I thought you might be getting a clue, but no, you still are determined to see things as being about you.
Well Jennifer you are right about that because in so many ways it is about me and kids like me and kids like Jane Doe and I know for a fact you will never understand it and I will tell you why here and now.
I do have a great deal of empathy and compassion for young transsexuals and I really do not care if they call themselves transsexual or transgender. In fact I have those same feelings for kids that are gay, lesbian, genderqueer or whatever the heck they call themselves. First and most important is they are children/kids and their future is hanging in the balance and you do not hurt children/kids and particularly not a child like Jane Doe. Second is the simple truth that I know exactly what Jane Doe went through and is going through because I went to High School with everyone knowing about me in one way or another and I did spend one year in hell when I received the kind of vitriol sent towards Jane Doe lately. Unfortunately I also know suicidal thoughts can and do come about from verbal abuse. Mine came from shrinks and Jane Doe's from assholes so they seem equal to me.
I was hoping she would not have the reaction I had but it is difficult for any kid to not fit in, but it is worse for a transsexual kid. What happened in Florence will alter this child's life forever and the Pacific (NON)Justice Institute is to blame along with the many people that somehow placed blame on a beautiful 16 year old girl 2+ years into her transition. She and her parents did this the right way and her therapist approved and she started hormones early, which I personally highly recommend, because early hormones have dramatic results on us.
I admit that this kid is a very emotional issue for me. I see a lot of me and several of my close friends in her. You do not successfully transition for over two years in junior and senior high school if you are not transsexual. There will always be other kids that will bully you because you are different. Try going to school as a girl or appearing as a girl to everyone else when they will eventually know you are not a complete girl when you are a teenager. From personal experience some will let it go because they are just decent kids. Others will call you names or make snide remarks. Some might try and bully you which seems to not have happened to Jane Doe although we know little of her experience before other than she was actually bullied when she tried to use the boys restroom away from school.
In Jane Doe's case it appears she had a modicum of acceptance and had girlfriends but I am sure there were kids that never get the pronouns correct or do not deliberately or are confused by the entire situation. Unfortunately if they took the time to know Jane Doe I am willing to bet they would find someone just as confused as them because Jane Doe cannot fathom how she could have been born a boy when she is a girl. It is something kids like her and yes me will never understand because it is just not right nor is it fair. I have those feelings to this very day.
I admit it incenses me when I read the cavalier denial of her existence as a transsexual by people like Jennifer and I probably should not get mad but initially I thought Jennifer should know better but I realize she doesn't. Being blinded by your dislike of someone else, Cristan Williams, is not a valid excuse. I would say it is ignorance but it is not that either. I am actually more convinced it is blindness based on personal animus of another or maybe petty jealousy. I did not start the nastiness between Jennifer and me and if one looks back at the trail of comments on all the posts one can read the truth but I responded which is my failing and always has been.
I have often said it takes a lot of courage to transition young and it does but that is not the biggest motivating factor. The biggest motivating factor is rather simple but powerful: fear. We push things because we are afraid who we really are will be lost. It does not make us better than others also born transsexual but it certainly makes us more desperate and different. That desperation is based on what we see around us and what people expect us to be and we know we cannot be what they want, to our very core. In fact, we refuse to be what they want and it has consequences and it is not some silly comment by many that I would have if given the opportunity.
I get quite tired of reading comments or blog posts from people like Jennifer claiming they would have transitioned earlier if given the choice, the option, or a family that cared. Hindsight is always 20-20 but in these cases it blurs the simple fact that it is not true and never was true. All of us faced those same issues and fought them and obtained SRS as early as we could. We were never detoured by some therapist or even money which can be earned even if it takes time or maybe from a benefactor like me or my friend.
The simple and hard truth is if you would have transitioned then you actually would transition as early as possible and have gotten SRS. One may have transitioned at 13, 17, 21, 25, or even 30 but it was as soon as possible. That does not make one better but it does make one different. It is about intensity and intensity drives the resolution to your transsexualism whether anyone wants to admit it or not. In the end intensity drives one to resolve your transsexualism and that is how it is. Intensity varies in all of us because no two people are the same.
In my world the child/teenager always gets the benefit of the doubt in all things relating to transsexualism. Maybe it is the result of raising my stepdaughter, as her mother, or maybe it is how I am wired but children are sacred and always will be. Others need to learn that lesson.
