that we would push the boys away, even when the "urge" became overwhelming.

These generalizations about people, the bashing, calling names, the acting as if she(or he) knows it all are sure signs of an internal conflict within (his, or her) own being.

Anne, you have never said anything demeaning about Liz (or me), but Liz has no qualms about expressing whatever comes to mind without even the slightest worry that she (or her) might have stepped on someone's heart, or innermost feelings.

Good going Liz, you once again showed face.
December 1, 2010 2:05 PM

Elizabeth said...

@June Hingle or Nobody

You should never go off your psychotropic medication June. You do lose your limited relationship with reality when you forget your medication.

I have repeated here many times that I am not an expert on anything unless it is in my engineering and Scientific fields. I misread something and I have apologized to Anne like I should have.

I decided that you can no longer delete your posts June so if I get to them they will be a permanent part of the post.

I am very sorry that you are so unhappy you feel it necessary to say such horrible things about me but what I have put on this blog is me sweetie and have lived a decent life with the ups and downs all women face during a lifetime. My opinions are mine and I am wrong sometimes and I will ask for forgiveness.

I am sorry you are so jealous of that so if it makes you feel better to say horrible things like that be my guest. Maybe you will wake up and get some Psychiatric help but then a shrink cannot solve the real problem.

By the way my log shows you spend an awful lot of time over here watching and waiting for posts. I hope it makes you feel better to show yourself off as a hateful homophobic neanderthal.

Hey how come you have not shut my blog down?? Just another irrational threat I guess.

Elizabeth said...


I don't know what effect the low testosterone levels had on the transsexual side of me. It is an interesting question and maybe it is more intersex but at birth I was normal physically.

Your comment did bring June out of hibernation or probably more accurately my comment and your comment which gave the queen of lunacy an opportunity to promote her hatred for me.

Anne said...

I am very sorry about your very dear friend, Misha. I lost mine the same year the Twin Towers went down and I lost my Dad. 2001, was not a very good year.

Too bad about Aria. She seems stuck in the same old angry rant.


Anonymous said...

@Elizabeth, I am so sorry to hear about your companion. I know too well how that can hurt.

There is so much I would like to say about this essay of yours. I will comment I promise.

In many ways I wish there was a way we could connect privately but then I think we are both too private for that! Sad.


Elizabeth said...


I have had Siberian Huskies since my first marriage. They are wonderful with kids and my big boy Mischa is what got me through my second husband's passing. He has his spot on the King sized bed which requires some help getting up now since he is 15 1/2.

He is my baby. I talk to him like he is my kid. Vet says I should put him down but he is not in pain just old. when he cannot eat his share of my strip steak is when it will be time I guess. Big scare yesterday but he is home now and laying next to me in the office.

Where I go he goes. His three cat buddies were worried over him being missing for a night also.

I want to jump all over June but I think she is on the mental edge and I do not want too push here any farther so I will basically grin and bear it for as long as I can.

Elizabeth said...


I am a private person and it did take a lot for me to put the information up that I did but I am very safe.

Mischa the Siberian is my buddy. When his time comes I will get another one. I enjoy our walks although we have both slowed down a lot.

My essay causes some of the psychotic animals to come out of hibernation but I am so sick of all this crap about absolutes and paranoia and I have yet to see any of the loons on the fringes provide any proof for their positions. Proof nowadays is not required.

Well once I make the move to the coast if you see a 65 year old woman on a surfboard in a wetsuit on the Carolina waves it might be me. I miss the ocean and I am moving to it.

Sophie said...

Sorry, didn't mean the comment as contradictory as much as supplementary. I get rather impatient with the frame of adult sexuality as it appertains to the type of gendered bodies attractive to the individual being the only one used to frame behaviour.
Wasn't really concerned with the nonsense of m2f transexuals being classified as gay for being attracted to men as much as trying to get a terminology to cover the rather more opaque area of changes which many report as coming about through hormonal rectification.

