Friday, August 19, 2011

Sandeen had her orchiectomy and is now a woman?

Well all is good in the world of our transgender prince or is it princess Autumn Sandeen. She had her castration, oops orchiectomy , done by one Dr. Nguyen which according to Sandeen is very brave on hir part which I will actually agree with her on.

"I know a lot of gay and straight men who would shudder at the thought of having their testicles removed...it's a cringe worthy moment. But that's a difference between genital surgery for transsexual women and genital surgery for gay and straight men (such as losing one or both testicles due to testicular cancer). Transsexual women feel no sense of loss at having their genitalia reshaped, and most often feel joy, a sense of relief, and/or no significant emotional response at the loss of one's testicles and/or the inversion of the penis to create a vagina."
Of course the part Sandeen misses continually is the simple fact no gay or straight man would ever consider getting their balls cut off willingly unless they were insane which Sandeen sort of admits to or claims to be although I thought being bi-polar was a condition that could be controlled. Your genitalia were not reshaped Autumn they were kind of trimmed and it in no way qualifies as GRS unless you openly LIE to the State of California on your petition which I assume you have no problem doing.

Do you notice the another important message in this entire farce? I bet you will all miss it but I will clue you in again. Autumn does not mention the term transgender at any time in the article and refers to herself as a transsexual and considers getting her balls cut off "Gender Affirmation Surgery". Funny thing about that orchiectomy.  In the old days it was the first step before SRS or Sex Reassignment Surgery which is actually what facilitates or more accurately is  what Sandeen is implying she had. Actually I do agree that Autumn has Gender Reassignment Surgery" as in the acronym which is GAS.

Is it not convenient that Sandeen deems herself transsexual in order to get her birth sex changed when she is transgender forever. I wonder if the lesbians in the L part of GLBT will now accept her as one of them cause she got her balls removed. I bet they will all jump to her side telling her "now you are a woman" and welcome to the club. Well maybe not cause lesbians do have this thing about girls with dicks or men pretending to be lesbians as they like to call it.

Autumn has enough gas for everyone and if ever an acronym fit a scenario this one does. It takes a lot of balls, oops GAS, to claim getting your balls cut off makes you a female as Autumn says later in the article.

"Where I'm beginning to feel some emotion is at the reality that in my birth state of California, I'll now be able to petition the courts to change my legal sex, and once the petition is granted be able to change my name and sex marker on my birth certificate. Per the state of California records, I'll be a female-born-female. That is an wondrous, amazing, and welcome outcome I'm really, really looking forward to.

So the short term "ow" is for long term benefit on so many levels, the most important benefit in my mind being the soon government recognition that my female gender identity is my sex...that I'm a woman. That gets a 'Yay!" from me."

No Autumn Sandeen you are not a woman.  You are still just a rather sick penis packing no balls whatever in a dress but thankfully not wearing those silly berets any longer. Transsexual women or Women Born Transsexual do not willingly keep their penis and claim their insanity makes taking care of a penis easier than taking care of a new vagina. Please read an earlier article where Sandeen claimed that as an excuse for not having surgery.

Here is the link to what-genital-reconstruction-surgery-and-when.



Here is the link to the full article or  I got my balls cut off so I am now legally female.

Now many of you will read this and see it as nasty and an attack on Sandeen and in many ways you are correct.  What it really is is an attack on the lunacy of this kumbaya where I as a Woman who was once transsexual am required to accept this as just another form of transsexualism and accept this clown as one of us. Well making oneself a eunuch without the intention of completing SRS is rather a foolish concept but there is something more insidious behind this and everyone needs to be warned.

This is just another attempt to redefine what a woman is or more importantly what a Woman Born Transsexual is. Sandeen and the Transgender crowd will parade this imbecile around like she is a new hero with hir fraudulent California birth certificate which will eventually find its way into the hands of certain groups and used against us. They will see this fool as a representative of what is transsexual and it will scare the shit out of them.

I would hope that anyone that lives in California would write to the State of California and ask if this is what they intended with the legal changes made there.  I cannot believe it was. What was intended for post-operative transsexuals to ease their burden and give them some freedom from accusation will now mean NOTHING because they will all ask "well we know you can still have a penis" and get your birth certificate changed.

Welcome to the new transgender forever world where one will have to drop their linen and keep on grinning to prove they are women. Welcome to the new world of Women Born Transsexual. It is enough to make one puke.

207 comments:

1 – 200 of 207   Newer›   Newest»
Teagan said...

A comment on birth certificates. I was born in the state of New York, and I admit to at first being a little chagrined that one of the requirements to get the birth certificate corrected was not only a letter from one's surgeon, but also the actual surgeon's notes taken during the procedure itself. It seemed like a bit much. I realize now why they have included that requirement.

Not your friend said...

The only way Sandeen can change the sex marker on "her" birth certificate in California is through fraud.

Sandeen has always been able to change the name on her birth certificate with a simple form amending the birth certificate.

Note to Autumn
In case you didn't know men have penises
Woman have vaginas.
You are neither.

Dawn1257 said...

No Elizabeth. You are not "required to accept this as just another form of transsexualism". You can go on just the way you are. Everyone will understand quite clearly that you don't.

And, before you jump down my throat, I do not agree with the issue either. It is a firm belief that the only proper method to obtaining a BC with a corrected sex marker should be by an amalgamation of evidence. Among the evidence, proof of actual vaginoplasty verification through a surgeons statement in the case of MTFs. And in the case of FTMs, it would need to go a bit farther in my mind. Just getting top surgery to me is no different than just getting an orchy to qualify.

I understand the cost differences involved. It's by far more of a financial burden to FTMs. But it's the integrity of a process, a system, and people that is ultimately at stake here.

Anonymous said...

Lesbians do accept Autumn as a person the real question your asking are they sexually compatible?

She Said...

Elizabeth said...

@Dawn

Do I perceive bitterness in your tone Dawn? Maybe a sarcastic tone? You make me feel badly. NOT!!

Sandeen has long since held any right to claim transsexuality. She would brush the term under the rug and remove it forever or make it a pejorative. She was in favor of and supported the insanity of making transvestite a pejorative. Tranny is a pejorative only because tranny always meant transsexual and not transgender.

Now in a fraudulent attempt to get a female birth certificate while still possessing and more importantly "wanting" a penis Sandeen suddenly decides to call herself a transsexual. She does not use trans or transgender or transgendered but transsexual and there is a reason for that. I will let you guess the reason.

@She Said

Sandeen is a person because despite some doubts initially I will admit she is a member of the Homo sapiens species. After that all bets are off for someone who defines themselves as "transgender forever" among many things.

My lesbian friends would be appalled at anyone claiming to be a lesbian but still packing a penis. I doubt seriously any lesbian would accept someone with a penis as lesbian but I actually have learned to never say never as a Research Engineer over the years.

Dawn1257 said...

Elizabeth,

I'll leave the guessing game to those who claim to be psychic. I don't play those games. Ohh, no sarcasm, and no bitterness either. Uumm, maybe a little antipathy. But not too much.

The issue your writing about, is it really all about Ms. Sandeen? Personally, do you see her as being relevant to the real issue? Because myself, I really don't have much of an opinion of her. Or, is it, as I would interpret it to be, a broader question of how this process of altering a BC with such minimalism as an Orchy is a truly damaging example of how to bring more disparage to people with transsexualism overall?

As for lesbian friends. I have some, too (I know, you're shocked, aren't you)! One who is a well known national public speaker and is married to a (FTM) man. You suppose their in a hetero relationship? I wouldn't tell her that! And why the hell does it even matter anyway?

Dawn1257 said...

Oh yeah, her husband; he's post-op too.

Anonymous said...

I had an orchidectomy and I am legal female according to the SSA. Besides she was a woman before the surgery. As all transwomen are.

Elizabeth said...

@Dawn

Poor Dawn why would i be surprised you have a lesbian friend? I expect you would not have much of an "opinion" on this subject because if one can claim womanhood with a simple castration then that could be of benefit to you in the long term if you decide not to have surgery.

If I need to explain to anyone, including you, why it is both ingenuousness and bad manners actually to change a birth certificate to say female when the individual still has a penis then the concept of male-female becomes useless but then that is what it is all about isn't it.

You yourself claim to be a woman yet you have no experiences as a woman. Just how does that work? I am a woman because I say I am? Maybe these fool can claim to be genderless and we must accept that or maybe someone can claim they are a dog and you can accept that and call them "fido" from now on.

As for your lesbian friend if her "husband" has had surgery then she is now a man and they are in a heterosexual relationship. What is difficult to understand about that? Isn't it quite disingenuous of you to claim she is now not a man?

And by the way yes it does matter but then I would never expect some late transitioning nitwit like you to understand that. Like most fools you think you understand everything about being a woman because you played one on weekends and now being full-time brings expertise.

Why am I not surprised you commented thusly.

Elizabeth said...

@Anonymous

Social Security only requires a name change and a name change and an orchiectomy do not qualify as a sex change. Maybe in your fantasy world it does but it should not in the real world but unfortunately there appear to be more fools than expected.

Sandeen has never been a woman. If one was to give her some form of transsexualism she would qualify as a pre-operative transsexual and that does not qualify one as either a female or a woman.

As for your silly comment about "trans-women" all being women you should supply hip boots because that is a lot of bullshit to be slinging around. Wearing a dress does not make one a woman which you imply with that comment. Does your trans-woman comment include cross-dressers and transvestites since trans-women is a transgender construct?

Because one is in a dress is not qualification for calling oneself a woman. I will assume you are transsexual so your orchiectomy just means you are a pre-operative transsexual until you have sex reassignment surgery. Women do not have a penis although I gather you believe they do or can.

I would gather you amongst most in the transgender community would like to stretch the term so woman includes anyone that claims they are. It is really not much different than my gay friends saying "girlfriend" to a gay friend of theirs. Just because they say girlfriend does not make them a girl.

Political correctness stretches credulity often enough and this is just another such case.

Miz Know-It-All said...

Elizabeth...
Girl? I thought you were way smarter than that! Don't you by now know that speaking the truth on the internet draws the nutters like flys? Shoo, you there shoo... stop it! Stop humping my leg... yes yes... you are a girl... a pretty pretty girl! Now would you PLEASE stop humping my leg?

