The simple truth of the matter is that what is between your legs DOES determine a lot about your station in the world of sexual partners. I found it rather amusing watching the phony reactions of both Cox and Carrera when asked that HORRIBLE question referencing whether they had underwent surgery. Isn't it odd that tow self described activists that went on a television show with Katie Couric and somehow were offended by such a question which is very relevant for anyone that was born transsexual.
The claim that what is down there does not define whether I am a woman or not is total bullshit. Only those that want to retain their penis would ever make such a claim and the reason they keep their 7 inch neoclit is because they enjoy using it in the same way men enjoy using it so how do they come up with the bullshit it doesn't matter? If course it matters and it really matters to those of us that simply wanted to be as we should have been born. Kind of funny how they only want the boobs and the dresses and the heels and the makeup and the wigs but not the vagina. I find that odd but then they need that dick for its intended purpose which is fucking women so they decide to add the additional insult of claiming their penis still allows them to be the same as a woman even if they enjoy its functional purpose. And there you have the entire gist of the Transgender movement of obfuscation.
Katie Couric made the same mistake most Americans make and it is a simple one but a mistake deliberately fostered by the transgender activists. Katie Couric assumed she was talking with two transsexuals who were transgender which is the same as transsexual and everyone knows transsexuals want SRS. So here you have two activists pretending to represent transsexuals, falsely by their actions, who are upset or disturbed by a question involving SRS, aka surgery, when they damn well should have known it would come up.
This is just another ploy in the Transgender Activists agenda to make those born transsexual subservient to the crossdressers and transvestites that control the movement. A penis is important to them because it is their source of pleasure. It is not nor was it ever important to those born transsexual because it is a symbol of the mistake made upon our birth.
Carmen Carrera was a self described gay man before deciding that she was somehow transgender which I find odd in the world she worked in since transsexualism is well understood in that world. There has been a petition going around amongst the transgender crowd to have Victoria Secret use her as a model in their television show. I guess that would be a teaching moment, somehow, if Carrera has not had SRS.
A lot, if not all, of this false outrage goes directly back to the Transgender Activists attempt to redefine what a female is so men can somehow weasel their way into the private areas we women want. Why would an activist not want to discuss this even if they had not had SRS? They had a potential teaching moment but there was a very insidious reason they would not talk about it. Rather than simply say SRS is what some want but may not be relevant for everyone which is a valid point when discussing the transgender umbrella they took the position of dismissing it is not relevant when they both know it is very relevant to many bit in typical transgender disregard for those born transsexual they lumped everyone together. How freaking convenient.
It turns out the question and the subject matter was actually discussed before the show and Carrera was going to answer it but Laverne Cox decided to intervene and answer the question. Now before any of you blow a gasket and claim I have no clue I actually do because I did several radio shows and television when I was in NYC in the early 70's with Harry and I was asked that very question but in more graphic terms several times. I answered it on a local television show in Philadelphia with the simple response that I am a girl and a girl has a vagina and the women in the audience certainly understood that rationale while the men looked rather squeamish like they always do.
There was and is a professional and adult way to answer the question but they both chose not to be forthcoming, which is their right, but it is not their right to misrepresent the facts and imply they were shocked over any question that involved any reference to surgery of any kind because afterall the very reality is that the transgendered want everyone to think they are transsexual but somehow avoid answering the questions that are relevant to being born transsexual. How freaking convenient.
Just another example of the men getting squeamish discussing their precious male genitalia. That fucking thing means only one thing to a transsexual and it is sadness because to us it was or is a horrible mistake.
11 comments:
I watched the interview via one of the many U-Tube videos online.
What struck me was Carrera's body language. Despite her well polished professionalism, she seemed distracted and uncomfortable while Cox was busy dodging and deflecting that very relevant question.
It just seems to me that both were well prepared to derail the conversation onto the standard T track of victimization, and discrimination.
What they most definitely did not want to address that very obvious and embarrassing non-sequitur in their "presentation".
Cox's presentation was pretty consistent with that of a professional drag entertainer. On the other hand, except for Carrera's apparent discomfort, she was quite convincing until she starting dodging and derailing onto the standard TG rant about how genitals are irrelevant.