I get quite tired of reading comments or blog posts from people like Jennifer claiming they would have transitioned earlier if given the choice, the option, or a family that cared. Hindsight is always 20-20 but in these cases it blurs the simple fact that it is not true and never was true. All of us faced those same issues and fought them and obtained SRS as early as we could. We were never detoured by some therapist or even money which can be earned even if it takes time or maybe from a benefactor like me or my friend.
The simple and hard truth is if you would have transitioned then you actually would transition as early as possible and have gotten SRS. One may have transitioned at 13, 17, 21, 25, or even 30 but it was as soon as possible. That does not make one better but it does make one different. It is about intensity and intensity drives the resolution to your transsexualism whether anyone wants to admit it or not. In the end intensity drives one to resolve your transsexualism and that is how it is. Intensity varies in all of us because no two people are the same.
In my world the child/teenager always gets the benefit of the doubt in all things relating to transsexualism. Maybe it is the result of raising my stepdaughter, as her mother, or maybe it is how I am wired but children are sacred and always will be. Others need to learn that lesson.
32 comments:
"The simple and hard truth is...One may have transitioned at 13, 17, 21, 25, or even 30 but it was as soon as possible. That does not make one better but it does make one different. It is about intensity and intensity drives the resolution to your transsexualism whether anyone wants to admit it or not. In the end intensity drives one to resolve your transsexualism and that is how it is. Intensity varies in all of us because no two people are the same.
In my world the child/teenager always gets the benefit of the doubt in all things relating to transsexualism....children are sacred and always will be. Others need to learn that lesson."
Nicely said, Liz. Thank you.
"Exactly".....
I've most often thought that to be quite a brash statement and not one that humbled people use in general dialogue.
Perhaps this *IS* all about you, perhaps you need to read and consider your own sentiments on this blog about "letting go" of being transsexual, about being "cured" and no longer being transsexual and being simply a woman.
The truth (for any prepared to hear it) is that although life can be lived, and although it does not HAVE to rule you, transsexualism is a trauma, it stays with And effects you for life.
@Renee
What is on this blog is my opinion and I have stated that often enough. If you find my sentiment difficult to like then you are not obligated to read it. As for letting go that concept does not mean I am obligated to not talk about things or to have opinions.
I was "cured" of my condition a very long time ago but that does not mean I cannot write about my early experiences and yes transsexualism is a trauma but as you say it does not need to rule your life and there are always ramifications from any form of trauma.
In my case it only rears its ugly head if I need to tell someone such as a man I am involved with. That is something I can never escape unless I move half way around the world.
I will be 70 in a few years and am a widow so one does tend to look at past memories and events in retrospect since I have lived well over 80+ percent of my life.
I gather you find the discussions here tough to take or too personal but nobody forces anyone to read this blog so maybe you should avoid it.
Far from staying away from here as promised, I see that Mr Usher has written more words attacking Liz.
As I said earlier - a bad penny which keeps coming back.
Our Tommy has written 3 posts today, including 2 where he once again misidentifies me with someone he used to cross swords with in the remnants of his memory.
I guess a doctor would diagnose Tommy with having a severe case of the verbal shits.
True TS misidentified by Mr Usher
I don't find it tough at all Liz, in fact I agree with many of the things you have to say, however, I also occasionally see danger and difficulties young people in some of the attitudes you and others here put forward.
Although it doesn't have to rule one or one's life trauma cannot be hidden from and or ignored forever, not without consequence.
Secondly, the sad fact is that (even for children) there's not always someone there to help and protect and "save" us, it sucks! But that's life, not everyone gets to live there "fairytale",
I don't doubt you suffered through some atrocities but you were also fortunate in ways you fail to recognize (here at least).
Best wishes to you.
The person you know is behind this "handle" (Renee)
Please excuse my poor spelling, it should have read:
"difficulties FOR young people"
And:
"not everyone gets to live THEIR fairytale"
@Renee
Life is never a fairytale. Those of us born transsexual just keep plugging away and keep hoping and working so life can turn out better than it started.
As a child I so wanted to be Cinderella but one learns quickly that life is not fair at times. You claim I have been fortunate in ways I fail to recognize in this blog and I would say you obviously have not read this blog or you missed a lot of points.
