Following the article is the rationale by Kveller which in reality is based on specious comments and a vicious attack on the former wife of Joy Ladin who is a Professor at Yeshiva University who so conveniently waited until he was tenured before changing genders which led to divorce.
Ms Benvenuto is far kinder than I would be to this piece of shit who feels he can write about his wife and family in his autobiography but his wife cannot write about some of the issues she faces on a daily basis. Christine Benevenuto is a published author of note and is well respected yet her words were censored and she was actually attacked verbally in NYC at a book reading by the transgender mafia that required police intervention and this is the real reason for her ex's anger.
Christine Benvenuto has written a book titled:
Sex Changes: A Memoir of Marriage, Gender, and Moving On
Amazon Link
This is the reason for the censorship and the further attempted censorship of her book by the transgender mafia. How dare anyone write a book that describes what the wife goes through when a husband that has never cross-dressed suddenly decides to change genders and in her case becomes hostile to her in subtle ways that nearly broke this shy Jewish woman. There are some indications he had father issues and said occassionally he wished he was a girl when they first met but it ended there. The book should give unsight into this.
How dare she write about her feelings and what this did to her. I have purchased the Kindle version of her book and am reading it and will publish a review.
Read this and tell me why you would censor this article. Now you know why. Now even Gender Trender knows the rationale behind the attacks on Christine Benevenuto. So now you know the rest of the story behind this attempt at censorship.
Reprinted unedited under Fair Use.
Dec 3 2012
Staying in the Same Town as My Ex
By Christine Benvenuto at 9:54 am
Recently, one of my children was referred to a new doctor. Somewhat unusually, my ex came along to the appointment.
The doctor entered the room where we sat waiting, introduced herself, and greeted my child. I introduced myself as my child’s mother. “And who are you?” the doctor asked my ex. “I’m the other parent,” my ex replied stiffly. “The other parent,” the doctor echoed, laughing and nodding. I could see her assessing the situation, making the obvious assumption about our family composition: I had given birth to my child. Her “other parent” was my former lesbian partner. Half right. Sketching in our child’s medical profile the doctor asked some questions about her brother and sister, and we provided the necessary information.
“But do they have the same father?” the doctor inquired. What she meant but didn’t say was, “Do they have the same sperm donor?”
“Yes,” we said in unison. What we meant but didn’t say was, “Yes, and you are looking at him.”
A funny thing happened on the way to my becoming a single mom.
My husband and I got together in our teens. More than 20 years and three children later, he decided to live the rest of his life as a woman. Our marriage melted along with his masculinity. I went through the anguish any woman might over the unexpected demise of a long and happy marriage. I faced the usual potpourri of dread–of penury, isolation–when I contemplated raising three children alone, the youngest still in diapers. Worse, I felt crushed by a sense that the reason for my marriage’s demise said something so terrible about me it would be intolerable to remain in a place in which it was public knowledge. Exactly what it said, I wasn’t sure. Maybe that was part of what made it so awful.
Everything was changing. I thought that where my children and I lived would have to change right along with it. But I love where I live. More importantly, my children are fiercely attached to it. They like that when my friends spot them in town without me, they want to know who they are with and what they are up to. They like knowing the trees that are tapped for our syrup and the chickens providing our eggs. They like noticing the way the flocks of turkeys who usually tie up traffic on our roads seem to go into hiding just before Thanksgiving each year only to reappear when it’s safely over.
Still. Weren’t we fighting a losing battle, hanging onto a place just because it was where we had once been happy? I couldn’t go, but how could I stay?
Finally someone offered the most profound insight into my situation I have heard to date, uttering the words that set me free from this stalemate: “You aren’t the first woman to marry a jerk, and you won’t be the last.”
Ah!
She was saying I had nothing to be ashamed of. My ex’s choices didn’t reflect badly on me. When a guy dumps a wife and young children for another woman, people–the wife in question, certainly–are more likely to think, “What a jerk!” than, “What a hero!” Why should it be any different just because the other woman is the guy?
I’ve stayed–so far. As long I remain I can’t ever get entirely away from my past, but then maybe I don’t want to. It’s mine, after all. Everything my eyes rest on, every Fall Foliage banner, every coffee shop and playground, recalls some moment of my children’s lives, some treasure I never want to lose. I was happy before. I’m happy now. I’ve made a new life without leaving. Astoundingly, I’ve moved on without leaving home.
On the other hand, I also can’t get entirely away from my ex’s presence. There’s no upside to that one. I can’t know when, not if but when, my ex will pop up somewhere or sometime I least expect him.
Last December I was behind the wheel of a pickup truck, a little before 9 in the morning, after delivering my children to their schools. I was headed downhill on a narrow winding road, a horse pasture on the other side of the fence on my left. There is an entrance to the pasture at the bottom of the hill but few vehicles stop there. I was expecting a 40 mile an hour shot down the hill, through the tiny town center and up another hill to where I live, what National Public Radio calls my local member station muttering sedately at the outskirts of my attention all the while. Then two things happened.
My former husband was in the truck. That is, his voice was in the truck. His odd, grown-male-straining-for-the-uppermost-register-of-his-voice voice. Saying his name. Saying, “What the holidays mean to me is–.”
