Wednesday, May 18, 2011

Changing your birth certificate should require GRS

This is another one of my pet peeves.  If one has not had corrective surgery then one should not be able to change a birth certificate to F for female. In a ways this is a difficult position for me to take because I have several friends that have not had surgery and cannot change their birth certificates. One does not believe she should be able to and the other will be madder than a hatter at me for saying what I am about to say but so be it.

If a MTF transsexual has not had GRS then they should not be able to change their birth certificates. If a FTM transsexual has not had a hysterectomy and top surgery they should not be able to change their birth certificate.

This kid in Canada named Lana seems like a good kid but she has no interest in GRS and is only interested in a bigger pair of breasts. She is certainly not a transsexual and I assume identifies as transgender. We are heading down a very slippery slope if we allow non-op transsexuals or transgenders to change their respective birth certificates without GRS. This is what the transgender crowd dribble all over themselves over. If they can do this then they can pretend they are girls with peckers or penis packing women. It is also why we end up with pregnant FTM transsexuals which should not happen. The thought of a pregnant man, as in FTM man, is a wet dream the transgender crowd loves. Blur the lines between genders and then there is no longer just the male and the female but the new "it" category or is that gender variant, gender-queer, or gender fucked up. I am sure someone can explain it using "zir", "hir", and "it" which I prefer.

Allowing someone to change their birth certificates while they are still suffering from male penis envy, they really want a bigger one, is both a sacrilege to genetic women and those that have been corrected. We end up with idiots claiming to be "male-lesbians" and men with peckers claiming they are feminists because they  wear a frock and the worst of all when end up with men in frocks and a functioning penis claiming womanhood.

The last time I thought about this the only analogy I could come up with is these losers want us to allow she-males the right to change a birth certificate and claim they are fully functioning women, that is what F means on a birth certificate by the way, yet still maintain that glorious penis they love and use on women and men. These people are certainly not transsexual and the only term i can think of is she-male which is derogatory to everyone involved unless it is what they desire.

One must ask the question. What use is a penis on a woman? Of course one could also ask the question what good is a vagina on a transvestite so maybe it is coming full circle.

I know what a penis on someone calling themselves a woman with no intention of having GRS is. It is WRONG!! Unless of course medical issues prevent surgery.

I cannot say I am opposed to someone getting an F on their driving license for safety sake and I firmly believe a temporary short term passport with F should be issued again for safety and convenience. But, and it is a big BUT, nobody should get a free F on the birth certificate because one wants it. A set of breasts and a hair piece does not make a woman if you have a penis and want to keep it. That is ludicrous but I am sure I will be shouted down.

Why will I be shouted down? The transgender crowd needs pee packing men classified as women so all the non transsexual transgender crowd can play girl whenever they want to.  Pretty soon they will be issuing two birth certificates in loony countries like Canada and Spain and England. One with an F and another with M plus duplicate driving licenses and passports just so Johnny can be Jane whenever Johnny wants to be. The transgender crowd has to be drooling over this. Businesses have to be sick to their stomachs if they were ever foolish enough to use transgender instead of transsexual.

They won in Canada, England and Spain and I am sure other places. We now live in a world where penis packing men can be now classified as penis packing women and if anyone says he or him they are degrading them. Maybe "it" is more appropriate.  You know the hairy "it" in a box from the Addams Family Television show and movie. Actually a capitalized "IT" is more realistic but then I guess i am out of touch with the political correctness of the Transgender crowd.  After all why should anyone have the right to tell an FTM they should no longer be able to bear children if they are a man and an MTF they should not be packing a penis they can impregnate women with?

Just another example of how Transsexual has been perverted into a cliche and I have a post about that coming soon. I expect Transsexual to be banned as a pejorative in my lifetime. Very sad in my humble opinion.


Anonymous said...

No shouting down from me. I've written much the same thing on my blog more than once.

As for "loony" Canada, birth certificates are issued by each province. I don't know in which province Lana was born. She says she has yet to see which papers will be required in order to make the change. She might be in for a surprise. As far as I know, every province still requires an affidavit of sex-reassignment surgery in order to change the sex marker -- SRS meaning orchiectomy and vaginoplasty, not breast augmentation or FFS. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope not.

Elizabeth said...


Let us hope you are correct.

Dawn1257 said...

This may surprise you, or maybe not. I actually agree with the premise of your post. But, I do take issue with several analogous statements made, that I think put far too much focus on the 'sexual' element of a need for a vagina.