I have written about the simple fact I feel very lucky and fortunate because someone was always there to rescue me from me and from some unfortunate circumstances. A boy risked his life to pull me off the rocks of a tidal spillway when I was not quite 14 an intent on ending it all.
I have never said I was not fortunate but I worked for the money to get my surgery because there was no assurance I would ever see the money from my family. I used that money to help a lot of kids over the years because I have always been able to earn a really good living because family genetics gave me brains.
I write about a lot of stuff because I find it difficult to talk about but I did receive a lot of help from Harry and even Dr. person in order to free myself from what I lived through and it was what it was,
Many kids do not get the help they need but those that would have transitioned early with help almost always work hard and transition as early as possible and that is because of intensity.
I have no clue who is behind this handle Renee.
I see that JJ is still coming back like a bad penny and once again has been slagging off Liz, etc.
I would hazard a guess that many of the women present here would echo my sentiments when I say the following to JJ when JJ takes a gander at this post and the comments again:
With the greatest of disrespect I refer JJ to the answer given to counsel for the Plaintiff by the Defendant in the matter of Arkell v Pressdram.
The thorn on an English Rose.
It's not my business, so you don't owe me any answers, BUT!
Worked hard doing what? And for who?
Could you have made transition and SRS happen from a starting point of having nothing?
No help from any family and no decent education?
Would you have still been teenage transitioner under those circumstances?
You'd probably have been dead instead right?
You may have thought (at the time) that you wanted to be, but the human body is not that hard to kill Liz, you'd have made it happen if you were truly serious about being dead.
JMO.
@Renee
Read the many blog posts Renee because all your answers are un a post somewhere.
I've read the blog Liz, that's part of the point.
If I remember correctly (and it's possible I've misunderstood what I've read) your uncle helped you with work/employment and you worked in engineering/as an engineer(?)
If you'd not had his help, if you weren't given the education to do work that (I can only assume, even though I never like to make assumptions) should have paid relatively well, if NO-ONE had ever "believed" you when you told them you were a girl, then where would you be and what would have become of you?
would you still have been that teenage transitioner? IE would you still have the thing you (appear to) base your validity on, the life experiences you base your authority/expertise on?
You often say you had/transsexuals have "no choice"...
we DO choose.
Death IS an option, the survivors transition not because we have no choice, but because we're to scared to kill ourselves.
It IS a choice
Many people, many "fakes" hide behind that dogma that they HAD to transition or they would have had to kill themselves, most NEVER truly face that choice, it's only the truly unfortunate ones who understand it, and to them the rest can easily be seen for who and what they are.
again, I DO value much of what you write, but some of it only hurts and threatens people who walk the path that I (for one) had to walk.
I have nothing more, just to wish you all the very best (again) and if you ask the right people you'll find you do know my story and who I am.
Renee.
Liz had some advantages and some disadvantages, we all do, but her advantages were probably much less important than you imagine.
No family or friends helped me and my school background couldn't be mentioned because it was in the wrong name. Starting in the early 1970's I lived and worked as myself in jobs you'd find listed in the want ads under "Jobs - Women", saving to get surgery about the same age as Liz - mid twenties.
No advantage for me, beyond being reasonably intelligent, but I knew others with ordinary IQ's who did as well in building an appropriate life. At least 90% of success was motivation and determination.
- an old aunty
@Renee
You have not read this blog much. I only was suicidal because at the time I did not believe there was any hope of ever becoming a complete girl and I thought I was doomed to be an adult male. When I met Benjamin that all changed and I have never had a suicidal thought since then. Once I new surgery was possible that was my goal and I worked hard for it. I have never once said I had to transition or I would have killed myself. If you think you transition because you are afraid to kill yourself then I would sekk help.
I have never denied I had help but my Uncle did himself a favor by trying to hire me and then getting me to work for him, believe me. As for the claim of choosing well I beg to differ because if you are transsexual it always wins and the time and place in life might change but the intensity always increases. For some it is earlier and for others it is later.
What path is it that I threaten Renee? Please enlighten me. If you are planning for or have had SRS you are my sister or brother and that is my opinion.
In truth I really do not care who you are because it is no importance since you are not someone I consider a friend which implies someone I know. That is not meant to be offensive but you are not important. Sorry.
As for validity or lack of validity or no validity that is your issue and not mine. Like all blogs I make blog posts that are sometimes critical of positions I consider silly and that is my right.