I reached the knob in time to spare myself anything further. I didn’t learn what the holidays mean to my ex. Presumably not celebrating with his family. Not the intention, unfulfilled yearly, to make it to the lighting of the town menorah. Not the intention, always fulfilled, to light every menorah we own at least one night of Hanukkah. Not the turns around a frozen pond in skates bought long ago for other feet. Not New Year’s Eve in front of the fire, at least one child struggling to remain head up and eyes open. Not these things he isn’t around for.
The radio station was engaged in a December campaign, trite but previously benign, of playing the voices of area residents saying Feliz Navidad or Happy Solstice. I was engaged in a December campaign of tuning them out. Why my former husband? How did they choose him? In their efforts to be inclusive did they feel that merely by airing his voice, regardless of what he said, they could have a demographic covered? I couldn’t think about it right then. I was too busy stomping on the brake, trying not to rear-end the truck in front of me that had, in the split second I was devoting to my radio knob, stopped at the pasture gate. I just made it.
Usually the omnipresence of Bing Crosby and the Chipmunks is enough reason to avoid the radio this time of year. Now I had another. In subsequent days I had several opportunities to lunge for the dial. Friends caught the spot and shared their unique takes on it. “My husband said he heard your ex on the radio advertising himself,” one reported. “Why would he be advertising himself?” she wondered. “My husband said whatever the reason was, if he gets any money out of it he hopes he will give some of it to his family.”
So yes, my ex recurs like Christmas carols. But I don’t have to let him drown out the rest of my life. I knew the holidays would soon be over, and the echoes of his voice along with them.
The following is the notice of censorship published by the Kveller website:
Dec 5 2012
A Note to Our Readers
By Kveller at 12:07 pm
Kveller has always prided itself on being a place where people can discuss the most challenging parts of life and parenting—infertility, death, and yes, divorce.
We have seen how much support, encouragement, and affirmation people feel when their voices are heard and their deepest disappointments and difficulties are shared and discussed.
The honesty and courage of our writers are what have made Kveller such a compelling and valuable website.
At the same time, the social utility of our articles is something we take seriously. We want Kveller to help people feel more confident, more secure, more understood. Unfortunately, our decision to publish “Staying in the Same Town as My Ex” in the form that it was in has undermined that effort, and thus we have decided to remove it from the website.
When it comes to issues that impact a historically (and currently) persecuted community it is our responsibility as editors to be extra sensitive to the exact language being used. Kveller and its parent organization MyJewishLearning are committed to honoring the identities and life experience of all people, including transgender people. We do not believe that this article was meant to be transphobic, but we do believe that our failures in the editing process created an article that could be read that way, which is not good for the writer, Kveller, and most importantly, the LGBT community, which Kveller and MyJewishLearning are dedicated to supporting and working with to create a more inclusive Jewish community.
55 comments:
Transgender censorship is just one of the tools they use to foister their twisted message on a gullable public. Their one sided biased view serving only the interests of themselves, is all they will allow to be heard. Any dissent is shouted down with cries of "Bigotry, trans-phobic, Hatred, ignorance" and a myriad of other squealing protests we have all heard many times over. Any dissent posted as comments on their blogs are dealt with by excluding the author from posting. Blogs like this one of Elizabeth is visited and their vitriol derails any discussion that does not pay homage to their cause, again with accusations of bigotry and trans-phobia.
It is truly about time those who are adversely affected by transgender stood firm and countered their aggression. My heart goes out to this poor woman, it is quite apparent she is in emotional pain and she has a right to have her viewpoint heard and heard in the places where the perpetrators of this type of mistreatment of innocent victims is positively encouraged, the TG blogs.
Cassandraspeaks
You GOTTA love this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skKCrRH4xEE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skKCrRH4xEE
I guess we shouldn't expect much from a bunch of anti freedom, authoritarian, woman hating transvestite men.
cassandra
haha .. well, we have been there and done that eh!
Yep, time to catch up.
Landin sounds like a world class jerk.
This passage from Christine's book really proved it for me...
I took it for granted that if Tom was really going to live as a woman, he would move away, or the children and I would move away. It went without saying that I wasn't going to attempt a fresh start in the small town in which we had lived together as a happy family, passing Tom on the street in a dress.
When I put this to Tom, he erupted. "I'm not going anywhere. I'm not leaving this house. I'm going to do what I want to do and I'm going to do it right here."
"But you want to make a fresh start," I spluttered. "We need one, too."
"You're not making a fresh start!" He was furious. "You have no legal right to the house or the kids. They belong to me. If you want to leave, go right ahead. But you're not taking the kids with you."
I was stunned. This was the emergence of the new Tom, one I'd come to know very well over the next several years. The one who intimidated and threatened, who laid down the law and expected me to abide by it. If Tom was becoming a woman, he had never seemed so male – a tyrannical bully he had never been in our marriage.
(Emphasis mine.)
The comments on the GT Link were quite interesting. Besides that the gist of the article highlights just how truly disturbed and vindictive these misogynists can be.
@Angel
The most disturbing to me was forcing his daughter Bibi to secretly play dress-up with him amd also secretly dressing in front of his 2 year old daughter when Christine was not around.