Allowing for gender marker change on a birth certificate without having first had gender surgery(ies)I think creates a more insidious problem. That being one of providing false (my term) proof of your actual physical description. Which may in fact put one at unnecessary risk should they become romantically involved, when leading to courtship and ultimately marriage.

I'm all for same sex marriage. However, that's not what I'm referring to here. It would be seen as dubious and dishonest for your intended (say a straight male)to find out that you aren't really equipped with everything he expected, er, or maybe a bit more than he expected.

I see lawsuits, and on an even more heinous scale, great bodily harm should you be 'caught' in such a position.

This is really an unnecessary action for any governmental body to allow. Especially when a birth certificate is needed for so very few legal matters, which in most cases a driver license suffices just fine.

I also do agree that this is a milestone which the TG movement wants very much to happen.

Teagan said...

The "M" or "F" on your birth certificate is a sex marker. It's not a gender marker. If you don't correct your sex, you don't need a correction on your birth certificate. Changing a sex marker without changing sex? Um, that would be a big NO.

As an aside... lately, following the same logic, I've been using "SRS" instead of "GRS," without realizing it. Same reason I refer to myself as transsexual and not transgender.

Anonymous said...

Absolutly! Totally, No question! No doubt about that AT ALL.!!

Elizabeth said...


I want to thank you for that keen insight. We do change sex. We always used SRS in the old days and I have no idea why it became GRS other than another way to confuse issues.

In a way we have sex dysphoria as much as gender dysphoria. The gender dysphoria is part and parcel of the sex dysphoria. We simply want to be the other sex.

Very excellent comment Teagan.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps I'm just guilty of over=simplification, but my opinion is that this "confusion" goes back to the New Zealand shoulders of John Money and his crackpot "gender conditioning theories". That masculine and feminine are conditioned or are caused by nurture not nature. I don't think Money understodd that there was a difference between sex and gender. I was shocked when during my second meeting with a psychiatrisst he told me I suffered "gender dysphoria" I said nothing because I didn't want to upset him but I recall thinking "this is about which sex I need to be not about my mode of dress or behaviour"

Until the hangover of John Money has been removed from the medical journals and everyone again understands the terms used have been maliciously confused TG doctrines will prevail. It's because few people understand the words sex and gender and the real difference that exists.


Miz Know-It-All said...

Liz! Darn it! You beat me to the punch with Dear Little Lana, TG Extraordinaire! But I must say,you did a bang up job of it! Totally spot on! Sadly it seems Lana wasn't up to receiving constructive criticism about getting a falsified birth certificate and so, in a fit of who knows what, has pulled the blog! Wow! Proof positive that the pen is mightier than the stupid! Think it might possibly work a second time and actually keep dear Lana from following through with this insane act?

Nahhh... I don't think so either! After all s(he) hir? zi? has the backing of an unscrupulous surgeon. One who is obviously in it for the money and nothing else! So my guess is that inside of a month, due to Lana's unmitigated gall and an over arching delusion that what is in her panties makes her a girl. A brand new Oddity of Nature will emerge in the Providence of Ontario! A woman with a penis!

And when it happens, we shall all slide further into the rabbit hole of social nonsense... Tea anyone?

Anonymous said...

This is politics and politics are about conflicts of interests. Having a B.C. is a gateway to other ID and a talisman for the fearful. To give a B.C. with the sex changed to a non-op facilitates other ID and make life easier for them. However, to give non-ops changed birth certificates also dilutes the perceived legitimacy of a B.C. as proof of sex - the conflict of interests. To me the question isn't whether there is a conflict of interests, it's how important is the issue?

You need a birth certificate for a few purposes such as obtaining a passport or to apply for work for some employers. Otherwise it's rarely used. For most purposes your sex is assumed for who you seem to be. If people see a man-in-a-dress who lumbers down the street and talks like a man, a changed B.C. will be a joke. If you seen to be a woman, it's not needed and makes no difference.

- an old aunty

Elizabeth said...


First I have nothing against Lana from Canada and she did make one valid point which I used. If an FTM can still keep the uterus and become a pregnant man and change their birth certificate then something is wrong.

I hope she has not shut her blog down. She did nothing wrong.

Elizabeth said...

@ An old aunty

This absolutely not about politics. The F or M on a birth certificate is a sex marker and not a gender marker. It determines the sex characteristics of the individual. For an MTF not having a vagina means you are not an F as in female.

Political correctness has nothing to do with what sex you are. It is bad enough with the gender identity idiocy where waking up on Tuesday and deciding one should be a girl qualifies one as transsexual if one waits a while.