This is just another perfect illustration of why TGs misrepresenting those born transsexual is inherently damaging. The more the TGs spout this mantra, the more many in the general public are going to get the idea that for transsexuals as well as these TGs, that genitals don't matter, and that surgery is "unnecessary". This is why those of us who were born transsexual need to be very vocal in distancing ourselves from these people who have not the first clue on what it is like to have transsexualism, and who eschew disturbing ideologies like claiming a penis is "female", and that using it in sexual activity is somehow attributable to being a "female experience".
To genuine transsexuals, what's between our legs is of grave importance, and possession of the wrong ones are the origin of immense distress and pain until they are altered to at least somewhat resemble what they should be in the first place. This wouldn't matter if TGs like the ones this post is about, distanced themselves from those who are trans-sexed, but that isn't the case. They seem to have something to gain from the "we're all the same" mantra, which is why they cling on to it so dearly. But this sort of thing does direct harm to genuine transsexuals, of that I have no doubt.
Anon2
The saddest irony for me is that this is just more evidence that what the Rad Fems say for the most part is dead on the money! Though I'm not about to hold my breath that they can or will ever be able to move past their overarching hatreds. Or that they in anyway will ever recognize us. That doesn't negate the fact that on the whole, they are right!
Transgender, as it is being presented here is extremely damaging to women! Both from the standpoint of the hordes of "ftm" and their denial of alternatives of womanhood, so they must default to being "Male." To the men in dresses who are trying (impossibly) to convince the world that their pricks are womanly... Transgender as both these groups define it has reduced women to what can hardly be called a even two dimensional caricature! One that is bounded entirely by male sexual desires and male fantasy.
Dude? You want to suck a dick... or take it up that ass? No way! No can do! Cause that would make you gay... unless it's a dick on a "chick with a dick!" (and as you are wearing panties over your hard cock, you must be a "Lesbian")
Girls? Hate to be pigeonholed into a world of less than colored in pink and defined by men by your "breedablity" or lack there of? Then clearly you cannot possibly be female, you must be a dude!
Meanwhile, all of them are using us as and our curse, and as we all know, it's nothing less than, as their means to try and convince the world that we are all just the same... Why it is starting to sound rather much like the end on Orwell's "Animal Farm"
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
To the point that the other day I followed TG some linked reaction to Chris Christie's very valid Veto of NJ's legislative carte blanch attempt at allowing changing of Birth Certificates without ANY surgery. His veto was defining by this person as his oppression of a minority, one that was made worse by it requiring for someone to become a recognized female it had to be by state sanctioning genital mutilation and sterilization!
What the???
Make no bones about it! The Pigs on this here farm not only have their eyes set on eliminating the word transsexual from the common vocabulary... as men who like their penis's just fine thank you very much, they are gunning to eliminate the very means to our becoming whole as well!
MKIA
Oh, and lest you think me wrong... follow this link and read between the lines. Even when the surgery is an offered benefit that is paid 100% by insurance... it is almost never used!
http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/research/transgender-issues/costs-benefits-providing-transition-related-health-care-coverage-herman-2013/
As a straight, generally tolerant person, I see this whole thing as manufactured ploy to steer the conversation away from the very relevant issue of deception.
While Cox and Carrera might self identify as women, physically they are not. Imagine the horror of getting intimate with what appears to be an attractive young woman and finding not a hot wet pussy, but a semi-hard cock and balls.
Irrelevant? No. Very relevant. I mean, can we at least try to be real?
@MKIA: Well, the radfems have hated, and been ignorant of those born trans-sexed, long before that issue became obfuscated by the TG males trying hard to convince everyone that those who are in love with their own penises should be considered as "female" as long as they say so. To radfems, SRS is "genital mutilation", and should be outlawed, as well as hormone and hormone blocking treatments. They are correct about the TG males claiming to be "transgender" infringing on the rights of females, but because they make no distinction between them and genuine transsexuals, they are just as much a threat to our wellbeing and access to appropriate medical treatment as the TG males are. Though it is a sad irony that these TGs are, albeit unknowingly, assisting the radfems in their persecution and erasure of those born trans-sexed. Their failure to make any distinction between themselves and genuine transsexuals, gives radfems ammunition to use against us as well as them.