Another really disturbing item was when they were in divorce proceedings this weasel claimed in court he should have custody of the kids because Bibi needed training in being feminine and basically only he could do it because he suddenly was an expert on being feminine.
This book was the real reason behind all the bullshit this poor woman has gone through. I finished reading it and some of the shit he pulled was classic male.
Just when you think the TG have gone as low as they or anyone can possibly stoop and no-one not even them could possibly get lower, THEY DO! That comment in the quote posted by Angel is about as despicable as anything I have ever heard.
Cassandraspeaks
OK, So I am TOTALLY confused here. What the hell part of this article is even remotely trans-phobic or critical of this person's current trans status????
My ex will likely never refer to me with female pronouns and that is entirely HER right. She has always maintained that my voice is the ONLY way that she can still rationalize this situation because she always says that when we talk on the phone, she can still relate to the person she was so emotionally attached to. My ex was married to a male. A "he". We spent 30 years together and she will FOREVER retain the right refer to me in any manner in which SHE is comfortable. My history as a male in her life will never be erased by any change in my life and I would never try to force that change on her. I OWN my past. I OWN the impact I am having on her future. Her future does NOT require her to accept / change her past to protect me in any way.
I realize that my relationship with my ex may be very different from others but it seems that many of these people never truly loved or respected their partners. I find it absolutely disgusting that this person has used their position to mobilize protests and attacks against their ex partner from so many public third parties that have absolutely NO RIGHT to comment on the personal feelings written by an ex in their OWN and VERY VALID personal experiences. The ex made no accusations or any other negative comments. The entire article was written from HER perspective and is ENTIRELY valid.
Once again, I find that I am so DISGUSTED at my male history. This entire issue is just SO WRONG in SO MANY ways. I cannot accept the idea that this person actually managed to censor his ex simply for using the wrong pronouns. Completely invalidates her entire perspective and tries to force a change on the one person who should have a "free pass" for the rest of her life. HE never loved her at all. Yes "HE". "HE" absolutely disgusts me.
It's why Transgender censorship is a huge menace to society and to Intersex, Lesbian and Women's community. It clearly shows that people like Joy Ladin hate Freedom of Speech and hate bio women.
What's shocking here is that some of the TG borg have enabled Joy Ladin to silence his ex wife and label anything she say's as bigotry or transphobic. What the TG Borg is doing is Transgender censorship on anything that is critical of them. Which is why the TG Borg hates criticism and Freedom of Speech.
It's time that people need to stand up to the TG borg and take them down. Transgender censorship is wrong and people like Joy Ladin are Men who are bullying people.
What fights us is so much bigger than what we are fighting for.
@BS you just don't get it do you. What we are fighting for is our own identity. The one the TG have stolen from us and perverted in the eyes of the public. I happen to think that is an issue worth fighting for.
I actually do not have a dog in this fight because my history is not known. Not everyone is that fortunate. Right now the whole world thinks we are all super transvestites and not women thanks to the TG Juggernaut. I fought long and hard thirty years ago endured misery you have no concept of despite your own trauma we discussed a year ago. I gave up a life some people dream of to enjoy the life I have now. I am not going to allow the likes of Colleen Francis or this dipshit Mr Ladin to pervert the authenticity of my life for his own self gratification without putting up some resistance. I intend to be a thorn in their side for as long as it takes. We owe at least that to the kids who come after us who deserve a life free of the stigma that is transgenderism.
This is about which sex you are and NOT what you identify as or what clothes you wear. Or have you completely misunderstood what you read in Caroline's book, the heroine you hold in such high esteem.
Cassandraspeaks
For once I must agree with BS. What we fight, the TG Borg and the LGBTg "we are all the same" mantra, is much muc bigger than a few women fighting to maintain their Right to Choose to NOT be associated with them.
Silencing dissenting opinion...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2012/12/11/espn-radio-steve-czaban-andy-pollin-gabrielle-ludwig/1762111/
@Casandraspeaks
What I was referring to is what bedevils us individually and collectively; paralysis of unified action.
The only person you believe you have control over is you and your outcome. But it's myopic, as you know; impotence to effect change from silence. IMO RadFems have done far more damage than the TG. This left an opening for the TG to dominate the agenda; to hijack it, which plays into the RadFems hand. Long before the TG came to play the dominant feminist deemed us unworthy to declare ourselves female.
Instead of pointing the finger why not make your own voice and message louder? This will require some serious organizing yet none here are willing. You cannot lobby for change from a blog posting. You've seen what happened to Ashley Love.
Back on topic Joy Ladin has allies the enabled this travisty of censorship. Where was the organized opposition to the censorship?
BlackSwan
I am happy with sitting by and watching the Tee-Gees and the RadFems destroy themselves.
It's not my fight, I have my life, I fixed my birth defect life goes on. I would rather deal with more pressing national issues like the economy and the united states destroying itself by fighting all these wars.
Watching the Tee-Gees fight with the RadFems is like watching 2 less than friendly schoolmates fight at a mall. It's enjoyable to see them make fools of themselves in public it makes me feel real good I am not a part of their silly and creepy lifestyles.