M and F are sex markers and masculine and feminine are gender markers.

This has actually caused me to rethink certain things and if people want to have more than two genders be my guest. They can have ten or twenty for all I care. There are only two sexes and that is M and F.

Jenny said...

Here in the UK we have the provision for a Gender Recognition Certificate to be issued to an MtF without GRS, but it is no rubber-stamp process and to do so you have to have a damned good reason. I know a couple of women in this situation, they are both precluded from GRS for medical reasons so their personal paths have gone as far as they can. (AFAIK one has an orchidectomy, the other's in the queue for one when her doctors deem it safe.) To deny a transsexual woman in that situation her true legal identity would not be fair, and for that reason and that they set the bar high enough to prevent just anyone exploiting it as a loophole I support it completely. Worry not, our streets are not clogged with TVs sporting female birth certificates!

Anonymous said...

Wow. Totally disagree with you on this. Genitals do not make gender. There are many reasons why people cannot or will not have surgery - cost, medical conditions, lack of opportunity. And if a person understands that their genitilia is secondary to their gender identity, and has otherwise made a full and successful transition why should they be punished for not choosing surgery? Not being able to change your passport and BC can be dangerous for someone who is otherwise their true gender in all other respects. It will cause undue difficulty at border crossings etc. I firmly believe that we are redefining the definition of gender in our society and seeing that, as useful and simple it may have been, penis does not necessarily equal boy = man, and vagina doesn't have to equal girl = woman. If this upsets the whole concept of binary gender, tough. Gender variant people are people too and they deserve to have their realities, ALL of their realities, respected. What's between my legs is no one's business. And having said that, yes I am pursuing GRS and that is for my OWN reasons, not because it changes a marker on my BC or makes people feel more comfortable. But I would never be so elitist and privileged to suggest that someone else who is not willing to take my own path is less worthy of their gender identity.

Elizabeth said...

@transpacific girl,

Birth certificates deal with the sex of the individual and not the gender. When one has SRS it redefines what "sex" one is and the birth certificate can be changed. Because someone dresses one way and not another does not redefine their sex.

Birth certificates would be worthless if one could change them at will just because one felt female one day and male the next.

I do agree with you that genitals do not make gender but they do define your sex. For those that cannot have SRS for medical reasons I would hope a rational solution was available. For those that want to keep their male equipment for other reasons then I would suggest they define themselves correctly as transvestite or cross-dresser because they are surely not true transsexual.

What exactly does gender variant mean? Male one day and female the next? What does that have to do with a birth certificate? Do you want them to have a birth certificate or passport that says "based on my latest whim" or maybe "guess" cause I have no clue?

Anonymous said...

SRS alters genitals and genitals are one definition of what "sex" one is. That's certainly not the only definition.

I am from "loony" Canada and I'm glad I won't need to get any surgeries to get a piece of identification that doesn't out me every time I get carded. Beyond my own selfish reasons there are a couple of reasons I disagree with you.

First, I'm terrified of surgery. All kinds. I'm pretty ambivalent about it. I'm curious, that's for sure, but not enough to actually go through with it. Do I "want to keep my penis?" Not per se, but I don't hate it either. Friends say I will want the surgeries eventually and maybe that's true...but my body is nobody's business, which leads me to my second point.

Two, I don't even understand the need for identification to specify sex. The only reason I can think of is a worry that somebody will try to impersonate the opposite sex! I guess I'm outing myself as a "gender radical" and a bit of an anarchist here but I really don't see the need for the government to have a stake in this. My genitals should not be a matter of public record. So, yeah, I actually do want a birth certificate that says "none of your business" under sex. It's the same answer I give when somebody asks me if I've had "the surgery." None of your business, lol!

What would the problem be with letting people change the sex designation on their birth certificate at will? I guess that might be a problem...for people who want validation that changing the sex designation on their birth certificate actually means something in terms of how society sees you. Especially those who don't feel they pass without being able to whip out an "F" to prove that, no really, I'm a woman.

I can sort of understand the stake that "women born transsexual" have in this, though. It would seem to undermine your claim to a truer, more genuine transsexuality than, well, other trans women. It must be very affirming for you to be able to say "Well, even though to many people we're all freaks and men in dresses or whatever, I can say I actually am really female because the psychiatric establishment says so...all those other people are just playing dress-up."

-Jo from AB

Anonymous said...