Where was I? Oh yes! Maybe it's life imitating art! Quantum stupid being replicated in the macroverse so that nutter becomes the title that Miz-dur (hey I kinda like the hyphen thing!) Sandeen can now claim in a whole new way! Yeppers... Just when you think "they" cannot possibly get any weirder... they does!

@ Dawn... I'm going to type this real slow so you can follow along... OK?

Society politely gives the preop-transsexual the honorary title of female... That the honorific of female was bestowed does not for one second mean that anyone thinks a pre-op transsexual is anything other than male until after they have had surgery! What's more my pet... Surgery is just the start! Now I'm gonna type E-X-T-R-A slow here cause this is important... After surgery they still have to prove themselves to be women! Yes dear you ain't a woman until you can cut it in the real world with the big girls!

Oh and for the record "trans-woman" is one amazingly stupid term! I mean come on Dawn, was your public education really that bad? Didn't you ever open a dictionary in school? Trans and woman stuck together and then applied to self would mean you are in the process of becoming anything other than a woman... Ohhh... I get it! Thats your point isn't it... Okie Dokie! Never mind... you just go right on being a trans-woman all you want! But would you be ever so kind as take this fool humping my leg when you go?

Thanks Dear!

Miz Know-It-All said...

Oppsie! My bad! That was directed at Anonymous! But hey, if the shoe fits...

Not your friend said...

By the way Miz Know-It-All,
the Obama administration is trying to get a law passed to make telling the truth ANYWHERE a felony, especially on the Internet.

Dawn1257 said...

@Elizabeth,

Second version.

You're not going to make this about me, again.

You know, I learned something from a news report yesterday. It was about Paula Deen and her more than gracious response to Anthony Bourdain's critique of her cooking. Now, there's a lady with class. When she had every right to come back on him and start a war of words over their differences and the things he said about her, she took the high road and didn't reduce herself to his lowness. A sign of a "True Woman". One with class. A lady, indeed!

You see being a woman is not 'just' about having "sex". As apparently you all think. It's not about walking down the street and waiting for a "potential mate" to ogle you and cat call you. It not about this b/s cat fighting that you seem to enjoy. That's more in line with trailer park trash on the Jerry Springer Show. You're not that, are you?

Being a woman - in part - has to do with doing what's right in the face of a repressive and offensive force. In this case, your's. So, in that regard, have it your way, Elizabeth. Think what ever your heart wishes. I know the truth about me, and that's all that really counts in the end.

May you find peace. I know I have.

p.s. Miz Know-It-All, the same applies to you.

Anonymous said...

@Miz Know-lt-All

Since when is the title "female" considered honorary?

FYI The vast majority of Americans, and I'll write real slow for you, consider post operative M2F still male.

FYI2 I was actually considering F2M transition and just had to learn to accept my butch dyke look. I'm not TS. I just love to wear the guy look with my "packer" on.

@Elizabeth

Remember "your lesbian friends" do not equal the total lesbian population, nor is it a proper sample to driaw upon for a conclusion. You conclustion would be a false one based on sample bias.

Keep in mind the vast majority of lesbians don't enter into the gender political argument(s). The radfems (minority of the 2nd wave feminists) are an insignificant minority now, "if you don't bleed you can't be" Janice Raymond crowd. Anything TS to them is still male. Why not ask your lesdian friends what they think of post-op TS woman--would they date one?

FYI The largest group in the LGBT are the Bi, and keep in mind that if a lesbian couple is being honest a phallus does enter the picture during play time. Both Bi men and women find a non-op TG, young and pretty very desirable.

This is where my thesis statement comes from about LT regrets, and
best practice theory. I don' t care about the independant variable "intensity" juxapposed to type of TSity you are. Whether you are hi intensity or low intensity LTs suffer for the rest of their life with bitter regrets. The only solution is early Dx; the only solutions as bared out are in the outcomes in the Dutch study. This is off topic but worth the mention.

She Said...

Anonymous said...

One more thing the medical profession doesn't get into these political debates. We are treating a body not a type of TS, TG, non-op or post-op. We really don' t care what you look like. Your issue with Autumn has more to do with you than her.

She Ssid...

Elizabeth said...

@Dawn,

Nobody wants anything to be about you Dawn. You are a pre-operative transsexual which means you know nothing about life as a woman and should just STFU and actually find your peace.

Whenever one makes a comment one makes it about themselves if they express a viewpoint and take a position. Your problem is your express a viewpoint and take a position and worse yet express knowledge about something you have no clue about.

Not your friend said...

@ She said

"FYI The vast majority of Americans, and I'll write real slow for you, consider post operative M2F still male."

I guess you don't get out much, I don't know what box of cerial you obtained your credentials from, and I really don't care. What you know about how the real world sees those of us who have corrected our birth defects obviously comes from your life in a gay ghetto.
For those of us who live in the mainstream the mainstream sees us as female, perhaps you should get out more.


"FYI2 I was actually considering F2M transition and just had to learn to accept my butch dyke look. I'm not TS. I just love to wear the guy look with my "packer" on."

To each his or her own.

I'm just wondering what qualifies you to come across with some veneer of authority regarding my birth condition? The more I read of what you post the more I feel compelled to question who or what you are.
Don't take it personal, I know I'm not the only one here with those feelings.

Elizabeth said...

@She Said

ROFLMAO. So at one time you were considering FTM transition but learned to accept you were a butch dyke lesbian. Good for you. Sorry about laughing but it means I won a small bet with a friend about you. Nothing like an aggressive butch dyke claiming to tell the truth about transsexuality. NOT!!!

Elizabeth said...

@She Said

My lesbian friends are my friends first and lesbian second and quite honestly they fully understand the young MTF transsexual that is a heterosexual girl in their heart and soul. They are squeamish around men now claiming to be lesbians whether they are post-operative or not who do things late in life. The term I often hear is "icky" but then I know so few lesbians and no "radfem" ones either or more accurately any that know of my past.

Actually just for a clarification for you, I will write slowly because this is a print medium, most Americans have never had any trouble with those of us that have surgery young and did not fuck over some woman by marrying them and fathering x children and then at 55 claim they were always women and thus transsexual. Those are the transsexuals that people look at and laugh at.

Late transitioners are like a plague of locusts eating up all the resources and causing prices to rise because the product cannot get to market yet none of them will answer the question. How did you make it so long?

The bullshit will get high and hip-boots will be required because the answers are laughable and then along comes some so-called Butch Dyke lesbian claiming to be a student studying us and makes a complete and utter fool of themselves while spewing the transgender crap about "we are all the same" and refusing to look at legitimate studies and research, such as Benjamin and the Dutch, while professing some ludicrous concepts. Welcome to Academic Narcolepsy.

Of course late transitioners suffer in some form or another but the intensity of the transsexuality they were cursed with is certainly relevant yet you claim it is not. LT regrets are the regrets of people that now "claim" they would have transitioned early if given the chance which is absolute BULLSHIT and just another example of learning a narrative and applying bits and pieces of others together to cobble together a story to get sympathy and obtain surgery. Well just to be accurate here I now "claim" that they are mostly full of shit.

If they claim they would have done it early then why did they not transition when they were in their twenties like many do that were crushed by their families? Why did they not do it in the 30's. Why wait until so late? What excuses do they use for that? Well I was married and had a wife and children is the normal lament.

My question would be other than trying to hand me the bullshit line about family and children would be why they marry and father children in the first place? The claim they thought it would help them fit in only covers the first few years of marriage. What about the last 20 or so years which was truly a conscious decision?

The simple truth is those transsexuals that somehow finish this horrid journey before they are 35-40 are most likely true transsexuals as many of them claim. The later ones have many amongst them that are as transsexual as a fencepost.

These fools regret not having the courage to do anything when they were in their teens. They regret not having the courage to do something throughout their lives that has to do with one thing, which is being able to dress as a girl.

In most cases these are not the regrets of transsexuals but of pathetic old transvestites that no longer get a sexual charge out of dressing thus the "asexual" claims.

Sandeen is attempting to commit a fraudulent act by claiming SRS or GRS has taken place. The new definition of GAS, fits Sandeen since Sandeen is full of it, implies that even getting implants qualifies a man as female even if he still has a penis. Actually it qualifies him as a man with breasts or maybe a she-male. In Sandeen's case it qualifies Sandeen as a eunuch or maybe more accurately a fetish eunuch transvestite that is mentally ill and claims it will be easier for him to maintain a penis than a new vagina. What he actually means is it makes it easier to stand up and pee on trees like the rest of the men he hangs around.

Not your friend said...

@ Elizabeth
She said writse like Monica Helms.

Not your friend said...

Correction
She said writes like Monica Helms.

Anonymous said...

@Elizabeth

(Bowing) Proud lesbian thank you very much.

I'm not into believing your cursed, too religeous for my taste, just a biological adaptation to environmental stimuli when you were in your mothers first trimester of gestation.

I've read the Dutch study and its clear that three-quarters of gender dysphoric children will eventually have SRS. How do you account for the one-qaurter that do not?

Lets begin by calling PUBERTY the line between ETs and LTs. Staying with M2Fs for clarity sake. Given the medical professions systemic reluctance to treat an ET (average age 12-14) before puberty this will create a confounding factor for patients who must wait until 18--failure to pass creates a reluctance to transition. Agree or disagree? Please explain from your experience.

BTW Given specific specs on very young M2Fs I am for castration however my colleagues cringe at this due to the numbers of children that revert back to behavoir consistent with their birth gender. Great for them, no loss for them , but puberty-delaying drugs are nowhere near as effective for core TS. How do you account for those children who revert to male behaviour? More than 50%?

Between 1997-2007 300 patients (M2F and F2M) were treated T Childrens Hospital LA, from 2007 to present the numbers have doubled, yet the population has not doubled in LA accordingly.

Keeping the numbers nice and round this leaves us with 300 unaccounted cases (kids) now after 18 that will wait till the pain is too great before they become LTs with the bitter regrets aforementioned. These numbers exceed Harry Benjamin's predictions. Keep in mind this is Hollywood and very progressive. How do you account for the untreated cases?

Wouldn't you agree that its BEST PRACTICE to have a child transition at home than for them to run away on the streets?

Wouldn't you agree that its BEST PRACTICE to foster an environment socially and politically that allows more freedom of expression so a young child (accepting parents obsererving) to explore their cross gender feelings?