Sometimes I do cross the line and sometimes I realize I am wrong and will admit it. My primary failing according to most is my lack of understanding of the transgender crowd which isn't going to change. I have little patience or compassion for the transvestite that suddenly decides to be transsexual when dressing is the issue. If this is about cloths, shoes, makeup, and gurls night out en femme then something is wrong and I say something.
As for hurting people I generally find the people you think I am hurting have already destroyed their lives, the wife and kids lives, and are headed down some road they will eventually regret but then it is their regret and not mine.
Aunty, if you where able to attain work from that section of the paper and you weren't disclosing your history, then I'd have to think you were at least relatively "passable" do you not see that as advantageous? You had involvement with Reed Erickson, can I ask why?
"Liz had some advantages and some disadvantages, we all do, but her advantages were probably much less important than you imagine"~ An Old Aunty
"As for hurting people I generally find the people you think I am hurting have already destroyed their lives"~ Liz
Personally, I find both of these remarks to be ignorant, however, I guess I can't really expect more from either of you and further, there are incredibly few people like me left that could share my perspective, so in the end I guess (you're right Liz) I (and what I think) am not important and do not matter.
Good day to you both.
@Renee
First off you are not important in my life and that is a simple fact. I do know who this is and all you are having is a giant case the poor me blues. I do value your opinions but not when they are misplaced.
If I am right about who this is then you are a classic example of someone who did not have the chance to do anything young, many are the same way, but you worked your ass off to have the money needed for the surgeries needed.
You showed amazing courage in your 20's and went for it. Currently you are having a giant case of postpartum blues since this was a form of re-birthing yourself. Life not going exactly as you planned after SRS? Welcome to the real world.
If this is not Abby then as Gilda Radner said on Saturday Night Live, nevermind!!
No blues Liz, life's fine in fact, just concerned about those who need to do thing the way I was made to do them, are you allowed to be concerned for those who face what you did but I am not allowed to be concerned for those that face what I did?
I DON'T believe a transsexual marries a woman and fathers children I don't believe ANY woman does that in fact, but I also know for a fact that not all transsexuals are give the opportunity to transition as children and that some of us DO endure horrific and damaging male puberties, regardless of how "intense" we felt what we did, and regardless of how hard we may have "pushed" boundries.
I KNOW that we're NOT all fortunate enough to be delicate and feminie physically and that because of that we don't all get recognized so easy as (it appears) you did.
I did not come here to argue or start a fight.
I'm sorry.
@Renee or Abby
Of course you have the right to be concerned for those that had your path but I fail to see where I have said that is wrong or somehow invalid. I understand you are bitter that you had problems but you solved them or did you?
I am sorry that you suffered the ravages of male puberty but how is that my fault or how have I somehow done you wrong in that respect. It is why I fight and try and help kids get on estrogen early but I guess you are jealous of those of us that lived the other path.
In the end it is a benefit to us but not in the beginning. I was "recognized as a "fag", a "poof", a "queer", a "transvestite" (I had no idea what that was then), and had things said to me by all the shrinks trying to "cure" the silly little fag of his silly belief that he was a girl.
Please spare me your self pity because it is beneath you and it is self pity or the poor mes or whatever one wants to call it. You did not get early help well tough shut because most of us do not and those that did in my day paid a very heavy price.
As for advantages you had your share whether you want to admit it or not. You made lots of money doing what you did so please spare me the crocodile tears and the poor mes. I have friends that sold themselves and worked in drag and scrimped and saved every last dime and prayed to god it would not get stolen.
Everyone has advantages and disadvantages. I had not one dome from 17 1/2 until I got out of grad school. I ate only if the cafeteria food I paid for was available and otherwise tried to survive on what money I made tutoring and I starved a lot. I was estranged from my family and spent every holiday and school vacation alone at school hiding so they would not find me and kick me to the streets until the semester began.
You just figure out a way to deal with it but nobody can fix being alone on Xmas or the other holidays so please spare me your pity party.
One of my best friends in the world jumped off the George Washington Bridge because there was no such thing as FFS, hair transplants, or a surgeon that would help her with SRS because she was Italian and destroyed by male puberty. Be thankful you were born a lot later.