@Jo from AB

Actually, the guy I have sex with (not a member of the psychiatric establishment) can vouch for my femaleness. Truer? More genuine? I leave that as an exercise for the reader.

Anonymous said...

I agree with this post, I also live in canada. I am in transition and now live full time as a woman. I have had my drivers license changed so I could have piece of mind. You cannot get your birth certificate changed without (to avoid any controversy) bottom surgery. I think this is correct.

However. As I am transitioning later in life I may never have this surgery. I would still however like to be able to travel without fear and have my passport reflect who I am now. What is the answer to this?

Anonymous said...

Well , I care not for what you think , you have seem to put in enough anger into it , you bore me in the middle .
begin critical towards other countries and their laws, is non of your business , you obviously dont live there and I find no reason for you to judge a state of mind you will not understand .
Now , as the government wont change its policy towards marrying or obtaining a passport , that BC is required fopr the procedure , there must be a middle way solution , to prevent discrimination.
Just because you are closed minded regarding the other possibilities of gender (all of the in between ) and society /LAW is uneducated about it , people who live in between shouldnt suffer from it .
I have a friend (ftm ) who had no breasts as a woman , litterally almost flat , and with hormones and work out seems like a total guys CHest . so he found no need in top surgery (and saved himself about 7000$) regarding bottom surgery , as mush as he was diagnoes as fully transgender , suffer from genitals disphoria and so , A . the surgery offered nowadays is complicated and risky.
B. You end up having a prostate and nothing similar to a real penis , so why not just settle for a dildo ?!!?.
C. IS outragiously expensive , nothing he can dream of doing . Unless he wasnt living in LOONEY US who has zero health support / REAL social suuport.
How can you force him , a straight (in his sexual preferences) transgendered man , not to get married to his beloved , because he had no surgery ?!?! Or has a passport with Female on it when he is anything but one .whether he has female genitals or not , its non of your business , in fact , its non of any ones business , why he has it , why he keeps it , what he does with it , and who sucks it at night , so piss off !
Its either they give people based on case and proof , an oopportunity to change BC , so they can obtain passport/ get married .
Or they change stop asking you to show one (like that would happen ) in order to obtain them .
Or they FINALLY release the SEX X and set people of all DIFFerENT colors , free.

Elizabeth said...


Would you delete and rewrite your comment such that it is not an illiterate series of ramblings strung together by someone of limited intellectual capacity.

Actually you are a dumb shit and just proved it.

Valérie Lovelle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Valérie Lovelle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Elizabeth said...


A woman with a penis is either a MTF transsexual on the road to SRS or a man in a dress. Take your pick.

Isn't it ironic that you just knew you were a girl from 4 years yet you think a woman has a penis. If you want to be female then you need to have SRS.

You are the typical transgender newbie that thinks they have an actual clue how it all works because oh my god I have been on hormones for 9+ weeks now so I know it all.

Well if you think living with a penis as a woman doesn't make you a freak then well I am guessing you are going to be a lesbian and using your penis does not make you a man.

Dream on!

By the way moderation is always on so please do not double post. Next time I will choose which one gets through.

Valérie Lovelle said...

I notice you didn't respond to a single thing in my argument. Instead you just use things in my Google+ profile as ammo in your hate speeches. So it really doesn't matter that my comments are deleted since they were literally wasted on you.

Enjoy living with all your hate.
You stuck-up, trans elitist.

Elizabeth said...


First point is I am not trans nor I am transgender nor am I transsexual. My condition was cured a very long time ago.

Since when is stating a fact you posted hate speech? I disagree with the position a woman can have a penis. Last time I checked men like women with a vagina and lesbians like women with a vagina. Just thought I would point that out.

I actually do not hate anyone but I do pity fools like you that buy the transgender bullshit hook, line and sinker. You know absolutely nothing and I mean NOTHING about what all of this means because you have just now faced up to your condition if in fact your condition is other than being a transvestite.

I answered none of your points because they were pointless and if you bothered to read an of the blog my views are apparent. Now I respect your view but I happen to disagree with your view.

Disagreement is only hate when it opposes the opinions of those that consider themselves elite. I am neither elite nor stuck up although you come across as some pseudo elitist now-it-all when in fact you know not a thing.

Now go learn your narrative and remember how you would have transitioned early like some of us if given the chance which of course is bullshit because you are a coward.

By the way I do not delete comments. If you had any reading comprehension you would have realized I was commenting on the fact an idiot like yourself somehow missed the moderation notice and posted similar comments twice. Besides newbies like you are usually worth a laugh or two.