That is from Wikipedia by the way. I am puzzled by the use of the term "transfeminism". Isn't feminism good enough for the transgender crowd? The primary claim among transfeminists is that "biology" is not destiny which has been a basic tenet of feminism. the belief is that women should not be limited because they were born female. The transfeminist moment believes that because one is born male it does not mean one is not a female/woman which I believe is true.
The problem I see is simple. Why are the trans activists trying to force the term transfeminist to be accepted by feminists. I would normally say since one has had SRS then it is a mute point since you are a female or woman and feminist ideals would seem to work fine. It kind of goes along with my belief that all I needed in life was to be accepted as a woman and I would take my chances being what I always believed I was. Give me the rights women have and I was happy.
There is a radical wing of the feminist word that is radical and is headed by Bug Brennan and her ilk. If she had her way those of us born transsexual will never be women. The majority of feminists do not believe that. There is a radical wing in the transgender lesbians world that believe because they claim they are female and women, even with a penis, that being denied access to other lesbian feminists as equals is transphobic. In other words denying a trans lesbian with a penis sex with a lesbian feminist is transphobic. I am not seeing the transgender lesbian feminist logic behind that one because last time I checked I actually thought one had to have female sex characteristics to be a lesbian. Wow, I bet that has a little bit to do with the radfem lesbian dislike of the transgender crowd. Seems to me that after SRS the biology is as close as we can get and should be good enough.
The weird thing is if you have had SRS how the heck are any of the radfem lesbians going to know you are not female unless you tell them you were born male or wear your "Trans Forever" T-shirt to the party. One does have to love that transgender need to be special. You know what I mean. The need for special laws and special rights so the men can transition at work and keep that nice high paying job they got from some hard working woman because they were men and had a family to take care of. I heard that one many times over my 40+ years in business. Men needed to be protected from those vicious women in ladies spaces that at 5-6 and 130 pounds will physically assault the 6-2 185 man in a dress or lord forbid ask them what they are doing in women's spaces. We women need to know our place and our place is to support our man when he dresses up to live out his fantasy. How dare us protest and destroy some man's fantasy.
Then of course immediately after they have been wearing a dress off and on for a while they are feminists and understand everything we women have gone through in life. They have been paid less than 70 cents on the dollar for the same work; they have been denied promotions because no woman could do that job; they have been denied access to the all boys business club; they have been denied access to the men's private country club unless married to a member and then they are restricted. Oh wait a second they would have actually had to have worked as a woman for that to happen. Scratch that cause only we women face that.
Now the transgender crowd has a new mantra and it is decidedly misogynistic. Their new cry is there can be no feminism without transfeminism which means they are linking transfeminism and feminism just like they have under the covers linked transsexual and transgender. The primary aim is to use feminism to protect men as they play girl or actually play girl full time. They want to equate themselves with the females that are the core of feminism whether they have had SRS or not. In essence they are demanding that females that are feminists accept men in dresses as equals to them as females and women.
The primary pushers of this concept is the lesbian faction of the transgender crowd some of whom have had SRS but many who have not. It is simply another example of men telling women what our place is in the world and we are to accept it whether we like it or not. It is the same misogynistic view that they had when they were men and it is no different now that they are surgically corrected or still packing.
Feminism is a set of core beliefs and if the transfeminist movement cannot live withing those core beliefs then they should just go back to being what they really are which is men. There is nothing that is more misogynistic that telling women they have to redefine feminism and accept the tenets of the transfeminist or there is no feminism. In other words if the boys cannot play girl and have feminism redefine itself to fit them in, then feminism cannot exist. How manly of them.
The problem I see is simple. Why are the trans activists trying to force the term transfeminist to be accepted by feminists. I would normally say since one has had SRS then it is a mute point since you are a female or woman and feminist ideals would seem to work fine. It kind of goes along with my belief that all I needed in life was to be accepted as a woman and I would take my chances being what I always believed I was. Give me the rights women have and I was happy.
