Monday, December 6, 2010

Am I a bully? Do I perpetrate hate? Should I post what I know?

These are quite serious charges and have been made by June Hingle against me in numerous posts between her comments about me being a "monster", "gay", "he", chasing "gay boys", and other nastiness. She says my blog was begun with  hate and therefore cannot be productive or to promote any kind of good end result and I guess she uses my verbal jousting with Aria as her basis for said comments. Just to ensure her comments are not lost they are at the bottom of this post.

I am quite new to this blogging world and its etiquette but I am an experienced writer in other areas and I have tried to be open and honest about what I write about and have clearly stated these are my opinions. I hate thinking punctuation because I have had an editor to do it for me in the past so please forgive me for that.  OK. I am too damn lazy to punctuate at this stage in my life.

I have learned a lot from the other blogs I have read and I think I am willing to listen and more open to differences. If I was to list my controversial posts I would guess the one on "Mikki the scrabble player" and "why can't we pee together" would upset some people.  If you can think of others please remind me and get over it.

I have only defended myself after being attacked unless of course one considers arguing about personal opinions which is what I do or post my opinions which I also do or respond to what I see as unfair criticism which I also do. I have allowed people to say some very vile things about me in the comments section of posts and have only responded after I have been personally attacked.

Miss Hingle seems to think I promote hate and Aria promotes discussion and that even though aria professes expertise in all things transsexual and denigrates many in her path that I am the one wrong for talking openly about parts of my past.

I will make myself perfectly clear here.

I post about my life because I think I need to at least let people know I have some experience in this existence we have all fought through. There is nothing in here that can hurt me even though Miss Hingle seemed to think using my name Elizabeth Turner would hurt me. She thought she was hurting me exposing that name and then when I explained it was my first husband's last name and I have never used it except for posting, a precaution, she got exceedingly upset that I said that. Miss Hingle is upset that I express my opinion yet in the same comment says it is OK for someone else to express their opinion.

About Aria

I think if you are going to promote the fact that you are this great expert on all things transsexual like Aria you need to at least tell people how many years post you are, how old you are, when you transitioned, and what you felt as a child which in no way outs you.  Aria has called me basically "gay", "a transvestite", a "sock puppet", "gay boy chaser", 'not transsexual", and has promoted herself as the only "true" transsexual type there is and everyone who is transgender is gay or certainly nothing but a transvestite and is paranoid about having her womanhood stolen by gay men. This is a short synopsis and Miss Hingle thinks this is fine I guess.

In fact Miss Hingle described Aria to me in a private email and she was less than flattering and then tried to send me the pictures which I refused because I would never post current pictures of anyone. My discussions with Aria have resulted in a lot of email from many different people providing information about Aria including among the items her real name which I deleted and then informed the person not to put such information out there.  I have received multiple emails that confirm many details about Aria's relationship to this nasty malady called transsexualism and to be kind she is not very forthright about her qualifications and there are very valid reasons for her secretive nature about herself.

I guess having this information might make me a bully but I am in a quandary as to whether I should post it or not. It will not out her because I would never do that and I want to reiterate that point but when you are lying about so much and saying such vile things about others the temptation is there to post it all and let the chips fall where they fall.

When you hurt people and make claims not substantiated in fact about yourself maybe you deserve what you get.  It is actually one of the reasons I post what I post about myself. I went through a lot of the pain a long time ago and I thought it was important to write about some of it and let people understand I am not a fraud as I have been accused of being by Aria, her friends, and her new friend Miss Hingle.

I am willing to bet most of her sycophants do not realize what a disingenuous person Aria is. The information will certainly bruise Aria's ego but it is harmless to her as a person as long as the lies have not become part of the delusion she has built around herself.

My email address is in my profile so let me know what you think I should or just comment here. I have changed my mind multiple times and am leaning towards "not" putting it out there but I have flipped on that three times today already.

They say the truth shall set you free. So I would like a sort of informal vote on this but I do reserve the right not to do it despite what everyone says.

nobody said...
nobody said...

Main article: Cyber-bullying
According to Canadian educator Bill Belsey, it:

...involves the use of information and communication technologies such as e-mail, cell phone and pager text messages, instant messaging, defamatory personal Web sites, blogs, online games and defamatory online personal polling Web sites, to support deliberate, repeated, and hostile behaviour by an individual or group, that is intended to harm others.
—Cyberbullying: An Emerging Threat to the Always On Generation[56]
Bullies will even create blogs to intimidate victims worldwide.[57]"
nobody said...
Look in the mirror Liz.