I don't even get to PRACTICE until a child has those boundaries removed by the parents. The child who is core TS will push boundaries, but its not till they are removed by the accepting parents that I have a patient to treat who is an ET.

Do you really believe sexuality is the driving force behind the 7-8 year old boy or girl in all cases?

Deena said...

OK, can we get back to Autumn? My perception and I could be wrong, is that Autumn is damaging both the TG and Ts populations. Let me be blunt. Autumn is narcissistic. Autumn wants the stage.

I harbor Autumn no ill will but I am tired of what Autumn is doing. From my perspective Autumn is alienating mainstream voters. She is becoming the poster child for why hetero-normative society should reject anyone "not completely normal".

Sorry if I offend anyone but that is just the way I see it.

Elizabeth said...

@Anonymous

There is not a single thing any lesbian should be ashamed of so I am confused by the comment.

You need to rewrite the next paragraph since it is incomprehensible. Actually it is bullshit but I was trying to be nice.

There are many cases where the children thought they were suffering from transsexualism and realized later they were not. Whether it was an issue of a parent pushing an effeminate boy or a masculine girl or just the fact the child was confused it happens. It is one of the issues with letting children transition so early. Those that are transsexual will stay the course, the others will not. It has been that way since day one.

Puberty is absolutely not the demarcation line for early transitioners. It is an arbitrary point chosen by those that know nothing of this condition like yourself. Early transition from my time indicated anyone that managed to get through this nightmare as an MTF before they were too old which could be up to 35 or so because there was no information in the 50's and 60's.


I would suggest that if many of these MTF teenage children revert to male behavior that the medical profession is even more inept than it was 50 years ago or maybe doctors and therapists and shrinks are too quick to diagnose someone as trans, money is a good purpose, verses transsexual who are the only ones that should transition early. All I know is I have been involved with 10 kids we started with between 10-12 and several later and none of them returned to male behavior but then we know a transsexual when we meet one and you have no clue.

I do not believe castration should be an option for children and I actually find it hideous. The problem is the process is flawed because it is a one process fits all and even poor Harry Benjamin back in the dark ages knew we are all different in our own ways and treated each patient differently. Castration is not necessary with blockers.

The problem is most doctors force kids to wait for hormones until they are 18 in the USA unless one can find a Physician that has his head out of his ass and recognizes a transsexual. A Type VI transsexual will NEVER turn back which is something you and your kumbaya colleagues will never understand. Even a moderate intensity Type V will never turn back once they reach the breaking point and today that breaking point is NOT 55.

Personally I would not trust anyone such as you to determine what a core transsexual is because basically I think you are clueless about it. You have bought into the kumbaya of the transgender all are one mantra and you mistake transvestites for transsexuals. By the way the non transsexuals are the ones that decide not to continue on just to enlighten you.

continued...

Elizabeth said...

@Anonymous or She Said

The increase in numbers is only relevant if there was a large increase in the number of actual transsexual children. I would gather the transgender umbrella program is catching a a lot of transvestite and cross-dressers that are confused about themselves. It was not much different for Dr. Benjamin only I would guess a lot more transvestites are showing up. I am sure that is just as confusing to them at that age.

Are you saying 300 kids were given the options for help and refused it and went on with a male life and you are now trying to tell me they will be late transitioners? Are you totally out of your fucking mind???

Does that not fly in the face of all your LT friends that "claim" they "regret" not having the chance to transition or get help young? That is kind of a contradiction but then logic is not a strong point for the transgender support crowd. Will they then claim regret and repression because they were not "forced" to accept help?

Just a little clue about the world of children and transsexuals. All of our kids transition young and are open about it with their fellow students. Universally the only problems outside a few nitwits is parents and universally if we can get the pissed off parent to sit down with the transsexual child they are won over. They are simply girls and people see it. It is almost stupidly simple.

Kids will not be so sympathetic for trans John who likes to wear female cloths one day and male the next. It is a little much for the other kids in general. Kids dress weirdly all the time nowadays. My stepdaughter had me in a full lather by the time she was 13 but it is what kids do. Androgyny is kind of in. Goth is around. There are plenty of ways for kids to express themselves. I am not sure school is a good place for Johnny to decide if he is Johnny, Joan, or Sandeen. If a kid wants to push boundaries they can but they push the boundaries with other kids. I would hope other kids would leave them alone but only transsexual children are crossing the boundaries of sex identity. Under no circumstances would I ever want to see a child harmed over any of this crap. Gender anything when young is just not a whole lot of fun.

I never said it was the driving force behind 7-8 year old boys so do not try and put words in my mouth. In point of fact not ONE of the kids we have shepherded through this process transitioned before 12. I feel if a boy is willing to transition that young by the time they reach puberty they will know what they want and they can more easily socialize as girls. The ones that are not transsexual will know and stop.

Harry Benjamin recognized the sexuality impact on young transsexuals in the many he treated. I was the second early teen he had but he treated a lot of Type VI that were in their early 20's and had escaped the throws of family repression and we like boys because we were teenage girls with the wrong bits. I had the same urges and desires as any teenage girl and Harry and my mom would attest to that problem but then I had to be a complete girl which was the other issue.

Children's Hospital LA is trying to do the best they can under the rules they enforce. I disagree with not allowing cross sex hormones early but that is my belief. I did notice they said they have 100 youngsters under care in the range of 10-25 which i think is a much wiser age range.

Where did the 600 ET number come from for 2007 to 2010? Oh well I guess you are not good with numbers either.

Not your friend said...

Deena

Sandeen is a narcissistic exhibitionist Sandeen isn't happy without being in the spotlight. This seems to be true as long as Sandeen isn't crippled by deep depression.
It is highly doubtful that Sandeen could get the necessary letters to satisfy an American surgeon and maybe not even one of the low end surgeons in Thailand.
I agree with you on the subject of the harm Sandeen is doing to Tee-Gees and women of operative history.

Anonymous said...

@Elizabeth

100 Is current and consistant just this year. They receive many referrals regionally.

Anonymous said...

Sandeen a woman" Not unless hell froze over and the Sun just rose in the West!!!

Leigh said...

"FYI The vast majority of Americans, and I'll write real slow for you, consider post operative M2F still male." .... she said

This statement coming from a self defined butch dyke lesbian is just incredulous! What the hell would a dyke lesbian know from lived experience about what "the vast majority of americans" think about post corrected M2F transsexuals ???

What you may know about is what

"The vast majority of LESBIAN Americans"

think about the post op M2F's they have personally come into contact with in the gaybourhood's where for a very large part of those early pre'ops, non'ops, crossdressers and gender queers of the mostly gay affiliated transgender variety, congregate on a friday night, and for the most part are considered still male and will be considered male even after some of them have surgery.

The fact is that nobody can tell if someone has or has not had SRS unless that person has made it public knowledge, and therefore all suspects are treated the same, in that they are all considered to be pre-op, and thus "still male".

MTF Transsexuals that are post surgical and not trying to pass off and live in the gay and lesbian community, that have moved into mainstream society, that do live a normal everyday life in mainstream, are considered by the vast majority of americans to be just another woman, and to say it isn't so is just ignorance of the lives of many thousands of post op's that have done just that.

I am with liz on this one. The ignorance projected by those that comment here is astounding! People like Dawn and she said, those that have little or no real life experience of the true transsexual condition other than what they read in books or are fed by the transgender liars and revisionists, those that have the nerve to come in and tell those few of us that have lived this life full time for 30+ years, that we are full of shit, should just STFU. I don't care if you are a late transitioner, a passing lesbian dyke student or an australian crossdressing aboriginal, don't presume to preach to those of us that have walked the walk for more than half their lifetime, when you havn't even gotten to first base.

Sandeen, Helms and Roberts, are not Transsexuals. They are not even good actors! They will always be considered male no matter how many surgeries they have or what they present as, because it's not hard to tell the difference between the real deal, and a well created fake. All you have to do is rub the surface and the veneer comes right off!

.........and there I was gonna just quit arguing with fools .. oh well

Elizabeth said...

@Leigh

Most of these people are walking and talking prime examples of the great politically astute comment that you cannot legislate against stupid or that you cannot teach stupid it is something you have to work at yourself and they have mastered the art.

I wonder if Sandeen will brag he has a 4 inch neo-clit like Roberts brags he has a 7 inch neo-clit. For you uniformed they consider their penis to be an overlarge clitoris under the assumption their legions of stupid followers will swallow it. Actually they might really swallow it both figuratively and literally which is a creepy thought.

Anonymous said...

@Leigh....Thank you, for again hitting the nail. precisely on the head. Very well said.

Sandeen got castrated and is now a "feminized" eunuch.

"shesaid" is a bulldyke with an agenda and an over inflated ego.

NEITHER of them have even the REMOTEST clue of what it is really like living as a REAL woman, in the REAL world.



Anne

Elizabeth said...

@Sandeen

Did you take your balls home in a jar? It would make a great center piece on your coffee table or possibly you could shrink wrap them and make some "ball" earrings to impress your friends.

Anonymous said...

There is a solution for you. You can file an Amicus brief objecting to Autumn's name and gender change petition in court, formal legal writing with a Memorandum of Points and Authorities. Without doing so this is just unproductive complaining. AND IF YOU DON'T DO SO SITTING ON YOUR ASS FORFIETS THE VALIDITY OF YOUR OBJECTION?

(Munching popcorn)

Elizabeth said...

@Anonymous

Which of course would require me to disclose my identity. Oh how convenient for the out and proud club. As for some flunky like you any objection you make proves my posts and comments strike home.

Actually I have sent an email to the State of California so we will see how that works. I am also sending emails to all the members of the California House and Senate asking them if this is what they meany by the law.

My guess is this is either our Butch Dyke friend or She Said but I am leaning to our butch Dyke She Said.

I gather then you are in agreement with Sandeen that getting castrated makes her female and allows a birth certificate change. You have to love the kumbaya all for one calling. You clowns take stupid to new lows.

Elizabeth said...

@Anonymous

Just thought I would add you encouraged me and I have sent an email with links to Sandeen's posts and the California law as it currently sits to all the major news organizations in California.

Hopefully someone will jump on this story because Sandeen has conveniently documented her attempt to defraud the state of California.

Andrea Rosenfield said...