There is a radical wing of the feminist word that is radical and is headed by Bug Brennan and her ilk. If she had her way those of us born transsexual will never be women. The majority of feminists do not believe that. There is a radical wing in the transgender lesbians world that believe because they claim they are female and women, even with a penis, that being denied access to other lesbian feminists as equals is transphobic. In other words denying a trans lesbian with a penis sex with a lesbian feminist is transphobic. I am not seeing the transgender lesbian feminist logic behind that one because last time I checked I actually thought one had to have female sex characteristics to be a lesbian. Wow, I bet that has a little bit to do with the radfem lesbian dislike of the transgender crowd. Seems to me that after SRS the biology is as close as we can get and should be good enough.
The weird thing is if you have had SRS how the heck are any of the radfem lesbians going to know you are not female unless you tell them you were born male or wear your "Trans Forever" T-shirt to the party. One does have to love that transgender need to be special. You know what I mean. The need for special laws and special rights so the men can transition at work and keep that nice high paying job they got from some hard working woman because they were men and had a family to take care of. I heard that one many times over my 40+ years in business. Men needed to be protected from those vicious women in ladies spaces that at 5-6 and 130 pounds will physically assault the 6-2 185 man in a dress or lord forbid ask them what they are doing in women's spaces. We women need to know our place and our place is to support our man when he dresses up to live out his fantasy. How dare us protest and destroy some man's fantasy.
Then of course immediately after they have been wearing a dress off and on for a while they are feminists and understand everything we women have gone through in life. They have been paid less than 70 cents on the dollar for the same work; they have been denied promotions because no woman could do that job; they have been denied access to the all boys business club; they have been denied access to the men's private country club unless married to a member and then they are restricted. Oh wait a second they would have actually had to have worked as a woman for that to happen. Scratch that cause only we women face that.
Now the transgender crowd has a new mantra and it is decidedly misogynistic. Their new cry is there can be no feminism without transfeminism which means they are linking transfeminism and feminism just like they have under the covers linked transsexual and transgender. The primary aim is to use feminism to protect men as they play girl or actually play girl full time. They want to equate themselves with the females that are the core of feminism whether they have had SRS or not. In essence they are demanding that females that are feminists accept men in dresses as equals to them as females and women.
The primary pushers of this concept is the lesbian faction of the transgender crowd some of whom have had SRS but many who have not. It is simply another example of men telling women what our place is in the world and we are to accept it whether we like it or not. It is the same misogynistic view that they had when they were men and it is no different now that they are surgically corrected or still packing.
Feminism is a set of core beliefs and if the transfeminist movement cannot live withing those core beliefs then they should just go back to being what they really are which is men. There is nothing that is more misogynistic that telling women they have to redefine feminism and accept the tenets of the transfeminist or there is no feminism. In other words if the boys cannot play girl and have feminism redefine itself to fit them in, then feminism cannot exist. How manly of them.
30 comments:
True.
- an old aunty
The transfeminist moment believes that because one is born male it does not mean one is not a female/woman which I believe is true. - Liz
Here is sadly where I see a BIG issue with all the discussion that goes on in these blogs with regards to separating the transsexual medical condition and the women born with it from the "trans" or transgender movement.
Sadly, often without even realizing it, post op women happen to be part of the problem due to how and what they write and the context in which it can be/is taken.
WOMAN... FEMALE... they are NOT the same thing.
an example:
I would normally say since one has had SRS then it is a mute point since you are a female or woman-Liz
Having a vagina does NOT make one a woman (although a woman DOES most certainly NEED to have a vagina).
it is the assumption that woman and female are the same thing, that TG and Transfeminists base their arguments on, and NOT in the context a post-TS uses (that they are women BECAUSE they are the female sex) the context that TG's use is the opposite, IE that because they are women (or so they would have us believe), they must thusly be FEMALE.
until well intentioned post ops cease to use SRS as a basis for validity, until they THEMSELVES cease to place the emphasis on SRS, whether that is the truth of the issue/matter or not, progress cannot be made.
we do ourselves (and worse still, pre-ops) more damage by conflating the terms and more often than not, without even realizing it.
I dunno about you, but I'm a woman because of what is in my head (and yes, I still do need SRS/a vagina, that is PART of what is in my head)
Sadly, we're holding the door open for the bastards!!
I take a very unpopular view toward the term transfeminism.