NYF
@BS
For those who got life in order, there is no change that needs to be effected. As such, the silence serves all that need be served. And of course, none of that has one whit of a tinker's damn to do with the censorship that Jay is trying to do to his wife (yes, if he is going to act male in the efforts to oppress Christine's work, then he can carry the other monikers as well).
It is unconscionable that the tee-gee brigade would try to shut down Christine's account of the marriage and the damage some middle-aged male who waits until he was tenured did to the family unit. Those interested in such discussions have every right to see it online and elsewhere.
Where is the organized opposition? Are you that blind? Forums such as this are one such place as was the outcry at places like Gallus' website. You certainly won't see it on the tee-gee websites because it gets in the way of their pink sparkly girly-girl view of magical unicorn land.
There was nothing 'transphobic' in the Kveller piece. But because it offended the mid-life crisis demographic, it was censored.
Quite frankly, I don't care about the 'damage' done to tee-gee's by 'radfems.' I may not agree with all of their positions, but I find them to generally be far saner in their positions than the tee-gee brigade. I tend to get along with a lot more of them as well. At least they call it like they see it and don't try to coddle the men playing basketball with young women or the men who get their kicks exposing male genitalia in locker rooms or, as we saw with Kveller, take umbrage with the men who would bring censorship efforts upon ex-wives who dare speak from experience.
And no this won't have a name publicly attached, so sign it simply as a voice of reason.
more of the, (icky), same...
http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=8544621986610962495&postID=99898525453923634
@BS 12/12/12 4:52p
How typical of you and your tee-gee brigadiers...when faced with reasoned statements, you ignore all of them and instead regurgitate someone else's printed vomit. It is very easy to see how Elizabeth came to have her fill of you on each occasion you were let back in the door.
I guess you also missed the fact that Cerullo had admitted in a different local article to not even having READ Christine's book. That's right- an alleged member of academia was criticizing the views of Christine without ever even READING the book in its entirety (something that you too appear not to have done).
I don't need to 'evolve' nor am I in fear of perishing...well, unless it turns out next week that the Mayans were correct, in which case we are all screwed.
MOST here got life in order. We aren't the ones tilting at windmills like the tee-gees. We recognize those like Ladin who continue to act like men as they censor those who dare to speak the truth about the damage the mid-life men in crisis do to families.
still...a voice of reason
@Anonymous December 12, 2012 11:49 AM:
Blogs are graffitti with punctuation. Unless your a personality they are pretty much useless lame ducks.
How do you balance your obvious conflict of interest with:
"Can a member of a dominant group (straight, white, cisgendered) write off the political implications of their own hateful language as being merely “personal” — particularly when they insert this language into the public domain in the form of a memoir or media interviews?"
and...
"What if a heterosexual author described a spouse who came out as gay as a source of “creepy” revulsion — again, due to their sexual orientation? Today, we would regard such texts as racist and homophobic. Must we wait 20 years to see Benvenuto’s depiction as transphobic?"
and...
"Consider a white author describing an African-American former spouse as, “creepy, dark and disgusting to behold,” specifically because they were African-American."
Family law matters shouldn't be barnicaled and bifurcated into political group hate speech, which IS deserving of censorship. And your reliance on the past (appeal to tradition) "Reagan-Bush PC" tropes to discredit nearly any critique of racism or sexism shows your antediluvian interlocutor. Trust me the world isn't flat anymore.
Source: http://www.gazettenet.com/opinion/columns/3302452-95/author-memoir-tracey-college?print=true
So, let me break your concentration camp; evolve or perish.
BS
@Anonymous 5:08PM
How male of you, recalcitrant in the face of a well reasoned argument.
Grace
So BS?
When are YOU going to come out of the closet? Time to shit or get off the pot isn't it? I mean if you really are dead set to be a transjactivist par excellence, well then do it! Own your past! Be proud of having been a penis owner! Stop lying about it when you are out there doing "your thing!" in Fact, why not show us by example what it means to be the trans-woman you seem to want us to be for you! After all, as you yourself said! Evolve or die! Well no time like the presence is there? Best get to evolving Hon!
MKIA
@ Grace AKA Loonie June
"Recalcitrant" = Having an obstinately uncooperative attitude toward authority.
Who is the supposed "authority" this anonymous person is allegedly supposed to give way too? BS? Or because BS is delivering transgender doctrine? Is Transgender the supposed "Authority here? Is transgender the "authority" because it is male? Is that it? I think so, I think that is your intent.
Well you can all take your fucking misogyny and shove it!
Cassandraspeaks
These are comments taken from an interview given by Joy Ladin.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2111574/Trapped-private-concentration-camp-Once-doting-Jewish-family-man-Joy-woman--heroine-transgender-community.html
When the walls of her 'private concentration camp finally collapsed' in 2005, Ms Ladin's wife refused to approve of what she saw as the destruction and erasure of their lives together.
'Most literature on transsexuality implies that there is a moral obligation for others to recognize the supremacy of the transsexual’s needs,' writes the professor.
But her wife was not like everyone else. Her 'courage' as a young adult to resist the moral decree that a woman should always put others' needs before her own - that had once been the object of her husband's admiration - now stood in the way of her acceptance of his true identity.