On the subject of FTMs, that's a thorny issue, and I don't really feel like it's my place to be doing any verbal attacking there. I'm a firm believer that there are genuine male transsexuals. And SRS for them is far more expensive, and less effective than the female equivelant, so it's much easier to defend those who can't have surgery in that sense. People born with female sex anatomy can be afflicted with transsexualism, just as much as those born with male sex anatomy. Now of course, there are female transgenders claiming to be men, who aren't born transsexual, but I believe this to be far less prevelant than the opposite way around. Anyone who loves their born sex anatomy, and using it, and would not change it in a shot given the opportunity, is not a transsexual. Whether they are claiming to be male or female.
There are males who want to be considered "female", but who love their male anatomy, and would not wish be born female, even if there was a magic wand that could make that so in a second. I have seen TGs saying these exact things. They are not transsexual and never will be, and nor will they ever be women.
But as much as I hate these TGs obfuscating the issues of transsexualism for their own ends, I do not hate the stance radfems have taken on transsexuals since the late 60's any less. They are two sides of the same coin, and both are dangerous to those born trans-sexed.
I apologize Liz if it seems like I'm derailing this thread, but with your consent, I would like to reply to this issue of the Rad Fems, because I think it pertinent in the long run... First off. I am not their voice piece nor their apologist, but I have to give credit where credit is due and they are in large measure dead on the money about most things "trans."
Something I learned a long time ago was that words don't to hit home unless they are close to the target... The nutter on the street corner talking to the air is annoying but his words fall upon deaf ears because they are nonsense... The reason the Rad Fems get so far under our skin is that even when they don't get "us..." which is almost all the time, they do hit pretty close to home. Otherwise? Their words would be no different than the mouthings of the nutter babbling away about voices coming from the pipes! Which means we need shut up sometimes and really listen to our critics... and really hear what their real issues are so they can be addressed! That is the path of reason and better understanding and the way in which we come to understand ourselves and if we do, we spread that understanding of ourselves to others!
Take the issue of Male Privilege... (yes I went there!) Unless you transitioned before pre-school, you were the recipient of Male Privilege. Just by dint of having been born with a penis you were treated differently than you would have had there been a vagina betwixt your legs... You were accorded greater freedoms, both mentally and physically. You were given more latitude, your needs were given more concern, you were taught to put yourself first. In short you were given the same Male Privilege as all who are born with a penis are! Which is something that NO female is ever given, period! That isn't to say your life wasn't a living hell... Or that you were "privileged" Those are separate issues from having a privilege bestowed upon you and you need to recognize this for exactly what it is. No more, no less!
So when they are saying we don't fully understand what it was to be born female... they are right! When they say we exercise male privilege, they are right... even if it is only in not having certain constraints upon us! I don't know of a single woman born transsexual who isn't somewhat daring and somewhat more willing to take risks than most other women are. Is that in anyway the same as the TG pushing their way into women's spaces for the validation of a fantasy? Hell no! It's just acknowledging a simply fact so we can learn and move on from it! It's like having to come to terms with the fact that we were born with a penis. Or that after surgery we will be barren females. Or that we will never know what it is like to menstruate or to worry after every sexual encounter, willing of otherwise, if we are preggers or not! These things just are and nothing is ever going to make them not so!
Does that make us less than? No... but it does make us in some ways different... and if we are willing to face those things head on for what they are, then they loose all their power over us... Or, we can do like the two being interviewed by Katie and switch the topic or shoot the messenger (with the TG it's usually both) and run and hide because it's uncomfortable... I know for me it's terribly uncomfortable, but it is what it is... and not liking it is never going to make it not be. Look, in my opinion, these things should have been faced with dignity and reasoning a long long time ago when they were first advanced, but they weren't, and so when the TG gained traction... and they began their march to lessen what it means to be female, they drug us right along with them...
MKIA
As to the FTM issue? Of course there are males born transsexual. Just as there are females born transsexual, and from the handful I have seen, they occur in about the same numbers as we do... (and everyone of them that I have met, hate the TG just about as much as we do!)