Already checking the SD County Superior Court, Civil Division, for the NC-300 ex parte filing to appear. Once a case number is assigned, briefs can be filed. I'll post again when this happens, if people are really interested in doing this. And there's no need to shout, Anonymous.

Ex parte hearings are rather informal; anything clear, cohesive, and legible is perfectly fine. This isn't a constitutional case, you're not a lawyer, and the Judge does not expect you to be one.

You need only reference the existing standard (“Gender reassignment" is when a person has his or her sexual characteristics surgically altered to those of the opposite sex”), and give your reasons for being concerned that the standard has not been met. Document your concerns (Sandeen's own relevant public statements will do nicely) and the Judge will take it from there.

Personal attacks and righteous rants are NOT helpful; save that for the blogs. (They're not hurtful either, they're simply irrelevant.) Stay calm, be rational, and don't say "fraud" or anything like that; accusations of criminal conduct submitted to a Judge in writing are not taken lightly. You don't want to go there, trust me.

You do not have to disclose WHY you care, just THAT you care. Nobody needs to "out" themselves. Better that you don't; really the issue here is:

"Birth certificates are legal documents that must be able to hold up in any court, unchallenged as to their accuracy and reliability."

Everybody in the State of California has reason to be concerned about that.

Liz, I'd be very interested in what response (if any) you get from Sacramento regarding the original legislative intent. The hell of it is, there's pending legislation (AB-433, be very afraid) that would eliminate the surgical requirements. All Sandeen had to do is wait through the next Legislative session and this kerfluffle might not even have been necessary.

Though while you're on the horn with Sacramento anyway, might as well express that you oppose AB-433 for removing the surgical requirement. (The out-of-state filing allowance is OK; it closes a Catch-22 situation that really does need to be addressed. That's the legitimate concern that the female-penis brigade has chosen to use as a Trojan Horse this time. I can elaborate if you'd like.)

Happy to help. Can I have some of your popcorn, Anonymous? All this typing makes me hungry.

Not your friend said...

Andrea have some of my popcorn.

Keep us posted.

Andrea Rosenfield said...

*crunch* *crunch* *crunch*

Thanks, Not Your Friend. You're a real... um... friend?

Anonymous said...

There is a requirement to publish her petition in the legal notice section of a local newspaper. My brief is written--is yours?

@Andrea

Gotta a fresh bag of Orville. Want some?

This is going to be good.

Elizabeth said...

@Andrea,

It is why I went to the media. I am guessing or at least hoping that one of the outlets will pick up the story and expose the public to the truth about what is going on and the ramifications of using transgender vs transsexual in legislation.

AB-433 will be defeated if the truth comes out. If not then the meaning of female is mute and the women with penis crowd wins and that is a possibility.

Not your friend said...

Here ya go
http://www.sdcourt.ca.gov/portal/page?_pageid=55,1056880&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL
We can keep an eye out here, I have a friend who lives within walking distance of the Hall of Justice.

Andrea, it goes like this.
If you are anything but Tee-Gee I am your friend. :)

Elizabeth
We will just have to start calling them what they are, Winos. Because they are Women In Name Only.
(WINO)

Andrea Rosenfield said...

@NYF: Thanks, *crunch*. I have fizzy water and blueberry syrup if you want to make a soda.

It's pretty much complete, just waiting to put a date and a case number on it, and for the address of the courtroom. (And of course, for Sandeen to say anything else useful in the meantime. Really, Sandeen wrote most of the opposition brief. They really are their own worst enemies, these TGs.) I'm having dinner with a lawyer tonight and will make sure I've dotted my Is and crossed my Ts, so to speak. This is good practice.

The beauty of these NC-300s not requiring publication, is that Autumn won't know all the counter-arguments until asked about them in Court, on the record. Too bad they don't let you eat popcorn in there! (I might have to show up for this one. I've been looking for an excuse to take the Coast Starlight, it's a lovely ride I hear. Got a couch?)

@LIz: Right there with you. Good on you for doing this; a legal reporter in San Diego would have time to sit on the docket and call it out the moment it shows up (if it does at all; Autumn does seem to enjoy fire drills).

But even if it's a fire drill, it's a way to get AB-433 into discussion. That bill is OK as far as letting people from out-of-state, in places where no legal gender-change order is available, file for the order remotely in the County of birth without having to move back and re-establish California residency to do it. THat makes sense, it's the usual TG trickery of sneaking their willies in behind women's skirts that I can't abide. If their argument is so good, why do they feel the need to hide it behind something else?

Not your friend said...

While we have a couch we also have 4 very protective does, since 1 of them bit the cable guy 10 years ago we don't have strangers over. Blueberry syrup and fizzy water sounds great, may I?

The link over on Pan's Transvestite Blend to the count calender was removed by the way. I suppose Autumn's sock puppet book worm ate it.

Someone over there is staying on top this protecting Sandeen, how sissy like that can be?
There is no violation of the vague Pam's Transvestite Blend TOS so I wonder how this will be explained away if someone were to make a comment about the missing post?

Elizabeth said...

Just in case they try and hide her posts I have a stored copy. I would not put it past them.

Actually WINO gives them some sense of credulity. I am firmly convinced this was a deliberate attempt by Sandeen and her fellow transvestites to circumvent the process in California in order to set a precedent so in their kumbaya world they can be girl one day and boy the next at work and to redefine what a female is because by allowing this it means a female can have a penis because birth is sex not gender.

One would think women's organizations and even the lesbian groups would be outraged by this type of transgender bullshit that is trying to redefine female. Post operative transsexuals have been accepted, reluctantly sometimes, but this threatens all that.

Just seems like transvestites wanting their dresses and female status while still standing up and peeing.

It is political correctness gone crazy.

Leigh said...

Sandeen has already read your plans and will not take the bait ..

shoulda kept this in private

Andrea Rosenfield said...

Help yourself; there's also Sour Cherry, Blackberry, Raspberry and Strawberry if you prefer. Too bad about the dogs, oh well.

Deleting links that access our court system, the vanguard of our constitutionally-protected natural rights as citizens, eh? Classy.

Elizabeth said...

@Leigh

If it stops her then it worked didn't it?

Leigh said...

Well yes and no.

All you have done is won a fight, one where sandeen and others will look for another opportunity such as AB-433.

Better that Sandeen had filed and got beat down, on record, in court with all the publicity that would have generated.

Not your friend said...

Andrea
They never said they agreed with the constitution.
They have taken issue with it and even at time tagged it as a racist document.
There are some of us here who would like to make it as hard as possible for that penis packing person Sandeen to change the sax marker to female on Sandeen's birth certificate, if we can't succeed at that then we would like to make it as public as possible.
Maybe Steve Yuhas (a local talk show host) would be interested. He thinks Tee-Gees are nuts anyway.
If only he knew how right he was.

Leigh said...

Old saying .. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. You can bet Sandeen does.

Elizabeth said...

@Leigh

What makes you think Sandeen is smart enough not to try anyway?

There was no way to do anything in secret and maybe AB-433 will get brought up and fixed.

@Andrea

Is Steve Yuhas the gay conservative talk show guy? Yes he is correct. Maybe I will send a letter to him or email him.

Leigh said...

"What makes you think Sandeen is smart enough not to try anyway?" ...liz

Smarter people than you or I have lost out to those they under-estimated.

Dont get me wrong. I am rooting for you.

Not your friend said...

Yes he is
http://www.steveyuhas.com/
Here is an easy form to contact Steve Yuhas
http://www.steveyuhas.com/contact.html

Or the old fashioned way
E-mail Steve: steve@steveyuhas.com

Elizabeth said...

@Leigh

I'll take the we are smarter than him by a lot but he is certainly more devious. This attempt is certainly deceitful and an attempt to usurp the law but then it is expected from Sandeen.

I bet Sandeen would actually enjoy the guy from Fox News putting a microphone in his face and asking, "How can you call yourself female when you want to keep your penis?"

Actually I might pay to watch that reaction.

Elizabeth said...

@Not Your Friend

Thanks for the info.

Andrea Rosenfield said...

If merely making Sandeen pay $350 to hear the word "No" from a Judge was the point, nothing need have been said, or would have been on my end.

It's not about Sandeen, it's about AB-433. As school let out and the "family" crowd was busy with their kids, the Senate amended it to remove the ability to file objections like this, and to protect physicians from being charged with perjury if they lie to the Court(!) about a person's treatment. IT LEGALIZES PERJURY, for God's sake!

It went back to the Assembly for reconciliation a week or two ago.

Call that DJ, NYF. This is what the media needs to know about, Liz.

The sponsor is Bonnie Lowenthal of Palos Verdes.
Contact information on her page here:

http://asmdc.org/members/a54/

This is about enabling "sham transitions" to produce legal marriages, then people can "de-transition" again, and hello same-sex marriage. But it all need happen only on paper. The physicians who sign the petitions can flat-out lie about it, and not be prosecuted. Everybody can know it but no one can say it. How Orwellian is THAT?

I don't think this is what the people who voted for Proposition 8 intended, do you? "Marriage is between two people, either a man and a woman, or a gay/lesbian couple who can get an out-of-state letter mill doctor to lie and say one of them had a sex change when they didn't and then lie again to change it back immediately afterward." I doubt that was the intent.

As much as I detest that initiative, it's still in the Constitution right now. If the Legislature and the Governor let this happen, the conservative legal groups will have to file suit to put a stay on it, as being unconstitutional. And I will be forced to support them. Nice going, LGBT.

Good thing Sandeen woke me up, I was busy with family stuff too and missed it. And you'd better believe I'm POed about it. And I can't believe these LGBT freak-tards have forced me to stand on Prop 8. Now I might have to accept NOM having standing to defend it, to keep it in force longer than need be, to get rid of this latest travesty. And that means any out-of-state corporation can write, pass, and defend its own laws via initiative. OMFG.

Legalize perjury???

Not your friend said...

I think AB-433 can be beaten before it has to go through the courts, People need to be informed.

As for Sandeen here is an interesting post from PHB...
"""
Inner peace? Perhaps...
The thing that concerns me the most about this, among all this drama, are quotes like this from Autumn...

the most important benefit in my mind being the soon government recognition that my female gender identity is my sex

Frankly, I'm no longer comfortable in my own skin -- especially from that documentation perspective.