'Rather than swallowing her pain and focusing on my mine, she decided to fight for her life,' Ms Ladin explains in the book. 'If I had been faithless, she would be faithful.
'If I denied the reality of the man she loved, she would mourn and defend him.'
What a pompous arrogant and complete total piece of shit this bully is.
Never get in the way of a man and his dress.
"If I denied the reality of the man she loved,[and married] she would mourn and defend him."
This is what gets me! I have zero issues with Joy transitioning and I am NOT going to judge her on that account!
But! If Joy really is a female, then by God she should understand what it means to be female in this situation! That she, Joy, is in the wrong totally! Having lied most horribly to her former wife! That she took from her, her husband, her community status as a wife, the father to her children, why he even tried to take her sexual preference! Well of course she is angry! That is HER RIGHT!
Joy needs to back the fuck off and honor that anger! It is hers to own and HER'S to swallow, not the other way round... But then again, men never see it that way do they? Having been trained from birth onto expect subservience, they put on a dress and play girl but still expect "the real women" to swallow their pain! Bull Shit!
Kinda speaks volumes about how much of a woman they really are doesn't it?
Most people are selfish s@#ts. We honor and respect the selfless because they are so rare.
- an old aunty
I've just purchased Christine Benvenuto's memoir and reviewing it at the moment. Point of clarification: Isn't it true that Joy Ladin informed Christine Benvenuto that he identified as transsexual in college long before there engagement and marriage?
@BS
Jay Ladin said there were times he wished he had been born a girl. He never mentioned transsexual according to wife and he never cross-dressed during marriage.
It's painful to see this "charge" thrown out over and over again by Ladin and the closed-minded TG activists: that Ladin told his ex-wife from the very beginning that he was a she and so this is all Benvenuto's fault. What few understand and many are beginning to understand is that Ladin lies, constantly.
@Anon Dec 12, 2012 7:27 PM:
It appears you agree with this RadFem review. I've reviewed both books:
>>Consider a white author describing an African-American former spouse as, “creepy, dark, and disgusting to behold,” specifically because they were African-American.<<
"More like a white author describing a white former spouse now perpetually wearing blackface as, "creepy, dark, and disgusting to behold", specifically because they think they know what it's like to be black, and that IN FACT they are black *now* despite being white essentially their whole lives." From GenderTrender
http://www.amherstbulletin.com/artsleisure/2942204-95/benvenuto-husband-gender-book. Published Dec 5
http://www.gazettenet.com/opinion/columns/3302452-95/author-memoir-tracey-college?print=true. Published Dec 10
The problem is your claim the article's author Cerullo was not privy to the book prior to Dec 5, which is true. However, the article in question appears published on Dec 10, allowing plenty of time for Cerullo to review the book.
You can always spin a negative screed if you want to, but the "blackface" example is a false equivalent to racial struggle a priori. There is a better example.
Wait for it.....
@Black Swan
Joy Ladin condemns herself in every interview she gives. Comments implying the wife should support her husband because it is her duty and his pain his worse than hers. Also claiming most women support the spouse which is total bullshit.
Look, it is simple with you BS. You support everything the TG do and are basically an apologist for them regardless of their transgressions. Those of us that question them are transphobic, racist, etc. and you have called me all of those names and many more in the time I have allowed you to comment on my blog.
I am supporting Christine because I have an inkling of what she went through and I believe what she is writing is as truthful as she can recall because it is traumatic for a woman to go threw this.
Just for your information Cerullo has admitted he has not read it and has admitted he has no intention of reading it. There was nothing transphobic about the article that she was "asked" to write by an Editor at the Gazette and it was approved by all concerned for publication.
There is nothing transphobic in her book. It is an honest accounting of what happened to her from her perspective and she is certainly not claiming any higher moral ground. Her ex us the one that wants her words censored because it calls into question his self described heroism as an oh so brave transgender male bravely stepping forward to claim his real self when in fact he went behind her back with other women before he ever discussed this decision with her.
He was oh so brave but carefully waited until he was tenured at Yeshiva before coming forth. If he was brave he would have come forth but then he is typical of many late transitioning men.
His claims of suicide attempts as a child are total and complete bullshit. His claims that if he could not wear a dress he would die are typical of super transvestites but heck he is going to be one of your TG activist pals because he is not getting SRS from what I can tell.
I would suggest you take your TG apologist views and shove them up your ass but your head has been up there so long neither your ego or apologist views have room.
Read Ladin's essays where he says how brave he was walking the streets of NYC en femme risking being arrested and his position at Yeshiva. Of course he is too stupid to realize it is not illegal and he does not risk arrest but a hero needs his cause.
He claimed he took clorox bleach in a suicide attempt but eventually spit it out because he did not like the taste. It would not kill him but then he is a brave TG hero and stealing the narrative of those TS children that were suicidal makes for good copy. Also bleach would cause issues with irritation and blistering in the mouth but why worry about such details.
Now all that is left is for you Black Swan to be the heroine and out yourself and become another TG spokesman although somehow I do not believe you would be "ideal" as a spokesman and you know it.