I have a habit of removing posts that I have made, but I only do it when it becomes obvious that the site I post them to perpetrates hate. I don't remove things because I am embarrassed, but bewildered, and at a loss.

I wish you well...really. You ought to find a better outlet for your feelings, and your story.

Publish a book about your life.

In the context of a blog, a person's writings can be misinterpreted, or the person writing the blog can make statements that contradict their own previous words. There is no upcoming "moral to the story, and the "summation" of the story is only in the overall content of the bloggers intent.

You started your blog by bashing someone who blocked you from "her blog". You can't expect that a blog which was begun with hate to be productive, or to promote any kind of good end result.

I made an attempt at being a friend, but that got lost in your own need to push the Aria issue too far.

That is not what I am about. Aria is human being like anyone else. She also has a right to her opinions. Aria is strong, and will persist being the person she is. She doesn't need to tell everyone about every aspect of her personal life.

We all get to be the summation of everything we've experienced in life. We are all unique. It does not make us bad just because we have our own personal opinions that irk others.

I wish you could address the commonalites, rather than the differences. It wouldn't hurt to suppress some of the hate. ;)


Anne said...

I see no problem pushing Aria to be truthful about herself. She needs to be forthcoming as to those "minor" details such as age, time post-op etc.

On the other hand IMO, "Outing" her would be seriously, "below the belt". Specifically, I would like to know more about how she sees herself rather than listening her "put down"and/or disparage everyone else who might question her.


Anne said...

"Outing" is the personal and emotional equivalent of a themonuclear attack." -Anne

Anonymous said...

This nobody person is just that. Nobody...if you feel strongly enough to comment at least say who you are. It is like the KKK people who need to wear that stupid costume as to not be noticed which to me is pretty cowardly.

Sorry if I sound really ignorant but what do you mean by outing someone? You mean like run around screaming that hey are trans when they are stealth or something?

Anonymous said...

Oh and one more thing.

I think people who have a problem with you are really just jealous at how successful your transition was for the time you did it. You are obviously gorgeous and sometimes girls just can't handle that. On top of are smart which means that you my dear are a triple threat. LOL. Don't let these people put you in a corner. Speak your mind and f#*k who has a problem with it. As long as you are not stalking someone and making them crazy then you have nothing to worry about.

Caroline said...

"I post about my life because I think I need to at least let people know I have some experience in this existence we have all fought through."

I don't want this to sound bad but your historical perspective seemed like an important thing to be brought out into the light of day. Many are probably disappointed that you have been sidelined into an online squabble. Let them say what they want on their blogs and moderate comments on your own. Once you have the story out there the discussions should begin.

Life is too short... Well mine is!


Elizabeth said...


I could never "out" someone. It is beneath contempt.

Elizabeth said...

@Elizabeth from Liz

Hey sweetie good luck in Florida. I will try and email you before you go.



Anonymous said...

@ Elizabeth, it is such a temptation isn't it? When you have the weapons in your arsenal to take an antagonist out to just release your Armageddon and be done with it. Then if your perceived "enemy" has hurt you, your pride, ego, intergrity whatever the temptation to lash out, it's like that chocolate that you dare not eat because you are on that diet. It would be so sweet!

This comes down to your conscience and what you think the effect would be on your target. The information I suspect you have is likely the same information I have yet with all the things Aria has said about me both privately to others and publicly on blogs all untrue I have never responded and actually don't intend too. Aria will eventually be seen for what she really is and it will be by her own hand or someone else. Not me.

That blog and those who gather around it are all she has. Probably it is all she will ever have. I am a tough cookie but I am not cruel. There is a line that should not be crossed. There are better ways to deal with people like Aria than to compromise your integrity.


Elizabeth said...


She already has her friends commenting about me. I am sure it will get ugly.

I am still unsure whether I should post it. I have confirmation it is accurate but I really was leaning towards not posting it but that will change if she and her pals come after me.

I am not immune to being hurt and striking back and even today they question my history in a nice back handed way yet Aria is not to be questioned.

After a while it gets to be a little too much and I do want to let them see what a fraud she is.



Natasha said...