Where I'm beginning to feel some emotion is at the reality that in my birth state of California, I'll now be able to petition the courts to change my legal sex, and once the petition is granted be able to change my name and sex marker on my birth certificate.

I mean, this ought to be about more than documentation. Well, it is about more the documentation, but documentation appears to be the primary motivating factor, especially according to that first quote. It makes me wonder, if she was not able to change her gender marker as a result of this, would she even be doing it? Without its' "most important benefit?"

I wish Autumn well and hope her recovery goes smoothly. I also hope there were deeper motivations other than the ones described here.
by: Teagan @ Mon Aug 22, 2011 at 16:51:10 PM CDT """

It seems Sandeen doesn't have the support Sandeen might expect.

Teagan said...

?

I don't think that Sandeen should expect my support. I don't wish anything bad to happen to her from a medical standpoint. But I certainly don't buy into this "orchie = SRS" nonsense. I thought my first comment in this thread made that clear.

Not your friend said...

I don't think anybody with scruples would support fraud.
The comment of yours I quoted I thought drove home a particularly sharp point as it seems in Sandeen's mind it's all about the reasons quoted above.

Leigh said...

@anne (ella es asi)

I got your invite and tried to comment but....

I don't have a google account, nor do I wish to create one just to post a response on your blog. I also do not have your email addy so I cant write you either.

There are other blogs that do the same thing, that is require someone to have some account type they may not have to leave a comment. Fact is it's ponderous! I suggest you do like liz or SA-ET does and allow people to comment without jumping through hoops and requirements. Making a blog private, IMHO, negates the purpose of having a blog in the first place ..

Not your friend said...

I totally agree Leigh
I have a Gmail account if that email address isn't good enough than jumping through the hoops is silly and I won't bother.

Screw it.

Deena said...

I'm waiting for some of my religious far right friends to connect the dots. Anne gets fed up and decides to go private. Meanwhile Hurricane Irene ramps up and threatens the east coast as Virginia has an earthquake and Tripoli falls to rebels. Certainly these are all signs of the end times.

Oh well.

Not your friend said...

You forgot something Deena
We have a complete idiot who doesn't even know how many states are in the country as president.

The joke is on us.

Anonymous said...

@NYF....I DO agree, but I also hope you are wrong.

@Leigh...I hae similar problems posting comments using my gmail/ggogle acc't. (like here on Liz's blog), so I just post anonymously, then sign my name.

Anne

@NYF....my email is listed on my gmail/google profile.....aND...I do not have YOUR email addy so I ccannot send YOU an invite.

FYI...the reason I went pprivate is that the majority of my followers are CREEPS! Consider the profile and interests of my most recent "follower", edward flint.

I AM sorry. There IS a limit to my tolerances.

Anonymous said...

@Anne

Edward Flint, the trial lawyer?

Elizabeth said...

@Anne,

If you are using Mozilla Firefox as your browser it occasionally has an issue with goggle the cache when you comment. I had those issues. Go to Options and clear the cache for the browser. It should clear that up but it will repeat itself but that is how you clear it. It is usually not an issue with Internet Explorer but clearing the cache is always a good idea every once in a while. One can drop gigabytes of crap on a computer over time in a cache.

As for your followers being creeps well all I can say is it a creep commenter is the nature of the beast. I think it is a mistake to go private but that is just my opinion. I am too Welsh, as in stubborn, to let the transgender loons force me from writing although i will admit I have been blogging less. I find that weird but i am sure it is comforting to some.

I am sorry but if I have to log on to read a blog then I am not reading the blog. Too much work us senior citizen retirees.

Not your friend said...

Ann I can't find your profile.
If you would please send an invite to
aformeroldfriend@gmail.com

Anonymous said...

@Everyone

Back on topic, since some of you are going ahead and writing objections to Autumn's Castration = SRS as a valid reason to deny her petition also mean you will write similar objections to F2M's who rarely have phalloplasty and still are routinely granted petitions for a gender marker change on their birth certificate?

FYI I'll write slow for some of the dense bigots in here; you may get away with conversations of prejudice in here, you have that right, however a judge reviewing Autumn's petition, who is worth his salt, will see through it in the aforementioned example.

She Said...

Not your friend said...

She Said

You are right I object to anybody who doesn't have the best available reconstructive surgery and that includes female to males, they don't get a pass for not having the best available reconstructive surgery.

If you still have a vagina you are not a man.
You are just another Tee-Gee MINO (Man In Name Only) trying to pull off fraud.

Deena said...

@ She Said.

I've been thinking a lot about this because while I think Autumn is or will be committing fraud it really grates on my nerves to reach out and intentionally interfere with someone's life. I have concluded that it isn't worth it to me. In fact from my perspective it would put me in the same boat Autumn sails. Autumn (and this is simply my perspective) has actively done much to screw women and continues to try to deny the validity of lives with postings about TG including everyone.

So, I'll sit on the sidelines and hope all this hoopla is resolved by a wise judge asking for a bit more detail and calling it the way it should be called. Btw, I hope its a female judge who reads PHB.

Leigh said...

Oh Please !!

There is a world of difference between the 2 types of surgery involving M2F and F2M. The first is proven successful in almost all cases, depending on the surgeons skill of course, while the second is not only hugely unsuccessful in it's final outcome, but is also 3-4 times the cost of the M2F.

I swear to god, if SRS(M2f) were free, the likes of Sandeen would opt for the orchi or not get it done at all. The fact is, it isnt free, but on the other hand its not real expensive either, cheaper in many cases than a new economy car.

I was in agreeance with some of what you had said earlier on this blog, and I actually believed you were genuinly doing research but you are not researching diddly squat. You are here to spout off transgender ideology and nothing more. Your a sock puppet!

Well talk to the hand.

Anonymous said...

@NYF

At least your consistant. Wouldn't you agree for Autumn's sake and for her health castration and low doses of HRT are better than maintaining her previous genital configuration with much higher doses of HRT?

@Deena

As I venture further into my acedemic career and licenced MD life I will not be able to have much of a political opinion sans my anonymous postings here, which is why I will never reveal my name. I agree with you that these arguments
have a consistant black and white stilt that once illuminated horizontally with the F2M reality show the intellectual materialism and base bigotry of the poster.

@Everyone

SRS for both F2M and M2F does not carry a guarantee of success without complication, in fact no surgical procedure does. Precautions are established in best practice and theoty. FYI SRS for M2F just has a higher rate of success. I don't buy the arguments that allow one a pass, based on higher complication rates (Elizabeth), when there are cases of successful SRS for F2M. If you wish to be consistant you must also deny F2M's a gender marker change on their birth certificates because F2M's don't undergo SRS to the degree M2F's do.

However this is a political argument measured by the devices of political science not medical science. Yet what I see fleshed out in the original post is an all or nothing attitude; only SRS/GRS = gender
change.

BTW I disagree with Autumn's claim that Castration is SRS, yet she should be allowed to change her birth certificate; I must remain consistant with F2M reality and disagree with NYF.

She Said...

Anonymous said...

@Leigh

Are you not the alcoholic drunkard that once slurred the comment to Dysonnane on her blog , "If you don't pass kill youself?" In so many words of course.

And again Leigh be a consistant bigot; ONLY SRS = GENDER MARKER CHANGE, notwithstaning cost, success rate or ability to pass.

She Said...

Anonymous said...

Sandeen using her orchi to claim womanhood is just like the wetbacks who sneak across the border into the USA illegally. Oh wait Leigh, isn't that exactly how you got here amiga?

Not your friend said...

She Said

Why don't you stop with fake researcher bullshit.
Some of us have been on to you since the start.
You are a fake and a fraud just like your buddy Sandeen.

Go troll in T-Central with your kind where you belong

Anonymous said...

Speaking of fakes and frauds.

Sue Ann Robins (Not your friend) is a fine example of hypocrisy in action. A middle-aged transitioner and Blanchard supporter, she is still married to the little woman. And believe me, people spot her as a dood a mile away. There is a page (with photos) dedicated to this epitome of femininity (gag) at http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/susan-ann-robins.html.

Elizabeth said...

@Not Your Friend

I disagree with your comment about FTM needing to get rid of their vagina. A hysterectomy should be required but a penis is not cheap to construct and they do not work too well. Along with the mastectomy that is a man. A man with a reproductive organs is not a man but a woman without tits.

Not your friend said...

Someone here doesn't have the slightest who they are comment to, must of hit a nerve. Calling you a fake too close for comfort. I'm not who you say I am.
Sure is easy to sit behind your fake name and make accusations like that.
Nice try fool maybe you should go back and play with your transvestite friends at T-Central.

Elizabeth
I guess we will have to agree to disagree in that regard. I think that if we give the FTMs a pass on the cost of reconstructive surgery we have to do the same for MTFs and I don't agree with that.


Well Elizabeth I guess there is something to be said for taking blogs private.

Anonymous said...

"Well Elizabeth I guess there is something to be said for taking blogs private."

Congrats for confirming for everyone what I already knew, Bill. oops, I mean "Sue Ann" ROTFLMFAO!!!

Not your friend said...

Nobody confirmed anything and you still don't know who you are talking to.
Now run along and go play with your transvestite friends. Let the real women have their space.

Sure takes a big man to hide behind a computer and attack women. Your mother would be proud.

Anonymous said...

I would, Bill, but you aren't a woman! You're just a cock-eyed crossdressing dood claiming to be a transexual in order to attain some measure of credibility, while you live off of disability handouts from the government!

Leigh said...

@ he said

'Are you not the alcoholic drunkard that once slurred the comment to Dysonnane on her blog , "If you don't pass kill youself?"'

No! .. no I am not. I have never been an alchoholic nor a drunkard and I never said "if you dont't pass, kill yourself", and I have never sneaked across any borders illegally either ...

... but nice try at ad hominem attacks. Now your showing your true colors Ms Transgender.

Not your friend said...

Watch out Leigh you just confirmed whoever that person is is right.
You gave yourself away. ;)

Anonymous said...

Leave Leigh out of this, Bill.

Do you miss the good old days on alt.support.crossdressing, Bill? It sure has been fun all these years, watching you morph from a crossdresser into an autogynephile and then into a Classic Transexual, without benefit of surgery. Not even an orchi! Yes Bill, you are a woman now BECAUSE YOU SAY SO.

Should have been nicer to Tommy, Bill!

Elizabeth said...