As for the I'm sorry ending please explain why you are sorry or is it more of the pity party theme? If I was there with you I would give you a giant dope slap because you need one and then a long hug because you really need one of those right about now, also.
My path was my path Liz, it is what was dealt me, I'm not bitter nor jealous of anyone and I'm certainly not here to "compete" with anyone, in fact, in Retrospect (short of being born "right") I don't think I'd change anything if I'd have had the ability. (except maybe the amount of involvement I've had in the blog world)
Perhaps the problem is me, but what I read over and over here (with your blog posts and comments) is you drawing a defining line between types of transsexuals that I (personally) do not believe exists.
You say it almost constantly, that kids are "different" that they're more "intense" and I just do not see that.
What *I* see is that there are transsexuals and then there are transvestites (some of whom do silly things and try to make out that they are transsexual when in truth they are not).
Transsexuals ALL face difficulties (as both you AND aunty have pointed out) those difficulties do not change who we are or how we feel about that, but they can dramatically effect our life and how and when we manage to get on with it.
Transsexuals don't differ, only their individual situations do.
What am I sorry for? Not too many things but what I was apologizing for was sharing my opinion when I need not have, also because I worried I may have agitated or offended you unintentionally.
It makes no difference to me whether you post this or not, I simply wanted to point out what I (and I must believe I'm not the only one) read here, in the hope that you might see (and maybe understand) another perspective on some of the things you write.
@Renee. I know who you are and I know that you know that we have agreed to disagree on this point. At least I hope you have.
My point is that I am of the opinion that you are being quite presumptuous when you project a belief that you obviously hold strongly, onto others who hold a different view by making the following statement.
"we DO choose. Death IS an option, the survivors transition not because we have no choice, but because we're to scared to kill ourselves. It IS a choice."
Surely you can recognize that this is your personal opinion base on your personal life experience. Surely you can understand that others may have had a life experience different from yours.
It should be more than obvious to you that for many it is in fact a matter of life or death. As you well know, being born TS is far from a blessing. I think what might be considered is that Liz is speaking from a lifetime of experience.
We all walk different paths. What matters at the end of the day is up to each of us as the individuals we are. That you hd to work your a** of to get your $$$ is nothing special. We all did. You did not have the support of your parents? Oh my! Welcome to the real world.
Just remember. What does not kill you, makes you stronger.
#Renee
First off there is a difference in intensity in transsexuals and the kids are different. Looking at you I would say you were one of the kids that slipped through the cracks as we Americans say. It is absolutely no way diminishes the intensity you felt because it drove you to do it the first time you had a chance.
In my world you were still young and circumstances are always different. Transsexuals do differ and Benjamin witnessed that in his practice which was why he had Types but even Harry knew lines blurred. Psychosexual inversion is decidedly different than being a woman trapped in a man's body. In Harry's mind it was distinctive but it did not make one transsexual somehow better than the other one.
I post basically everything that arrives in a comment because if I am going to write something I need to take the heat if others disagree. I do value your opinion because you were young but it does not mean I have to agree and I am sorry but it did come across oddly to me.
I always find it humorous when people claim kids like me had an advantage when they did not live through it in the 1950's and 60's like I did which were the dark ages. There was absolutely no advantage to being pretty, feminine, and smaller than other boys.
I do take offense with comments like yours because you know nothing about it like I know little about what you went through. we were threatened with Mental Hospitals and sent to shrinks who were clueless and in my case spent 8 1/2 weeks in mental institutions because of what I was.
The last 6 1/2 plus weeks were in Medfield State Hospital which housed the state sexual deviant wing where they dropped me off into the hands of a Nazi prick that was later exposed in a movie about Bridgewater State Hospital in Massachusetts. They tried to convert me and I have several physical scars to prove it.
Our mutual friend was threatened with the same potential treatment in England. The irony is most of not all of you have not one fucking clue what people like me, our mutual friend, or even Suzan Cooke went through back then yet many claim it was privilege or advantageous. Somehow being physically tortured for 6+ weeks is missed and I was not the first one like me they got their filthy hands on and they made sure I knew that
It is one of the few things about my early life I never detail because I am not sure I could put it into words. Maybe the truth is many of you should be glad you did not get what you think you wished you had. The grass it not always greener on the other side of the road.
Maybe I should write about it and maybe some of you will wake up.
A lifetime of experience as what? (EC?)
Liz, I meant you no disrespect.