To put it bluntly it's a way for male bodied Tee-Gees to invade more women only spaces and to co opt the feminist movement. Call it invasion of the Penis People because that is what it is.
NYF
I'm just going to say "Thank You" to newtransitioner and see who says what about this topic.
Let the games begin! lol
Stephanie
I too must agree with the 'new transitioner'. However, I must also add the caveat that simply 'believing' or 'desiring' that one is female does not make one so. One still must make those vitally important and relevant changes.
If one were to accept that premise, that 'I' am 'female' because 'I' say so, then any man/male, can make that claim without ANY substantiation relative to ANY FACTS.
This is now apparently the case in Argentina. It willbeinteresting to watch just exactly how that works out over time. In my estimation, nothing will change. "Transvesti", as they are called there, will continue to be subject to the same public censure that they have always been.
Their new ID will only provide another source of ridicule and derision.
Simply getting SRS does not a woman make, any more than just saying so. The truth really is quite simple. Either you ARE a woman, or...you are not.
C.I.
I want no thanks from the likes of you stephanie, so please save it.
Did you read my comment carefully?
I'm confident the women here would have and unlike you, would have realised my purpose was to prevent us helping NON-ops like yourself by (without realizing it) perpetuating the TG cycle due to confalting terms incorrectly ourselves.
The terms WOMAN (the social sex, or as you would have us believe INCORRECTLY "gender") and FEMALE are NOT and DO NOT discribe the same thing.
HOWEVER, that does NOT mean I think you or your buddies qualify as IETHER of them.
Maybe you should take a read of my blog if you think I'm so great.
Have a great day!
The reality is most people treat the recognition of sex and gender as they do the recognition of art: "I know it when I see it." Perception is reality until someone says or does something to poke a hole it it. Everything else is commentary.
- an old aunty
however steph,
if you DO want to thank me, I'll take it that by doing so, you're in agreement with what I've said and that you too believe/understand that WOMAN and FEMALE are a different thing, and as such, even if you and your TG buddies could be considered WOMEN, you wouldn't want or need the rights females need or access to female spaces etc.
There you have it folks!
Problem solved, they've seen the light!!!
On another note: I see no problem with "trans-feminisim". it is a bit of a word play, and the context in which it is used or taken is incorrect, but in essence the term itself I feel is accurate.
"trans": (accross from/opposite to) -Feminisim
so in essense it's just another word for Masculism(Masclinism).
IE Men's rights.
Which in my small mind would kinda makes the term itself a bit of an oxymoron
however, maybe we should all jump on board if these men want equal rights for men and women... maybe they're about to address equal pay and the glass ceiling.
Who knows right?... we can all dream.
I do not understand how someone can diagnose me without knowing me. I've had extensive therapy in my 58 yrs, each and every therapist saying I was transsexual. All of my therapists we're real people with faces, bodies, and names. For 'anonymous', faceless, nameless people to know who I am, and what I am, they must have extra powers that most people don't possess.
"Until well intentioned post ops cease to use SRS as a basis for validity ......, progress cannot be made." ....agree
"We do ourselves, and worse still, pre-ops more damage by conflicting the terms, and more often than not, without realizing it." .....agree
And... "I dunno about you, but I'm a woman because of what is in my head" (and yes, I still do need SRS/ a vagina, that is PART of what is in my head) .......agree
Having SRS at this late stage in my life would be stupid to do. Why? Because I wouldn't use it. My days of sex are over, have been for 20 yrs. So why? Just so I can stand in front of the mirror and look at myself. Nope, I'll just not look just like I have been doing all these yrs.
As you said. I am a woman because my female brain says so. A female brain that loves the estrogen it's been on for almost 7 yrs. The thoughts of transsexualism are still there 24 hours a day, it's just not as intense, I can live with it. The goal, if you need one, is living, not SRS.
Stephanie
Stephanie said;
"Having SRS at this late stage in my life would be stupid to do. Why? Because I wouldn't use it. My days of sex are over, have been for 20 yrs. So why? Just so I can stand in front of the mirror and look at myself. Nope, I'll just not look just like I have been doing all these yrs."
So what you are saying is because you have no interest in sex a vagina is not useful to you?
Rather that is what you mean or not the fact you say "I need a vagina but..."