@Not Your Friend

I see no reason to take a blog private other than not being able to handle the criticism inherent with blogging on controversial subjects.

Just for clarification sake the Anonymous person that does not state a name is Black Swan who for some reason has taking to hiding their true self but since I know who she actually is I have to save she truly was transsexual and is post operative but has been deluded by the transgender mantra for reasons I actually kind of understand bu disagree with.

As for disagreeing about certain forms of surgery I think a hysterectomy qualifies considering the phallus create in FTM transsexuals is mainly useless. I know of no surgeon that creates a naturally function penis but maybe I am out of touch.

For FTMs giving up the ability to be pregnant is important because a pregnant man is a contradiction in terms and any attempt by these transgender apologists to align SRS for MTF and claim FTMs have to create a penis that costs 100K and does not work like a penis is well very male.

There are almost zero medical issues with MTF SRS other than a man like Sandeen needing his last vestige of manhood and talking about vagina maintenance issues and claiming it is easier to take care of his penis. I basically think that says it all about Sandeen.

Deena said...

@ Elizabeth. OK I'm lost. Please start a new thread along the lines of "Free for all" or "let's forget Autumn and go for nuclear winter".

I hope you don't mind the suggestion. This seems to be getting a bit silly IMHO.

Thanks,
Deena

Elizabeth said...

@Deena

Ignore comments on this post if they bother you.

Deena said...

Oh Elizabeth please don't misconstrue. They don't bother me at all. But that is a good concept to focus back on Autumn. Autumn doesn't even bother me because Autumn is intent on broadcasting to the world exactly what Autumn is. I have great confidence that the world can distinguish differences between men and women.

Not your friend said...

Elizabeth
I admit I don't get FTMs I have never met 1.
I will take your word for it and defer to your knowledge on the subject.

As for Black Swan the world is full of deranged people.
Maybe this person should take up a hobby.

Leigh said...

"Leave Leigh out of this, Bill" .... ???

What is that supposed to mean? I called this "she Said" person a sock puppet and he or she got all twisted and revealed they are not what they purported to be by doing so. Your saying it's bill, whoever the heck that is! Who cares anyway? He or she is still a sock puppet that cant even get their facts straight.

And now you are suposedly black adder or black swan or whoever the heck you are, and again who freaking cares?

If you all want to live in a transgender fantasy world, go ahead, wont effect me one bit. Been down this road before, waste of time and energy swatting at ghosts hiding in the shadows.

Kathryn Martin said...

Reading the comments here, there is much of substance but strangely equally much of nothing. From these comments it would appear that calling a person TG, Wino and outing them has become the most favorite form of argument. This form of debate obviously and firmly establishes legitimacy. If this is the basis of submissions to the court .... oh my.

Not your friend said...

You can't out someone you don't know.
Black Swan or whatever that person is doesn't know what Black Swan is talking about.

While we are on the subject of Tee-Gees

http://lgbtweekly.com/2011/08/25/oww-a-little-pain/

For those who are interested here is Sandeen's PHB story in a place where Sandeen has no control over moderation.

Any link that gets posted to this site flag the post for moderation keep that in mind.

Andrea Rosenfield said...

@KM: I agree, it's positively mind-blowing. I don't worry about it; if you knew what happens on the other side when the clerks look over the submissions, you wouldn't either.

Besides, ex parte Judges hear a slew of restraining-order cases every day, so irrational behavior is hardly novel to them. Anyone who cares to put evidence of their own mental instability onto the public record by filing an unhinged petition is quite free to do so.

Anonymous said...

The potentialroblem that I far is that Sandeen and comapny will find an uber left leaning progressive, "legislate from the bench judge", get his way, thereby setting an incredibly INSANE and damaging legal precedent, subject to appeal of course.

Anne

Miz Know-It-All said...

Hummm...

After having read the last few posts along with the bazillion "Highly Edumacated" comments that followed... I just gotta ask! Could someone PLEASE enlighten me as to why there is any push at all to remove all this from the DSM-V? Cause, at least to this one is would seem that better than 99.9% of the ones out there who say they are facing the demon seem to have skidded w-a-y past the bend in the road!

I mean when the men in retirement who are suddenly coming to the realization they are women becomes legion?" That is they are women... just as long as you aren't so sexist as to define woman as having to look like a woman, sound like a woman, act like a woman, and god forbid! Face life as a woman or, or, or... to have s-e-x like a woman... Well I mean like eww! Don't you know that is like so queer! I mean you want em to touch another, I mean touch a guys thing? They can't do that cause they are all lesbians just like they was when they deflowered and impregnated the little woman

You know...

Not to beleaguer the point, but am I the only one who notes that it seems that the ONLY part of this that qualifies one as being a woman by their definition is the desire to dress sorta like either a worn out street walker or a matron who shops the bargain bins at Goodwill then to have some lunk-head hold the door for em at the 7-11.

But hey! they're so not transvestite, right?

Yeah... right!

Kathryn Martin said...

Hey Miz, are we all mental? Maybe that could be the answer to the DSM 5.

Deena said...

In some cases the answer would seem to be yes Kathryn. Glad you called the question.

Anonymous said...

Mental? Let me put it this way... I have yet to meet a transsexual who had her head screwed on straight.

Not your friend said...

Well anonymous
I guess you haven't met me.

Anybody who would live with a birth defect of this magnitude and wouldn't correct it as soon as possible is mental. You would have to be as fruity as a box of fruit loops to not deal with it.

Deena said...

Anonymous I have yet to meet a CD who has any sense of style.

Not your friend said...

I am with you on that Deena most of them are in their 50s and dress like they are in their 20s.
Very scary.

Deena said...

Most?

Anonymous said...

You're all pitiful, ragging on crossdressers so you can feel better about your own pathetic lives.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous

Please enlighten us to whom you believe is truly sane? I personally believe the human condition carries with it a modicum of frivolity and moments of puerile insanity--we like to call that play. Been doing that a bit.

At you too Deena…

@Elizabeth

I'm sure, if you know who I am, you know my tour schedule posted on my website... Did you see Big Sky Country anywhere in that little box called "Live Traffic Feed?" since my post August 18, 2011 6:36 PM. Essentially I’ve been off the net since then. Every once in awhile I have to say F**k It and go on a news fast for seven days.

(F**k It, Small Book Big Wisdom, by John C, Parkin & Gaia Pollini, Hay House, 2009)

Sounds like your still kicking Autumn’s can. Reminds me of a horse I used to own; a gelding, called him Excalibur. Former race horse, no balls, just fast as hell. FYI; Thoroughbreds have two speeds: Fight you to go anywhere as slow as possible or warp speed.

Are you really going to file an opposition to her petition?

@Miz Know-It-All

Your quite the interlocutor in your blog. Yes I did turn my lemons to lemonade, but it wasn‘t easy and certainly wasn‘t the most optimal path. See your using the same avatar.

I did a lot of hiking on my trip. I noticed something in my travels that had me thinking the type of transsexual you are is like a pebble in your shoe. You don’t notice it right away, once you feel the pebble it’s hard to ignore, then it becomes all you can think about, eventually it keeps you from walking, but once removed its as if it was never there in the first place. Weather you notice it or not has nothing to do with the pebble but the individuals threshold of pain. I'm curious what Elizabeth says about this.

In Autumn’s case it may not be about a pebble. Why all the hubbub to try and stop her from getter her fix, changing her birth certificate and living the way she feels most happy?

I feel there is a difference between TG and TS, most get that, they’re not harming me in anyway, just leave them be.

BlackSwan

Anonymous said...

@Deena

Are you still playing your banjo?

BlackSwan

Deena said...

BS, yes. But it needs to be a 2 way street.

Not your friend said...

That's asking too much Deena.

Deena said...

It is?

Not your friend said...

Some people don't like to deal with others on an even footing.

Elizabeth said...

The Anonymous who is not signing a name is our fictitious MD/PhD student otherwise known as She Said.

Anonymous said...

@Elizabeth,

I assure you I've no relationship with She Said and Anonymous (1, 2 and possibly 3). I think because you don't know who the 'Anonymous' poster is it could be multiple people.

Because you allow it you have to live with that fact. There are so many sock puppets its hard to keep track of them. For obvious reasons I must remain BS so my career doesn't fall in jeopardy.

What do you think about my pebble in your shoe example?

BlackSwan

Elizabeth said...

@Black Swan

When I get a pebble in my shoe I immediately stop and take my shoe off and remove it. Obviously you lack the common sense to do such a thing. I do not enjoy bad analogies.

As for who the Anonymous posters were they were all She Said and that is all I will say about it to you.

Your career? Are you so dense you actually think people do not know you were born transsexual? It is all over the internet but if your delusion makes you feel better about yourself then go for it.

Because I allow something it means I control what I allow. People can comment how they want except for June Hingle whose comments will be deleted.

Anonymous said...

@Elizabeth,

Children who have been severely abused, traumatized beaten and molested develop coping mechanisms, passive resistance and a thick skin to the pain in their lives as a defense; it’s a selective awareness which diminishes various capacities of the human senses--pain is one of them.

I noticed this when I was on one of my hikes. A small little pebble, grey in color, covered in alkaline, on a graveled forest ranger road wasn’t noticed for miles until I was way up on the North East side Yellow Stone, where the ground had more a iron oxide and sulfur, yellowish/red/brown colors. I’m one of those types that minds my surroundings.

The analogy would be better if I could make comparisons to where the pebble lands in your shoe and how it manages to travel as you walk, but that would be confusing and too many tangents. Your not really interested anyway. I feel it’s a good analogy and it doesn’t require your approval.

I’m not going to discuss my career here, but will make it clear that I didn’t transition to be a transsexual . I attempt to raise the level of the conversation to more relevant matters and as far as delusions are concerned, I probably do choose my thoughts, ignoring the others. I’m sure I put my selective awareness to very good use when people stare at me. I just had to change the meaning of why they were staring at me to something more positive, not “Hay look at that transsexual!” to “Wow that’s the most beautiful tall chick I’ve ever seen.” It puts a smile on my face instead of a frown--would you agree that’s better?

BlackSwan

Elizabeth said...

@Black Swan

You could try carrying a WNBA bag and wear stuff from the LA team.

I understand coping mechanisms sweetie. Been there and done that. It was done to you and it did not deter you from getting surgery. Just why is everyone else incapable of getting on with life and ending their transsexual past?