@BS your entire screed, together with your completely unsubstantiated allegations have no basis in fact or, even reality.
IE: I never made any reference to Cerullo. At least TRY to get your facts straight. Your "arguments" *might* seem less ridiculous.
My postion stands. "Calling people racist/bigoted IS hate speech and a bully tactic used to silence those who dare to speak out against totalitarian control tactics exemplifed by this censorship...Only those agreeng with their bigoted hatred are included. Those that disagree are pilloried, demonized and silenced."
@ Anonymous December 12, 2012 5:08 PM or...
@ Anonymous December 12 2012 7:27 PM or...
@ Anonymous December 15 2012 12:54 AM
"Up the shut fuck YOU MUST" Yoda
Sign your posts and no cufusion with occur.
Face facts you position nor opionion stands AT ALL, nor carries any weight in the real world except in you little mind. Intolerance of Intollerance is accaptable Intollerance. Its very entertaiing seeig you rely upon Reagan-Bush PC tropes. ROTHFL at YOU!
@Elizabeth
My position is Cerullo could have read the book, she had time in my example. You are qouting an article that published 5 days before her position paper. Post a link to your source or make an appoitment with Yoda above.
Kveller had every right to censor what they beieved to be or came to believe to be hate speech, nothing you say here changes that fact, so none of your Anonymous arguments holds or stands or is authority. It has been decided by this Jewish publication that that don't want any part of Intolerance of Transgender people. What about that do you not understand?
Hilarious! "Intolerance of Intollerance is accaptable Intollerance." ~BS
Thank YOU. You have just substantated my "Anonymous arguments".
Or can it be that in your drug addled mind, "Calling people racist/bigoted IS (NOT??), hate speech and a bully tactic used to silence those who dare to speak out against totalitarian control tactics exemplifed by (you and), this censorship.
OR...that only "Those that agree with YOU are NOT are pilloried, demonized and silenced."
Keep trying BS. Since you cannot impress us with your 'brilliance', your feeble attempts to baffle us with your bulls**t, is most entertaining.
I'm just wondering who you think you are to attempt your bully boy tactics. None here are one of the men you toss around for a living. There simply was nothing hateful about anything Christine wrote Jay Ladin just didn't like male pronouns used in reference to him. Since Jay has no intention of SRS male pronouns are entirely appropriate in my view. Christine is the wronged party here not Jay.
It's you who needs to wake up Eve
Black Swan, I completely disagree with your views on this. While Kveller can make whatever editorial decisions it may chose to make, however, if they come about by a descent of hundreds of TG activist writing messages pressing a political correctness point, it becomes censure.
It is so interesting with Ladin, that he is neither disenfranchised in this divorce and the way it became about, nor is he disenfranchised in his life. Let's not forget he was an English professor at the Stern College for Women and has been for many many years, he continues to be in this position and now uses his position to disenfranchise not only Christine as a wife in an orthodox Jewish marriage but also denies and devalues the full weight of her anger over what befell her.
Anyone reading the article in the Huffington Post written by him with a critical mind, can see that it reinforces his view that his pain and struggle weighs more and in his view should weigh more than the pain he has caused Christine. When you look through the net he is described as the first transgender professor at an orthodox Jewish College. It is his banner. He describes his book in part about "attempting to save a strained (and then broken) marriage, and explores the process of transition in close detail". The entire sordid affair becomes "how to justify disenfranchising Christine’s life and devalue her struggles” to elevate myself in the eyes of the reading public.
The man who "became" a woman is incapable of owning his life and his life's consequences.
Kveller became a party to this because of a misguided sense correctness.
Looking at Ladin's life show me how he was persecuted as they claim he was. When he was placed on indefinite leave from the College after coming out to them his lawyer wrote a letter and he immediately was re-instated. He retained his positioned as a tenured professor. He told Christine that she could leave but without the children when the marriage broke. Because he has a tenured position it was she who had to stay in the valley with her ex about town. He has sacrificed nothing but his wife (and children) on the altar of his own self elevation.
Do you see how shameless he is? Your defense of his position is as misguided as Kveller censure.
I find myself in complete agreement with You Kathrine. I can see little if any virtue in the actionas of either Kveller or Ladin. Both are either weighted or tainted with the stench of misogyny. What does that say about Black Swan? Indeed what does it say?
Cassandraspeaks
" Any critical thinking or arguments to the contrary = transphobia punishable by immediate censor and sanction. This is a good thing--trust me."
~Black Swan
@Anonymous December 16, 2012 2:38 PM:
Oh please taking my argument out of context is spinning my statement. "It's hip to be Transgender now--no surgery required. Any critical thinking or arguments to the contrary = transphobia punishable by immediate censor and sanction. This is a good thing--trust me."
Read the entire post in context: Dec 12, 2012 11:54 AM
http://miz-knows-it-all.blogspot.com/2012/12/well-its-perfectly-lovely-sunday-so.html
showComment=1355342082846#c415128060777392942
The Transgender movement is entering it's populous stage, yet CasandraSpeaks is attempting to barnacle the popular feminist trope upon me with the overused; Is it misogyny? "What does that say about Black Swan?" This question is an argument derailer in the making--completely off topic.