Tells me you ether are not being with us or yourself. Unless you beli8eve that women who have lost interest in sex should have their vaginas sewn shut, and I don't think that is what you mean.
No matter Stephanie you talk in Tee-Gee code words when you say you need a vagina and have some phony excuse for not having SRS.
Sandeen uses the same kind of excuse for not having SRS, maybe you should move to California and just have your legal sex pencil whipped to female.
Why the fuck not it's all the rage among the Tee-Gees.
NYF
Ok Steph, No problems.
By all means take what I've written intentionally out of it's OBVIOUS context, tell yourself whatever you need to tell yourself so you can sleep soundly at night.
In the end, all that matters is that I know, EVERYONE else knows, and DEEP DOWN in your heart YOU know.
"Until well intentioned post ops cease to use SRS as a basis for validity ......, progress cannot be made."
Why in the world should post op's need to make progress with the Trangender anyway?
Whats in it for us... NOTHING.
I have been post-op for over 25 years, long before the transgender came along with the onset of the genderless internet. That is where most of the transgender came from you know!
Up till you found out you could spread your fantasy lives outside your front door, through the chat rooms on the internet, most of you would still be beating off on a saturday afternoon while the wife was at out shopping.
That's also where you got all your information and ideas from, your CD friends who told you about how you could just tell your doctor you were transsexual, get on the mones, and head off to the clubs, where you found out how easy it was to steal the transsexual narrative and apply it to yourselves.
Transsexuals have been going along with it for way too long. When the transgender got political is when the so called seperatist's started speaking out. By then it was a bit too late. You had organized and marginalized us, stolen our narrative, taken it for yourselves and promoted the transgender agenda to the public.
Make progress ? I for one have no inclination to make progress with any of you. You are the ones who need to quit dragging us through the grimy mud that is the transgender way of life, where men in dresses, on hormones, and packing a penis, think that they being in the majority, should expect any of us to make progress with them...
isn't gonna happen ...
"I do not understand how someone can diagnose me without knowing me" ~Steph
LOL...It's easy! Your actions speak louder than words.
C.I.
Anon, please read my comment again, carefully, including the part where I said:
Here is sadly where I see a BIG issue with all the discussion that goes on in these blogs with regards to separating the transsexual medical condition and the women born with it from the "trans" or transgender movement.
If you are who I suspect you are, believe me, we are on the same team and share a common goal.
My point was simply that we need to be CLEAR with the words we use, their meaning and how we convey our point.
Trust me, I place just as much emphasis on SRS as you do, but if progress is to be made with regards to separating TSism as a medical condition then people need to be MADE to PROVE that they female in the BRAIN before they are afforded womanhood.
I dunno. I still think, either you is or you ain't. And IF you is, you DO wha needs doing, NO MATTER WHAT!
C.I.
@Newtransitioner,
What is the common goal here?
How do you go about "proving" that someone is male/female in the BRAIN? Where is science currently on this proving ground?
AND NOW THE UGLY QUESTION; If science can prove brain sex (or gender?) and abort the fetus a priori would you be for infanticide?
@BlackSwan
Abort a fetus? What a bullshit argument. What a bullshit question. Kind of makes sense when one realizes it is from BS the queen of bullshit.
Are you in favor of abortion or are you pro-life. Only if you are pro-life is abortion infanticide. You better watch out your fellow Transgender Borg buddies will disown you for being pro-life.
Before you ask I am opposed to abortion but do not think I personally have the right to tell someone they can not have one. It is a moral and personal decision theyb have the right to make.
@Elizabeth,
Oiy she is back at it again; the queen of quixotic notions and delusions of self-importance and intellectual vanity. Time to raise the bar on your thinking.
The argument at issue a priori: Whether the access to abortion (in some countries infanticide) IS vitiated when the reason at issue is to eliminate or murder a class of person. Such a test to determine sex/gender of the brain contains within it this slippery slope argument.
Wake up and remind your doctor to remove the urushiol from you hemroid medication. My oh my… are we crabby today?
The fact that you are here BS, would typically be an indication to me to stop coming back, but I will answer your question simply with:
Any true TS, any WOMAN, knows exactly how to PROVE they are female in the brain.