I have washing to do and a boyfriend to cook dinner for, peace to you all.
#Renee
You did not disrespect me in any way. I am happy you have a boyfriend.
Go make him a nice supper and enjoy yourself.
To reply to your response to me, Renee:
Questions of passing were NOT what I was addressing. I was responding to the specific accusations of the advantages you attributed to Liz:
- having more than nothing
- having help from family
- having a decent education
Most TS people I knew managed without those advantages. I was in a gender program and met somewhere between 30 and 50 people who were trying to transition. I also knew some from the streets. Most were quite poor. Only a small minority had moral support of their families. None had financial support. Only a few of the older former transvestites had any person assets to speak of. Few had more than a high school education and none of us could admit to much of an education without outing ourselves.
To answer your other questions:
- At the start I greatly feared I had too many physical disadvantages to succeed, and my plan B was suicide. But, with real effort and tenacity I worked on my disadvantages enough to be passable.
- I never met Erickson, but I was on the mailing list for the publications of his foundation, a great source of information. It galls me when excuse makers say there was no information back then.
By the way, keeping track of who's who here is a low priority for me. A lot of the on-going interactions here make little sense without such context
P.S.
"...there are incredibly few people like me left that could share my perspective."
Because I don't keep good track of who has previously said what, what perspective might that be?
P.S. to the P.S. and prior my comment:
- an old aunty
Aunty, I'd decided to leave this thread where it was, I'd said all that I felt I needed too, I'm going to try and stick with that after this (so please don't think I'm being rude or ignoring you) but I do have a few things I'd like to ask:
Of those you knew/met how many do you know of that achieved what they'd set out to?
I don't intentionally keep track of people here (if that is what you imply? I can't tell and don't like to make assumptions) I just (appear to) have a very good memory.
Like Liz, I meant you no disrespect.
Best wishes.
P.s can I also ask why suicide was not plan "a"?
again, I wish you all peace.
Speaking as the other anonymous poster here, (Not an old aunty), I find myself in agreement with her views. I find it hard to imagine that the media splash made by the return of Christine Jorgensen to the US in the mid 50's, and Dr. Rene Richards in the late 70's, was something that could have been missed by anyone with an interest.
I remember being horrified by media interest surrounding Ms. Jorgensen while at the same time being astounded by the facts of what she had actually done! This was my very first awareness that what I had been praying for since infancy was actually possible. I am not clear on the dates of when exactly I became aware of this, but I am guessing that I was perhaps 7 or 8 years old.
As the child of an immigrant single mom, I knew it would take a miracle to realize my dream, but now at least I knew that the possibility existed.
What I see as a definite advantage that I enjoyed was that I operated outside the established "gender" frame of reference. The one interaction I had with a GD clinic in Stanford, CA. was enough to convince me that the self-important "specialists" running that clinic had their own ideas about what I was experiencing which had absolutely nothing to do with my reality.
It was my good fortune to find a surgeon to do what needed doing without all the "gender" nonsense being bandied about by "learned fools" who honestly to this day still do not have a clue.
It was all about money and grants then, and it is all about money and grants now.
@Anonymous
I would disagree with part of your first paragraph. Jorgensen was not someone I heard of because when she was announced to the US in December of 1952 by the New York Daily News I was not quit 7 and in my house I was not allowed to read the papers until after my Grandfather and all the other adults had finished.
I had absolutely no clue who Jorgensen was and when Harry introduced me to her in the Spring of 1960 when I was 14 I still had no clue who she was. She was actually quite amused that this kid had no clue who she was.
Of course when I was told she was kind of like me that opened the flood gate of questions from me. I do remember holes in the paper but they had always edited the paper so it was fit for me to read and I am sure the local paper and the Boston Globe had the story but it was just another edited paper to me.
It would certainly have helped a lot and given me more hope but at that time my family was really getting worried about me and I would eventually begin my visits to a ling line of Psychiatrists.
The other thing was Boston was a very parochial center in that if the Catholic Church opposed it the papers were not going to be happy.
I did ask my mother after I learned who Christine was if she knew about her and they did. I was never given an answer why not but at that point I was under Harry's care so asking that question as a 14 year old was not one I was brave enough to put forth.
I have a feeling my older brother knew about Christine but he has never admitted that to me and I did ask. It might have curtailed the depression and suicide attempts which were the result of not thinking I could be helped.