But again... stop and listen to what their critics are saying! If you do you might find there is some wisdom there, albeit wisdom mixed with a heck of a lot of anger and some outright trash!
Look there is most defiantly a war on women going on in our world. A war which is defined not only by our reproductive capacity (assumed for us and all barren women) but by our relationship to men in general! The patriarchy is serioudly threatened by the rise of women into roles of power... and what better way to control these uppity women than to use their reproductive capabilities against them! That's the battle ground and the pressures on all young women in this battle to conform and to fit within increasingly impossible constraints of beauty and having it all is growing!
I've seen this first hand! Daughter of a friend of mine... possibly lesbian, but decidely unsure, decidedly gifted in math and science and equally ungifted when it comes to interpersonal relations and more so sexual ones went off to college. Where as she was still questioning, sought out that colleges LGB... wait for it... T group! Only there wasn't any L! Seriously not a single blessed one! Just GB and lots ot T! T! T! and more T! Lovely lovey "Trans-men" by the score! And it wasn't a week before they had convinced her that her not fitting into a Disney Pink Princess world meant she too was really a dude... though she as a dude doesn't want a dick of course or to have to shave or to have body hair and it would be so cool to be able to go about her life not being oggled, but she is still mostly attracted to men... well you get the picture!
Fast forward three years. I have held her mothers hand (she doesn't know my history) as this deluded girl has done end run after end run around councilor after councilor who, after many sessions, to a one tried their best to reason with her that she was having very real issues with gender roles... not her sex. That is until as an emaciated adult, she found one was steeped in the TG dogma... Now? She is on T, binding her breasts... Lots of acne and tons of acne scaring, she is starting to get hairy while like most of her compatriots, she is loosing hair on her head... in short? She is doing a world of real harm to herself simply because she has no desire to be constrained because she is female This girl a male? Not on a bet!
So yes... I do listen to the Rad Fems... and yes, it bothers me to no end when they get all up in arms about the transsexual kids being treated, or that there is no such thing as transsexual and that we are simply gay men in denial... (though when they think no one is looking they so get the difference) but that still doesn't lessen the fact that they are right on so many other counts..
MKIA
Anonymous @ 6:40: On the subject of FTM's, being a male myself I feel I can speak on the subject of bottom surgery for us. Bottom surgery, despite what you hear, is getting a lot better and has come a long way than it did several decades ago. Satisfaction rates are also fairly high in terms of sex life, orgasmic ability, aesthetic, etc. Most of the results surfacing the internet, particularly regarding full size penis's, are usually stage 1 phalloplasty(plalloplasty is a multiple stage surgery) or phalloplasties from several decades ago. Metoidioplasty is also an option and of course, is less expensive. Cost varies and depends on the surgeon and whether or not the surgeon does urethral lengthening's, nerve hook-up,etc.
That aside, it is far more common with female transgender individuals pretending to suffer from transsexualism than one thinks. Although the situations are clearly different and driven differently(with male transgender individuals, it seems to be a lot more sexually driven with the desire to keep their penis intact vs female transgender individuals who seem to be trying to escape societal related issues among women and misogyny). They both have one thing in common though: they are both impostors. Male transgender individuals will always be men and vice versa for women. Why? Because one can't live without their precious penis and one can't live without their breasts and vagina.
Us guys have unfortunately dealt with the bullshit that comes flying out of the militant transgender movement. We have women transgenderists telling men that we should just love our parts and that surgery of any kind is bad, yet, these same ingrates want to be seen as men(which in the real world, will never happen). These same people walk about the real world, living a land of delusion, that people are going to respect them as men simply because they say they are while proudly walking about with high heeled shoes, purses and a fitted dress. Some of them have even admitted that while transition(I have no idea how they even started in the first place), to not wanting to be seen as men, but they want to be seen anything other than a woman. Tell me that does not reek of internalized misogyny?