My conclusions to my research into radical feminism as it applies to the Kveller censorship letter: I do this by taking on the phrase "I'm a feminist" wear it for awhile and see how it fits--does it fit with my egalitarianism? Not really working is it. How are we ever going to move on from saying 'I'm a feminist' and then having to quickly add 'I don't hate men'? Its not possible, man hating is throughout the curriculum. The same with the feminists view of transsexuals/transgenders. No political movement falsifies so much of its actual history and data to make one group look like oppressors and another the victims and legislates against the oppressor group, because it loves the group earmarked as oppressors; guilty for being born with a penis. Feminism is a hate movement in its post-populous stage. Now reeling and spinning misogyny tropes and cliche's for cover.
I have to say, this is really one of the reasons why I'm an egalitarian, not a feminist. Even though feminist culture would like to claim everyone that believes in the virtues of gender equality is by default a feminist, feminism is more then that. From the SCUM manifesto, to statements about transgendered women that positively would fit right in at a Nuremberg rally, 'womyn born womyn', to the unconscious misandry inherent in articles and books I have read. The subtext of feminism is inherently anti-men, or anything that used to have a penis.
@Kathryn: I'm being an advocate for Kveller: All I'm saying is Kveller has exercised good judgement in not taking sides in a family law matter; it's close community religious publication. The Ex-spouses in this case are free to write elsewhere. Christine can also write for the Huffington Post or other publication who so chooses to publish her. Both have written books and both can speak publicly as they so choose. It wouldn't surprise me if Joy Ladin's Huffington Post article was a response to Christine's "Sex Changes." I'm sure the book received a boost in sales due to this publicity.
A different thread could discuss the reasons why the Transgender mobilization against Christine Benvenuto. I offered some here. Kathryn you know very well if you would read Ms Benvenuto's book that its a character assassination of Joy Ladin (referred to as "Tracey" in the book) for being transgender. Ms. Benvenuto would be reticent to engage in moralist condemnations if Tracey were she of a different race, sexual orientation or acquired physical disability.
Black Swan
So you admit that your reaction to this is simply visceral. My way or the highway? I think what you just said means My Way! no options.
Where did I hear that last?
Well Anonymous #1 and Anonymous #2:
If I've engaged in a thought terminating cliche' the onus is upon you to identify it and prove-up that I used it inappropriately. So fare you have not. Thus you are engaging in "poisoning the wll/begging the question" attacks. Otherwise we'll go in circles.
I'm very open to any discourse that doesn't rely on PC Tropes that halt critical thinking on the subject of comparing racial, homophobia or bigotry to the said example.
I Haven't followed all the detailed arguments in this thread so please forgive me if I overstep on a few points.
First I would say to my very close friend Black Swan that I think Ladin is a typical male. He (or she) is trotting out the victim card when the victim in this is really the ex. You, BS, know my life story. Few do. I also know most of yours and you don't have the life experiences to be able to relate the dynamics of this specific set of circumstances. But, I respect your opinion. You see a wounded soul afflicted by an ex who is trans-phobic. I see a wife who discovered that the man of her dreams lied to her and was really female. For a woman that is a real catastrophic event. She is trying her best to describe it. My heart goes out to her.
To the rest of you who would criticize Black Swan I have a few words of advice. BS is a champion of those facing adversity. E may not always phrase things in the PC acceptable language but I assure you that BS has a heart of gold for the oppressed and condemned.
Why should I bother with these things? I believe each of us needs to understand that differences in perspective will always exist. We should not go to war over them but rather we should explore them and learn from each other.
Blessings to each of you during this season.
@BS
BS said: "Kathryn you know very well if you would read Ms Benvenuto's book that its a character assassination of Joy Ladin (referred to as "Tracey" in the book) for being transgender. Ms. Benvenuto would be reticent to engage in moralist condemnations if Tracey were she of a different race, sexual orientation or acquired physical disability."
I can guarantee you that Ms. Benvenuto's book is not a character assassination against Joy Ladin for being transgender. Ms. Benvenuto's book ends up being a description of the self-assassination of Jay Ladin's character by himself, during his transition. Ms. Benvenuto would be reticent and loathe to engage in moralist condemnations if Ladin were not an asshole.
@BS: You're like all the rest. You think you know Ladin or the situation or Benvenuto or her motives. You know nothing. What you write is just the latest form of masturbation for you.
@Black Swan
Lord, you are really pathetic. Her asshole ex husband runs around telling everyone how bad she "behaved" yet she has no right to write her own memoir stating her opinion? What a complete hypocritical nimrod you are.
You take his word as the gospel but her words are transphobic. Just a little history lesson. He was a man that married her, He was a man that fathered her children and no he never told her a thing about him being "transsexual" or cross-dressing because she never would have converted to Judaism and married him if he had and I believe her on that.
You have no life experience that allows you to relate to this woman. Have you ever been married to a man? I do not think so. Fucking some guy is not the same as a relationship. I find you so foolish that I almost want to ask do you have even the slightest clue what it means to live and works as a woman but then I know you do not.
You live in your fantasy world of Transgender Rights where anyone claiming they are women have the right to expose themselves in women's facilities because it is a learning moment. You do not fear men because quite frankly they fear you. It is not the same for 99.99% of us.