If you are transsexual they can do what they want and it is not going away. They tried for 6 weeks with me under the worse conditions imaginable and it cost some memories but I knew I need to change my sex or I would die. They can make you forget some things like molestation but NOBODY that was born transsexual forgets they are transsexual and anyone that says they do is completely and totally full of shit.

Benjamin had 162 transsexuals under his care at one time or another and NOT ONE SINGLE ONE OF THEM ever forgot they were transsexual despite it being the worst of times. The second they realized they could get help, like finding Benjamin or the few others helping, they got help. They did not stay married for 35 years and adore their marriage and love their roles as fathers and in fact used fantasies according to them to have sex with a woman. That thought never crossed my mind.

The problem today is it is the "It was not my fault" time and it is "society made me do it" yet in the worst of times it did not prevent those truly born transsexual from doing what was necessary to cure their transsexualism. All one hears today is excuses why they could not do it.

Their issues pale in comparison to yours yet you got your surgery and it took a great deal of courage for you to do it. I know how damaged you are but you survived yet we have fools that are 58 telling us they never knew they could get help and they love the wife and want to stay married but it is not a lesbian relationship. I guess they consider themselves still the husband. Some claim to have controlled their transsexualism with sheer will power.

Any person walking around today that claims they did not know they could get help is a liar. They chose not to get help and their is no choice in transsexualism but then there is if you get the meaning redefined and subsumed by the transvestites and others that make up 90+ percent of the transgender movement.

We have not one single thing in common with them either politically or medically because they have a fetish and we are medical. Just a load of rubbish put forth to allow transvestites to dress at work and teach our children in school in drag when they feel like so they can get a real sexual charge or get the big charge of using the ladies room in drag or is it en femme now.

Being such a transgender activist I am surprised you do not admonish them and tell them to say "Look at the that transgendered person" but then you really do not believe you are transgendered or you would describe yourself as one. Just another hypocrite using transgender to make a living.

Anonymous said...

Well I don't advocate for a TG group or Gay, Inc. I would agree with with your feelings on the matter, but are you seriously going to take action in the real world and file an opposition to Autumn's petition?

Is anyone here going to do that?

I cannot go over any more of you points outside of a private email, this is my main point of contention with you, "The second they realized they could get help." Do you concede there are people who couldn't find help? Wouldn't you agree that your basing this off Dr. Benjamin's opinion, which its obvious there were qaulified cases that never received help by Dr. Banjamin?

BlackSwan

Anonymous said...

Clearly, there WAS help, other than Dr. Benjamin. I sought and FOUND that help in 1971.
It was not easy, but it simply HAD to be done. There is NO WAY that I would be alive today, if I had not sought and found help when I did.

On another note, I am uncomfortble ith the duplicity of these unsigned "anonymous" commenters, including BS and SS

Anne

Anonymous said...

As for opposing Sandeen's REAL LIFE FRAUD in REAL LIFE, I personally hope that and support those that ARE "seriously going to take action in the real world and file an opposition to Autumn's petition"

Anne

Not your friend said...

There are people who are going to contest Autumn's fradulent claim to sex reassignment surgery.

I get the feeling Black Swan or whatever S/he name is supports criminal behavior and fraud.
I can't believe this person is some kind of mental health professional.

That would be a laugh.

Elizabeth said...

@Black Swan

But there was a lot of help available in the late 70's, 80's, and 90's yet they managed to AVOID finding it? How convenient!

Of course people could not find help in many locations in the US. But based on Benjamin and sadly even John Money by the late 60's there were places one could get help in LA, Frisco, NYC, and other larger cities but it was not easy but as they entered the later decades they must not have watched television in the US or read a paper or bought a magazine. Renee Richards was a major story in the mid 70's in the US. Maybe they were deaf, dumb, and blind on purpose.

@Anne

To best of my knowledge Black Swan has signed most of her Anonymous posts. She Said is a Butch Lesbian, her words, and is not what she claims to be.

Anonymous said...

Yes there were people in the 60's and 70's who sought help. Their mental illness was too pervasive to ignore. And now you mentally ill men who fraudulently claim to be women want to pass judgment on those who weren't as loony as you.

If a man believes he is Napoleon, he is placed in a mental hospital, but if a man believes he is a woman, he is put on hormones and tracked for surgery.

If a man wants his legs gut off, he is put in a rubber room, but if he wants his dick or balls cut off, they'll do it for a price.

The lunatics truly are running the asylum.

Not your friend said...

Anonymous doesn't know the first thing about the science behind transsexuality. Some people still believe the world is flat and we never went to the moon.

Elizabeth thanks for sorting out the players.

Anonymous said...

NYF <-- another loonie heard from (can't keep his big trap shut)

Leigh said...

Nope ..

If someone believes they are Napoleon, they are entitled to believe that. Whether other's believe that is up to them, but the act of believing you're Napoleon does not put you in a mental ward.


If a man wants his legs cut off? Show me one case where someone has wanted their legs cut off, or their arms, their hands, their ears or their nose .. go ahead point me to the link

Silly anonymous person...

Elizabeth said...

The Anonymous poster not applying a name is "She Said". One might ask how I know but when the only person online reading this blog post that would write such a thing is from San Diego with the correct ip address then it is our lying sack of shit know as "She Said" or should we now call her "Dyke Said"?

She Said blew her cover in an earlier comment when she said she would castrate young transsexuals early and it was not meant in kind terms. Along with the other non-signed Anonymous posts that have arrived lately all from her ip address in San Diego which is her ISP.

I guess we can now be certain that Dyke Said is NOT an MD and NOT a PhD candidate and has NOT interviewed transsexuals either early or late. Now if "it" was not such a total coward "it" would come forth and admit the attempted chicanery.

The simple truth is She Said is not whom she claimed to be and just a little tidbit there is no graduate student or doctor external to LA Children's working with or interviewing any of their patients and certainly not someone with the extreme views of Dyke Said. I talked to them.

Elizabeth said...

@Black Swan

I do not want a conversation with you in private. I know of your past with others and am not interested in any form of communication with you other than on this blog.

Elizabeth said...

Dyke Said is on this blog right now.

Not your friend said...

S/he Said
did I strike a nerve
Poor baby

Email me and we will go out for coffee.
I will drive into Hillcrest the gay ghetto there in SD where you will be comfortable and safe.

We could talk.

Do you hang our at the gay center a lot with your lesbian friends?

Not your friend said...

Well if she is here she has been sitting doing nothing for the last half hour.

Anonymous said...

for you, leigh

this person is transsexual AND cut off his legs!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA43DS2c12c

Deena said...

OK Anon, news flash for you. If you think that person is transsexual I have some lovely Florida swamp land you might be interested in for your next mansion.

Leigh said...

Well .. you got me there. I should have known remember there would be some sicko out there that will do the bizarre.

I love the bit where he "became" a transsexual .. kinda the same way he "became" confined to a wheelchair.

Not your friend said...

That video was sick in that Jerry Springer
"Yesterday I didn't know how to spell Tee-Gee and today I R 1" way.

Elizabeth said...

@Black Swan

It is Caroline Cossey's birthday today. Bet that brings back memories!!!!!

Miz Know-It-All said...

@ShesSaid/Anonymous

I truly want to thank you! You see I've been trying to getting going on my new diet but not really feeling that get going part yet... Well low and behold there you are with you the singularly most disgusting and disturbing thing that has ever crossed my computer screen!

Let me tell you! I ain't got no problems getting going now cause that little clip of yourn has put me so off my feed that the hard part may be in ever eating again!

Other than that, what Leigh said... That ain't no transsexual!

@ Black Swan, Rather like your interesting choice in monikers dear! BS... too funny! I could't have made that one up if I had tried and yet you chose it all by yourself!

As for the poor me life story... Honey, you ain't the only one who lived through hell, Pebble in my shoe? Yeah right...

Still, it seems odd somehow that you're the only one who whines about their pebble! As a woman I know whofor her life fled with her baby on her hip and just the clothes on her back first from Hitler then Stalin and as the fates were not done with her, Peron, would say to you?

Get over it already!

Pebble... Ya know, I kinda like that... pebble, this inverse analogy thing of yours kinda grows on you after a bit, pebble...hummmm... so if I extrapolate from pebble then that would make the Empire State building a hut... right?
Gotta love it!
Tah!

Anonymous said...

Has anyone ever noticed how when the unsubstantiated assertions are refuted by simple documented FACTS, the provider of those facts is INSTANTLY demonized and attacked as "insane" or "bigoted", "transphobic", etc?

Especially such cowardly BS'ers like BS and SS.

Anne

Anonymous said...

@Miz Know-It-All

Conversational terrorism shall we? "Get Over It," the ultimate "fait accompli". A very common contemporary extension of the either/or fallacy, quashing critical thought by announcing that there is no realistic alternative to a given standpoint. Trust me I do the best I can with my lemons. However, there are no solutions only the hurting.

I called your answering machine and it says your still in your genius class and only at the “know-it-all” level, and to leave you with a question and you’ll get back to me with the answer.

OK Genius here is a question for you. What do I do with the hurting? Another pebble maybe?

You see when you say “Get over it” it’s conversational cheating. Another variation:

YOU’LL Get Over it.

"I used to think that way when I was your age."

"As you mature emotionally (or mentally, or spiritually), you will grow out of your present way of thinking, and you will eventually come around to my point of view."

"You're new here, aren't you?"

Its really an oblique Ad Hominem

I’ve been guilty of them too.

BlackSwan

Anonymous said...

@Elizabeth

Caroline is my hero too. I sent her a birthday card.

I decided to use what mother nature gave to me instead of fight it. I know your fishing for virtue and maybe a bit more truth about me. In time. I have a blog about it--its in my words, no comments allowed at this time; private at the moment. In the mean time know that I’m doing very well for what I do and you only really see about 20 % of it. Most of my work is overseas.

Some delusions are good one some harmful, some even necessary: I took my 16 year old high school picture and traced my face to see what I would have looked like, added color and acrylic paint to canvas. I pretty much dropped my cookies. I would have been so beautiful, 6’1” max, very thin…I would have been… so many things. I opened up Pandora’s box with that exercise.

With all the powers I have I cannot go back in time. That’s a delusion that will kill you. All that remains are the phantoms and the hurting.