Elizabeth said...


How did that work out for you about me and HSTS on Aria's blog. Do not lose your seat over there because of me.

Aria never ever answers a question or provides valid proof of her accusations. She either provides a link to a loony site like hers or just ignores it.

I do appreciate the fact your query did elicit a long response at my expense which has provided me with another post.

One has to love how poking certain animals, oops transsexuals, results in them contradicting most of the posts she has currently made available for reading.

Anonymous said...

Elizabeth, I don’t know if you were ever a visitor to my blog Cassandraspeaks. If you were then you would know that I have written on these issues a fair bit. You would also know that I counselled for a few years in the field of transsexual issues. Based on my experiences at that time I wrote close to 30 essays most of which are now in the archives of TS Si. I daresay you could easily find them if you were so minded. I closed the blog following a “dust up” with Aria and a few of the others. Not solely due to the “dust up” but also because I could no longer find a reason that could justify continuing.

It seems from this current essay that there are some significant parallels in our life stories. Not that I believe in a single narrative or that there is a particular pattern that is always followed. However, my time spent counselling did provide me with some insights and allowed to arrive at opinions that I believe hold true today. “I don’t know what it is but I’ll know it when I see it” Whenever Benjamin’s type VI entered my office I found it quite clear and obvious who and what condition was being presented. I don’t mean what they were wearing or even physical characteristics (although I do think there are often accompanying symptoms and features common to type VI not present in type V) It was something to do with the look in their eyes, desired outcomes self awareness, intangible factors hard to put into words or on paper.

It’s hard to talk about this subject without doing as you have done Elizabeth and that is to introduce factors of our own lives that illustrate points we wish to make. Every time we doo that we run the risk of attracting criticism from those who would say “You are claiming your narrative is the only true narrative” We also run the risk of educating individuals who for unknown reasons wish to don the type VI mantle and we both know they are about. Though why anyone would voluntarily seek to endure the mental anguish I did and you apparently did is beyond me.

Our thinking on the issue of sexuality is virtually identical. At age 13 I developed an intense crush on a boy at school. I was jealous of anyone who talked with him or befriended him. That is not to say I particularly chased boys, It was just that girls were the friends I liked to hang out with and boys made my heart beat faster. Ironically that fact gained me a reputation as “chasing after girls” The racing pulse for boys I kept to myself. I didn’t seek sex with boys and frankly the whole gay sex thing repulsed me. I wanted their babies, I wanted to be kissed I wanted to be their girlfriend.

Part II follows


Anonymous said...

Elizabeth, if we were ever to be able to talk privately I will share more of my own life with you but I am sure you understand I am reluctant to reveal too much here. For one thing I find it difficult to talk about and for another my life is of marginal relevance to here. A few other personal reasons too.

Now where I think Harry Benjamin was a little on the wrong track is in the type IV transsexual.

He was very much aware of the “addictive nature” of transvestism. I have a completed essay on the subject myself as yet unpublished. My own opinion is and this is based on my personal experience as a counsellor, that type IV which he categorised as transsexual is in reality the “end game” manifestation of addictive transvestism and as such should not be classified as “transsexual” The rest of it I think he was right on the money allowing leeway for information available to him at the time it was truly amazing he figured out as much as he did.

Regards your conflict with Aria and questions regarding her time of transition, surgical status life history etc. It’s an interesting question isn’t it? There seems to be an element of “Methinks she doth protesteth too much” Sometimes it is the outcome of an individual transsexual’s life that will indicate exactly what it was that motivated their transition in the first place. It is then that you can perhaps confidently place people accurately into Harry’s types system. Because while an individual’s character, intellect, social status, ability too tolerate their conflict, physical condition life choices etc etc will vary person to person. The outcomes more often than not run true to the individual’s etiology.


Elizabeth said...


You might want to duck. I have my personal profile for Aria but IMHO she is the fraud/fake she complains about.