The last time TS's told people how, The TG movement was born and consumed them and their/our/my medical condition, made life hell for them/us, so I'm sorry but men will have to work out HOW to prove it for themselves this time (and I never said anything about scientifically).
I CAN however, offer a simple solution to just about EVERYONE's (That means TS's and those who are TG thinking inclined like yourself) stated problems if you'd like? (for what good it would do, because it will never happen).
@BlackSwan
I have no delusions of self importance BS. That would be you dipshit. I am not the one trying to get themselves in the Guinness Book of records based on an assumption based upon lies. I am not the one that is a dominatrix. I am not the one that shames women every day they go to work like you do. You are the delusional one.
I am not the one with intellectual vanity. I do not use words like "quixotic" or "vitiated" in a failed attempt to prove myself some kind of intellectual elite. Truth be told you are just an intellectual lightweight that cannot make a living except in the manner you do.
The argument at issue is not your argument it is transfeminism. It is typical of your immature mental state that rather than argue the point of a post you take it somewhere else in an attempt to somehow make a point about me that is untrue.
Let me think about what you have called me. A liar, racist, transphobic, homophobic, and other sundry nastiness because of your inability to understand the simplest of concepts.
The concept is this is a blog where I post my opinions. I believe everyone has a right to their opinions including Autumn Sandeen. Because my opinion differs from your opinion does not somehow make me any of the nasty things you have called me. I have a right to my opinions as do you but unfortunately in your case you simply regurgitate the Transgender bullshit which is actually your right because it is your opinion and your set of core beliefs.
Unfortunately for you this is my blog and I happen to think you are a liability so for consistently trying to move the post point to something you favor your comments will now be scrutinized and banned if your comment is off topic in any way shape or form.
Now find some mud and go to work.
I confess I am trying to figure how it is that a post about the validity of "transfeminism" can be morphed into a discussion about abortion and whether a mother might choose to abort a transsexual child if it could be detected.
If it were possible that transsexualism could be medically diagnosed and detected then the whole transgender conflict and conflation would surely be made non existent. Transgenders would be what they truly are I E transvestites who don't know any better.
Cassandraapeaks
Like the post, but think the comments are built, except Cassandra's
"built???
Oh Please Explain Kathryn.
I can't wait to hear this.
NYF
The truth is that the TG trolls continue to dominate, derail and ultimately control the narrative by interjecting the same old red herrings.
What annoys me is how readily this is acquiesed to.
What is needed is more emphasis, and focus, on a discussion, "separating the transsexual medical condition and the women born with it from the "trans" or transgender movement."
@Elizabeth,
My apologies for not responding sooner, I have to fly out of the country again, this time for six months and will have minimal contact with the internet, working on a TV series as a season regular, but wanted to get back to you has promised.
So, before we begin, after a small tangent with newtransitioner, you seem to have difficulty accepting other peoples definition of self, you invalidate others, or a group wanting to define itself, yet feel you have the obtuse (hubris) authority to define others, promoting the stigma apparently, yet take umbrage with anything that doesn't define contiguous to your wishes when in actuality there are obvious dovetails, your recalcitrant, and none of it fits together in pieces so convenient for you to separate in a priori categories of legitimate and not so. You don't get to participate in these political debates unless you have the courage to muster your convictions--for whatever reason you've already lost the battle because you lack the basic courage to remain accountable for what you say. What are you placing on the line here is a mere complaint that has no power. No authority and no cause of action if you persist to sit back on you laurels in complacent obscurity; lame duck. Quack!
YOU DO NOT GET TO ENGAGE IN GENDER POLITICS FROM AN ANONYMOUS POSITION, THEN COMPLAIN WHERE THINGS ARE GOING AND EXPECT TO BE TREATED SERIOUSLY. The doctrine of laches applies here.
Liability you say? Fear? You and Casandra Speaks must be colaborating. You notice why she is conspicously polite with me. I know who she is, where she lives, and who her husband is. I used to be an investigator (quasi government) in my other life and can find just about anyone. She doesn't throw bombs at me such as you without her ego giving pause to consequenses. She can if she wishes, but she met me, and that's enough for familier civility. Clue in, I know who you are, where you live, or anyone else who so much as visits this blog--if I need to. I'm a bit higher on the food chain than you think dear. Not to worry I'm not entertaining the idea outing anyone. Do know that your blog subjects you to being a public figure, and you are the holder of that privilege until your ego devulges such information deemed confidential, thus anything that is meant to be secret by operation of law may be breached because of your words here.