While I understand your feelings about wanting to discredit Aria to a certain extent, especially given the nastiness of her attacks against you, I think it rather a shame that you have been drawn into all of this. I tend to think her blog is somewhat farcical given its over the top proclamations and I understand why you have gone after her in some respect, but I think that you have a lot to say that has nothing to do with this person and you have, in a fairly short time blogging, been drawn into a blog conflict (and, to be fair, participated). But I do not get the sense you wish to continue.

I would love to see you get back to what you want to write and let this whole thing die. I think if you post information about this person, you'll be opening yourself up to more abuse and attacks by zealots who feel as if they need to defend her position. It just serves no good end except for those who thrive on conflict.

Ultimately, do what you feel is right for your sanity in this affair.



Anonymous said...

Grammar, punctuation, and spelling all serve to help communication be clearer. Just sayin'. At least you use periods and capitalization. :)

Your blog is you own, but I echo the sentiments of those who prefer your insights on the transition process to a battle with Ariablue -- or with June. I rarely read Ariablue's blog -- mostly when you or Anne cite something from it. When I do read it, I find the same thing every time -- a lot I agree with, but some truly off-the-wall stuff as well that undermines the credibility of the good stuff. The off-the-wall conspiracy stuff kind of spoils it for me. I bet that's how it is for a lot of would-be readers outside the circle that seems to enjoy what she writes.

I'm sorry you are being attacked personally, and I don't blame you for counterattacks. I have never seen you as a bully. On the contrary -- I know where the bullying occurs, and I know what defence from bullying looks like.

Deena said...

Whenever I press someone's self destruct button the mess it makes is hardly worth the momentary excitement of watching the explosion. Perhaps you can explain to me why any woman would be the least bit interested in transsexual issues except to feel sorry for those embroiled in them.

Anne said...

I think that at least in my case, my interest is in making people aware that they are involved in LIFE CHANGING descisions.

I think that it is incumbant on those of us that have passed through the fire to point this out, and to at least try to shine the light of reason on some of the falsehoods being passed off "truth".

Kathryn Martin said...

I have had my encounter with Aria and others. What is considered discourse in some quarters is something I have never seen before in my life. For some reason people seem to believe that making a below the belt personal attack somehow elevates their argument to truth status.

I have come to believe that the real reason for the rhetoric is to lure you away from your real purpose. So my view, don't do it. You will hurt yourself more in the end than her.

Anonymous said...

A friend pointed me to your blog. I'm a little younger, but Harry Benjamin helped me on my way to transition and SRS long ago.

When the internet was young and I was more naive, I battled with self-serving kooks and loonies pontificating as experts on the subject. You can't hold rational arguments with them. Particularly annoying were the ones who asserted what the old days were like, having never experienced them, and denying the truth of those who did. Despite the fact that my early life narrative doesn't exactly match the myth, it's close enough for the ignorant and dogmatic know-it-all's to deny the realities of my life. Made me hog-biting mad, but there's nothing for it.

There's no percentage arguing with a rock. My advice is to speak from the heart to those with open minds and let them sort out the truth. Ignore the nuts and cranks. Life's to sweet to waste your happiness capital.

- old timer

Elizabeth said...

@Anonymous or old timer

Were you in Frisco or New York?

There is no one narrative and that is the key. We are all different and based on circumstance even those of us that are somewhat similar can take different paths based on end up with different paths and a different narrative.

My problem is I know with irrefutable evidence that a certain person is not only what they say they are but are closer to the people they scream and rail about.

I emailed her the evidence to give her a chance to refute it but I did not expect her to and more evidence has come forth that is quite disturbing but even with that evidence she is probably not worth my efforts to expose her false front because she is the opposite of what she implies.

At least I know I am not a fraud.

Anonymous said...

Of course we are all different. The context and circumstances of our lives differ. We who knew, at an early age, we were girls, and endured the consequences of being unable to conceal it, are accused of adopting a false narrative. Some with a vested interest in the AG/HSTS model dismiss our experience as false because it conflicts with their beloved paradigm. Others, who did not have a similar childhood experience, dismiss it as if their denial somehow boosts their own validation. It's not a zero sum game.

Whether dogma or insecurity is the root of their denial, contending with someone who has a vested interest re-writing our lives is like arguing with a stone. It's the waste of a sliver of my life, but that doesn't mean I don't resent it.

- old timer

Anonymous said...

Amen to that anonymous.