The more surprising thing to me is not one of the dozen or so shrinks I went to ever mention Jorgensen. That was either deliberate or even they did not know which I tend to not buy.
Besides it was absolutely illegal to dress in public as a girl when you were a boy. In NYC you got arrested and Frisco had some rule about a certain pieces of clothing had to be one gender or the other. Transition was impossible back then.
Back then we pushed the limits with some cloths and eye makeup etc. and I was threatened multiple times by the school principal for how I looked but they would never dare cross my family so I survived.
It was the dark ages in so many ways.
Liz. As you might well surmise, our individual experiences of being born the way we, was quite different in many ways. From what I can tell, you came from a reasonably well off family, which is nothing like what I experienced.
As you might well understand, my recollection of my very early childhood is far from precise. As best I can recollect, it was something on TV and it was exceedingly brief and I only got a partial glimpse. I do remember seeing a B&W of Christine stepping off a plane with a bevy of reporters with flashbulb cameras at some later date, which confirmed what I "thought" I had seen on TV.
My point is that by the 80's and 90's, "sex change" was an easily discoverable possibility. It just never ceases to amaze me how these cross-dressing men, demanding full recognition as women, always claim that they "woulda, coulda, shoulda" transition, if only....blah, blah, blah.
You know and I know that if the intensity is sufficiently critical, those of us that must, either transitioned, died, or went crazy. We all found or way.
Those were my "choices".
@Anonymous
My family had money and political power but that brings its own problems cause weirdness like me was not something the political wing of the family wanted anything to do with. It was what it was and I survived.
Yeah I find the crossdresser bullshit a little much. Particularly when they claim they will "kill" themselves. Their problem is social and dressup related so I guess nit being allowed to go out as Mary in the new miniskirt at 65 is enough stress to bring on suicide. Freaking ridiculous.
Be quiet about intensity don't you know we are all the same?????
An old aunty says:
(Seems my first try at this was lost somehow, but it gives me a chance for a shorter version. Really, it's shorter.)
Liz,
Two of my street friends spent time in jail for dressing as women. Others were threatened. It puts a premium on nerve and presentation. Second, I didn't learn about Christine Jorgensen until I was about 19 and studying the literature.
Renee,
To your question, a small number I knew/met moved away or left the program for a variety of reasons I don't know. Most of the young ones who stayed with the program did well and got surgery within 1 to 4 years and all of those eventually married men, best I recall. One died of a heart condition while in the program. One decided he was really a man and went back to living as one. He has some psychological issues. Of the four I knew from the street, three got surgery, two before me and one after. One de-transitioned to be a gay man because his boyfriend didn't like women. I knew less about the older ones in group. Several attended group regularly and they got surgery about like the young ones. Many others were secretive, didn't attend group regularly and had issues with wives they seemed unable to resolve. One who had surgery went on to live a gender ambiguous life but seemed happy enough when I saw her? again about 15 years later. A few older ones passed ok, married men and seemed happy enough. Some passed poorly and weren't as happy. In short it was a lot like now. The more things change the more they stay the same. Of the FTMs, except for three who became smack addicts, most got mastectomies. I remember two had penis creation surgery. On the whole, MTFs got less surgery because penis surgical options weren't good.
BTW, a few who succeeded well, young and older, were tall and disadvantaged by current standards, but it was before #$%&* Jerry Springer.
Another topic, my reference to keeping track meant wasn't an accusation. I couldn't make sense of some of your comments that seemed to require facts not in your current messages. I'm guessing they were from prior comments you expected us to remember.
To Renee's postscript question,
I see suicide the opposite way. Suicide would be letting win the assholes who made me miserable, tried to force me to be a man and who said I would be a laughingstock as a woman. To be a woman would be vindication my childhood belief I was a girl. Screw the bastards! Suicide would be the last resort and the result of failure. I really really hate to fail. I wasn't afraid of death. I only feared not having a life worth living. The answer was to try like hell to win, and I did.
To prove the nay-sayers wrong, to insist our truth is right and the "truth" of everyone else is wrong takes enormous conviction and unshakeable confidence in the reality and rightness of what we feel. A boat load of stubbornness and a contrary nature helps, too. Maybe it's why we argue so strongly here and elsewhere. We had to be that way or fail.
-an old aunty
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