So onto the topic; questions:
1. Does mainstreat feminism concern itself with the medical needs and sexual health of TG/TS folks? Nope. Thus a movement is formed.
2. Does maintream feminism concern itself with the rights of TG/TS folks? Nope. Thus such a movement is formed.
3. Does mainstream feminism include TG/TS people in their discussions of women's rights? Nope. Thus a such a movement is necassary.
BlackSwan
@BlackSwan
I know who CassandraSpeaks is but I do not consort with her. You would be well advised not to threaten me.
First and foremost these are just my opinions and I like most people in the world of the blogs have little to no influence on the real world. These are just opinions. It is how I vent.
Let me get this right. I have no right to comment on things because I am anonymous yet you can comment as BlackSwan and that is okay. What a complete and total douche-bag you are plus being a total hypocrite.
Are you not the same celebrity that has denied she was born transsexual when questioned? Does the production company know you are transsexual for you supposed television series? Stupid question actually because they would have to be deaf, dumb and blind to think otherwise but the the sissy boys you like probably overlook that part.
Why would you say something like that about some person like CassandrSpeaks? What kind of lowlife pathetic scumbag jerk are you. Consequences for her. You are the one that started slinging the arrows here BS and I just do not put up with them.
You do not know who I am and even if you did it has no consequences for me because I am retired and a widow so who is left to be hurt but me. Bring it on you worthless piece of garbage.
I actually dare you to give my name if you have it. I promise you I will post the comment if you get it right but we both know it is all bluster. You have far more to lose than I do so take your bravado and run off because we both know nobody is giving someone like you a regular part in anything because you have no talent unless you count that pathetic 2007 documentary you were a total loser in.
I love you little blurb you put in a certain magazine where you called yourself a "supermodel". Wow you are also a runway coach. You are as delusional as the crossdressers and transvestites you support.
If you ever threaten me again I will personally bury you and destroy that pathetic little career you think you have. Now, how is that?
Hi black swan,
I would just like to say that I am a REALLY simple minded country girl (which I'm sure is part of what you were pointing out), and all those big impressive words you used, confused the living shit out of me.
I did understand the part where you TRIED to tell me what I can and can't do from a position of anonymity, however I fail to see how you could possibly gauge what I can and can't do, because from where I stand, what I can and can't do would be entirely dependant on who and how many people might be prepared to listen to what I have to say or write from said position; agree with my perspective, and take action or adapt their way of life in some way, to suit it.
I think you also have me wrong on another front. I have NO problem what-so-ever accepting how people self-define, however, that does NOT mean I personally always agree with how they would define themselves.
That is called free will, every human experiences it and that is not something that can or will EVER be changed.
I do become concerned when how people choose to self-define (and the behaviour exibit), has a negative effect on my life or the lives of others (regardless of the what the issue at hand might be). And when they are inconsiderate and disrespectful of me and others by doing so, they lose any right they MAY once have had to MY respect and consideration.
Fair is fair.
Finally, I don't know if you might be implying that I am cassandraspeaks? (Sadly, I'm not lying about the simple country girl thing)
If so, no, I'm not. I have never met her, nor anyone else you claim you know here. I do have respect for many of the things she's written, as they helped me on a personal level in a time when I was desperately in need of perspective , however, there are others I also respect for the very same reason
you can track me down and "out" me all you like, I am not "stealth" (whatever that means) in whatever could be considered my personal life, and so the damage that would do at this point, is miniscule.
Finally, thank you very much for reminding me of my place.
Best wishes to you
Hay Black Swan, You have a lot of nerve telling those of us who choose to post under handle when you do it yourself.
Put your money where your mouth is and post your real name.
You give out enough clues as if you want to be found out. So just do it, or would you rather remain the hypocrite you are?
Get a life you transvestic freak
NYF
Please do it Elizabeth.
NYF
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