-CHrabowski
@MKIA: Radfems maybe dead on the money when it comes to most things "trans", but their inclusion of those born trans-sexed within that observation, only betrays their ignorance of the issue in a broader context. Whilst they continue to include those born trans-sexed in their observations of all things "trans", their judgement is clouded, and cannot be regarded then, as any real authority on the issue. And about "shutting up and listening to our critics", well radfems never do that, so why does this "rule" not also apply to them?
The only reason that radfems get "under my skin" is not because I think anything they say "hits close to home" as regards to myself, but because the prominent radfems actively interfere in the lives of those born trans-sexed, like advocating the banning of hormone treatments and surgery. Only very recently, a prominent radfem allied with the Pacific Justice Institute in their persecution of Jane Doe, and she even went as far as to make public Jane Doe's real name. Which is a line even the right wing media wouldn't cross. Right wing Christian conservatives are the enemy to feminists everywhere, and the fact that radfems are willing to sleep with the enemy (figuratively speaking) in order to further their assault on transsexuals, is in my mind, a betrayal to feminism. It only proves their intense hatred of transsexuals, that they are willing to sell out all their other feminist principles, simply to aid them in their cause to further hardship and hurt to those born transsexual. What they say as regards to "trans women" should not hit close to home to anyone apart from those TGs. Are they right about those TGs? Absolutely. Does that have any revelance whatsoever to me or nayone else truly born transsexual? Definitely not.
As for "male privilege", there is a fundamental difference between being OFFERED male privilege, and HAVING male privilege. Those who rejected male privilege in childhood, and therefore, never benefitted from having that privilege offered to them, never HAD male privilege. From an early age, I put up very heavy resistance to my family pushing me into a male mold. As such, I was treated very badly, and was not only held in less regard than the male children in my family, but also the females. The lessons that I learned from this was, males are treated as superior to females, and whatever it is that I was, is regarded as lesser than either sex, male or female. This is something I was aware of early in my childhood. Because of my rejection of boyhood, I was treated more as a "thing" than a member of either sex. I was always an outsider within my own family, and did very poorly at school (and left with no qualifications whatsoever) due to the massive mental strain living with transsexualism had on me. Indeed, my extended family disowned me even before I had left school. I have no doubts whatsoever, that had I been born with the right anatomy(female), my childhood would have been far, far better and happier than it actually was, and my life prospects would have been much brighter. Everyone in my family was treated better than me, including the girls, so no, I didn't have male privilege. I was offered it, but because I rejected it before I could benefit from it in any way, I never HAD male privilege. Because of being born transsexual, and never attempting to hide that fact, I had no privileges whatsoever.
"I don't know of a single woman born transsexual who isn't somewhat daring and somewhat more willing to take risks than most other women are."
Really? Well you do now.
@Chrabowski: Thanks for your very informative post. And giving me a better understanding of the surgical side of things for the transsexual males. Everything you've said in regards to imposters and transgenders, I can only whole heartedly agree with. It seems that those who are born transsexual of both sexes see the militant transgender movement for what it really is.
I loved reading your post, thanks again for your insight.
On a final note about radfems, what they say about "trans women" should never be taken as valid critiques on those born trans-sexed, and should be completely disregarded in that context. Rather like Ray Blanchard, they seem to know much when it comes to the TG men in dresses, but are completely clueless and ignorant when it comes to those born trans-sexed. So I do not see them as "our" critics, because they do not know anywhere near enough about the subject to have their views on it treated with any credence.
Also, never having your feelings taken into consideration by people around you, is the polar opposite of having male privilege. I've never known what it's like to have my feelings cared about. My feelings and needs have always been bottom of the pile in the list of anyone's priorities other than my own. This is the complete antithesis of male privilege, and indeed, privilege in general. It is a total myth that everyone born with the "male" label has male privilege. I'm sure many born transsexual never experienced privilege of any kind. I know my experience certainly can't be a unique one. Radfems should not be treated as any kind of expert knowledge on those born transsexual. They are quite the reverse, in fact. If it were not for the fact that some of the more prominent radfems have succeeded by making life tougher for some born trans-sexed by being in cahoots with influential right wing authorities, their views on those with transsexualism wouldn't bother me at all.
I'm sorry Liz if this debate about radfems has derailed this thread, but once the subject was brought up, I felt it had to be addressed.
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