Now you support some self absorbed dickhead husband that transitioned in his 40's and claimed it was his wife's duty to support him because transsexual literature says she should. You both sound like freaking men and the sad part is I know you are a beautiful girl but you are most certainly not a women yet because you have not wised up.
Now you basically support book burning and censorship and claim family matters should stay in the courts so why didn't Joy Ladin leave them there because it was Joy Ladin that brought them forth and public but I guess the wife must grin and bear his slings and arrows because after all he was a man, actually still is and plans on staying that way.
You are a pathetic apologist for weak men but then that does work for you, doesn't it?
@Elizabeth, You are correct I have never been married and do not know what it is like to have a husband. There I'm at a loss. I transitioned in my mid-thirties and have had a more successful career as a woman than I had in my formal male life. However, it doesn't recuse my positions because I somehow don't have experience as a married person with regards to Kveller's censorship.
It may have been premature, yet I'm open to rational understanding why in the first chapter of "Sex Changes" its OK for Christine to characterize her then husband as creepy or ugly. She also wastes no time in declaring he lost his moral compass "seemingly devoid of moral bearings." This statement "I thought we were forever" tells me she doesn't have her head on strait when it came to reality.
Admittedly I'm not done with her book but this will be an interesting discussion for your next thread/topic. I now have Joy Ladin's book in my Kindle and will review them both. I have taken neither Benvenuto's nor Ladin's comments and prose as gospel. As I'm sure the rest of your comments will be addressed in the next topic thread. I already know the standard of truth your applying to Ladin--he's a liar by virtue of transitioning in his 40's and doing so while married to his wife. In your world what should Ladin have done that would not meet your ire?
@Kathryn, This isn't a zero sum game, nor is it "my way or the highway." I do take umbrage with being condemned for defending Kveller's position with the "your either with us or against us" policy. This isn't about book burning at all--that's overreaching.
@Black Swan
Well I was under the impression you transitioned earlier but now everything makes sense. You are another late transitioning know-it-all that is sure she has all the answers yet you have none and yes in some ways not having been a wife does recuse you from understanding Christine's position but I do not expect that will bother you. I cannot expect you to understand the bond and relationship that occurs in a marriage for a woman. Get a life and then talk about it because you talk about it like a man.
From her point of view as a wife in an Orthodox Jewish Marriage he did seem to have lost his moral compass and that is a valid view. He had an adverse result from whatever medication he was on and he was very sickly and he looked kind of weird as he had massive amounts of laser treatments with money the family could ill afford to spend.
Ladin is a liar based on his own words. From my viewpoint he could have done what many others in his position have done which is try and make it as easy for his wife s he could be he was an arrogant ass and it comes out in both his memoir and his interviews and writings.
If as he claims he knew he was transsexual and a cross-dresser before he married his wife why put a woman through that? Actually I have rarely heard a transsexual describe themselves as transsexual and a cross-dresser but then Joy was rather new at the new narrative Joy needed to be a transgender martyr and hero.
Were you married before you transitioned Black Swan? Did you have a serious boy-girl relationship before transition?
Regardless it is now apparent you are another mid life transitioner that after a few years playing girl thinks they have all the answers. You are a product of the Transgender community so I can see why you support them so vehemently regardless of what they do. They are you and you are them, one and the same. Makes your issues clearer to me.
You are clueless.
Do you need Ammo to hurt me, do you really want to make me cry ?
@Black Swan
Greta Culture Club song if you change that to "Do you really want to hurt me, do you really want to make me cry"? I could ask you the same thing BS but then you have really tried to hurt me, haven't you?
I actually find you very interesting now that I know a little more. Your positions make more sense. They are still wrong but I am sure in your mind they are valid.
By the way if I wanted to hurt you I would have published the blog comment from your "real" account you posted when you seemed to be in a confused state.
@Black Swan
Greta Culture Club song if you change that to "Do you really want to hurt me, do you really want to make me cry"? I could ask you the same thing BS but then you have really tried to hurt me, haven't you?
I actually find you very interesting now that I know a little more. Your positions make more sense. They are still wrong but I am sure in your mind they are valid.
By the way if I wanted to hurt you I would have published the blog comment from your "real" account you posted when you seemed to be in a confused state.
How reationary. This culter club.
To think she could ever hurt the monster.
Eve
@MKiA,,
The muse waxes you doesn't she? Transphobia is the crime against Ladin by portmanteau, thereby derivation ?other-phobia. All Liz needs to do is deny the crime and she is free to commit it. BTW that is denial.
Real people, real identification, anonymous .....Why? ....Who can hurt you?....No one can hurt you unless you let them.
............................... Happy Holidays.
Stephanie... Using a real name is what you TG dimwits do, forever outing yourselves as men in dresses to the whole world. Transsexuals are entirely different. We have no desire to jump up and down screaming "Look at me! Look at me!". The whole point of our transition is to blend into society as women, nothing more, nothing less. That is something you will never know nor understand, so don't hurt yourself trying to figure it out.
No Stephanie, we will not give you the pleasure of being able to ruin us like you and the other tee gees have ruined yourselves.
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