Mother nature was so cruel to me.

I’m sure you just can’t wait to tear me down…. I’m sorry I’m not the Tula you wanted. I’m the woman you deserve to see and its not my job to make you happy. Its my job to live the best I can with what I have, and try to be happy doing it.

BlackSwan

Anonymous said...

@Elizabeth, Anne, NYF and Leigh

If you examine the history or transition related resources and look at the decades and numbers of transitions, insurance coverage and public awareness of the condition you will see a wave of disproportionality. A huge up-swing into the 60s and 70s of transitioners, with clinics in the major medical centers in East and West metropolitan areas, news all over the country and a fashion sense that made gender ambiguity easy. By the 70s health insurance covered it until 1982, utilizing Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Nationwide, Humana and United Healthcare statistics. Then Janise Raymond and Ronald Reagan, a conservative movement in the early 80s, exacerbated by the AIDS plague you saw a sharp drop and many deaths; the clinics shut down all across the country, insurance coverage for it ceased and a scarlet letter branded on anyone remotely close to the Gay community. By the 90’s one of the largest spikes of transitioners and the birth of the “transgenderist” or Tee-Gee’s if your will NYF. My mother died of AIDS in the 90s--she was not gay. I was scared to death.

Elizabeth I wasn’t lucky like you. If you know my abuse story at all I had to deal with a perfect storm--it still didn’t stop me. I’m sure you would invalidate me at your earliest if you could find one old photo of me to declare, “SEE!!” I have a theory that the doctors where not the real gate keepers--it was woman like you; a selective sisterhood who would pick who gets it and who doesn’t. The doc’s didn’t advertise did they? You would have over-looked me…too tall and too late.

You are correct there were services available all through the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. You are also correct that you never forget your transsexual because it isn’t dependant on a narrative. My loss of narrative, from my accident, a concussion, didn’t prevent me from chasing boys or girl like activities. However, social punishments prevailed to quash my ability to receive help until I was at an obvious physical state making it impossible; I couldn’t find clothing or shoes to wear--think about that for a second. Makes it very hard to transition doesn’t it? I waited and floundered below the poverty line for many years until I could not stand it anymore. Your right, once providence hits your with a lethal reality all the “how’s” fall into place.

You cannot escape the questions that have been posed by the “Anonymous” posters that have not been answered, cuz you can’t attach someone effectively with an Ad Hominem if you don’t know anything about them. The true numbers at Children’s Hospital LA in the last five years of treated cased, non-recidivism patients under 18, these are ACTIVE treated cases, which double the cases the decade before. She Said was correct.

I suggest you all tune into ABC News tonight at 10pm PST and watch Cynthia McFadden’s report about trans-kids. Dr. Olsen from Children’s hospital is being featured. Spread the word.

BlackSwan

Not your friend said...

BlackSwan

I had friends who died from AIDS in the 80s all because of Bayer dirty blood products. Their only crime was being born with a clotting disorder. I harbor a lot of anger toward homosexuals who believe HIV positive persons should be able to Anonymously give blood, they want to share the gift.

From what I remember the decline of the clinics had as much to do with a high profile TS's regrets and a few law suites as anything else.

The one thing you did do was survive whatever abuse was heaped upon you, some didn't. I can't point to anybody who transitioned in our age group that had understanding parents. Some ended up in mental hospitals.

It’s very unfortunate the Tee-Gees have hijacked our identity in favor of their own.
Science is making slow progress and uncovering some important clues as to why we are the way we are. With any luck the medical profession and society will perhaps receive the children who are afflicted with our medical condition more kindly, and without being treated like Tee-Gee freaks.
We can only hope.

Elizabeth said...

@Black Swan

I was a gatekeeper. You dumb shit. I am the one that sued Blue Cross and Blue Shield in early 1972 and convinced them to pay for SRS. It was Harry and me and my very expensive lawyer in Boston who I paid out of my pocket so others could get help. I never saw a dime of what I paid the surgeon and the hospital plus 5 figures of my own money.

Blue Cross Blue Shield stopped covering surgery because too many idiots were requesting surgery even by the late 70's. How do I know this? I knew one of the Attorneys for Blue Cross intimately. We are still friends today and that friendship began the day they deposed me in Boston under what can only be described as unfriendly conditions initially.

It was girls like me that set some of the precedents that helped gain some acceptance. You are exactly what multiple people have told me you were and still are. One of my best friends was 6-2 and could have played linebacker in the NFL. She was doomed and it broke my heart. I would have given her every penny I had to help her but she committed suicide. She was never going to be able to live as a girl and it broke her heart and mine along with Harry's and all her friends. You are a fool and no nothing of what you speak about.

You are a whiny little baby full of the poor mes and yes you had it rough but some of us were put through aversion therapy that makes what they use at Gitmo look like a walk in central park. You know nothing about me because you have read nothing on this blog.

I happen to know basically everything about you sweetie. I know the truth about you and Cossey and the truth about you and Brevard. I know you are very damaged goods and I have that from multiple sources that know you really well and actually care about you because we all realize you went through hell but so didn't a lot of us.

Do I have a problem with Sandeen and her bullshit? I certainly do. If she had said this is my first step and when I can afford surgery I would have stayed quiet but Sandeen is such an attention hound she had to add her silly comments.

Elizabeth said...

Do I have issues with some late transitioners? Yes I do because the narrative they claim is bullshit and the lives they live is bullshit but many of them are truly transsexual. Most of the time if not all the time it is some 55+ year old pre-operative self diagnosed transsexual talking about things they know nothing about.

When I was transitioned and pre-operative I kept my mouth shut and head down and worked my ass off to get the money I needed for surgery because I had been completely disowned by my family.

I have talked with Children's in LA. They work with patients fro 10-25 so they have an added 7 years which differs from Boston Children's. I prefer LA Children's age span. They treat both transsexual and those with gender issues that are not transsexual. Maybe we will find out this evening how many are actually transsexual.

I believe the statistics they state are for the age group 10-25 and not 10-18. I will check with them. I happen to believe any child whether it is for transsexualism or whatever"trans" condition they might have should be helped.

Your head is stuck so far up your ass you cannot see the damage the transgender crowd does. 90% of the public think transgender means transsexual and we all know it means transvestite, crossdresser, etc.. How much traction do you think you assholes would have if instead of transgender you fools had to use transvestites, cross-dressers, etc.. The transgender movement would be dead on arrival.

How much traction do you think you loons would have if the public realized most of the transgender activists are men in dresses with a penis they want to keep it and pretend to be women? Dead on arrival.

You blame the world and everyone around you for your physical issues. Blame mother nature because mother nature is the one that fucked up not anyone else. If I could make you 5-9 I would do it in a heartbeat but I cannot.

She Said is a fraud who claimed to be an MD/PhD candidate and whomever it is was lying. She Said was correct about NOTHING.

You are very beautiful and you should be grateful for that. Even at your height you pass easily but you chose to put yourself in the public eye and not anyone else. You did not turn away from that and your side business dominating little men. You could have probably just been a reasonably normal tall girl because there are actually a few in college and playing hoop in the pros but you are the one that chose to put yourself out there so please shove your poor Black Swan bullshit where the sun does not shine.

Deena said...

@ Elizabeth. I don't get it. Please enlighten me. You start a thread focused on a person claiming to be a woman after an Orchi and then it morphs into attacks on Black Swan. You have stated several times that Black Swan is transsexual but then you call her everything from a BS'er to an idiot. I'm sure you will have a few choice invectives for me since I dare to ask. Knock yourself out if you feel so compelled but please tell me why you went into attack mode against Black Swan?

Elizabeth said...

@Deena

I attacked Black Swan? Interesting concept but not true. If you want to support Black Swan's opinion on transsexuals be my guest and I have such a low opinion of you to start with giving any opinion of you might be construed as a compliment.

Deena said...

@ Elizabeth. OK Forrest. I am, however, concerned with the antics of Autumn Sandeen for this reason. Our country is controlled politically by a huge majority of hetero-normative people in many enclaves of both conservative and liberal philosophies. I fear the TG borg (or whatever you prefer as a label) is creating a backlash.

It would not surprise me if state legislatures begin introducing laws that define sex as the sex assigned at birth. Autumn and her ilk would be f**ked by that but so would transsexuals.

Oh, btw, I'm not even sure your opinion of me is real because I have no idea whether you are real. Harry had over 200 patients who were transsexual not the 162 you cite. The 162 number was in his book up through 1964.

But I suggest animosity between us is so much folderol. My concern and I suspect yours as well is the world young transsexuals face now and will face in coming decades. Autumn and others like Autumn are in the process of making that future ghoulish. Any suggestions on how that can be prevented?

Anonymous said...

@Deena

I appreciate your defense of me but it isn’t necessary. Elizabeth isn’t attacking me yet she doesn’t know the whole story either, and I’m not at liberty to publish it here. You know it and I would hope that you keep in private. Play that banjo and live in peace and happiness. I have fond thoughts of those moments when you played that dysfunctional guitar.

@Elizabeth

I know that this may be off your original topic and I can appreciate your concerns. You are a genuine person who feels compassion for others who suffer from transsexualism and you called me on what appears to be my pity party. I assure you it is not. It is the long lasting effects of child abuse that one must deal with. Its like a loop that feeds the other. I have many rituals that I go through just to cope with life.

If I was a crippled individual you would see me limp, and someone who is emotionally scared as I am will manifest itself in other ways. “Damaged goods” may be a bit harsh but I was asked that by a therapist once: Why do I feel like your damaged goods? It was the beginning of my acceptance of what I was.

CasandraSpeaks gave me some great advice once and I have added that to my repertoire of defenses. It will be lifetime of effort, which only gets better with time. I’m sorry your 6’2” friend committed suicide. I’ve been witness to a few who ended up committing suicide. Your not alone in this, but keep in mind that if your friend looked like a linebacker and took the cowardly way out I looked like superman and fought my way to the results I have. Instead of surgery I utilized physical fitness technology and effort that would break most of you.

I will not always agree with your positions about others that mask themselves as transsexuals, yett feel your in your rights to criticize from the comfort of this blog. That being said we can depart from this subject and hit upon how such a culture war is going to manifest itself in the real world.

Did you watch the ABC story last night. I had dinner with Dr. Olsen last night and she did a spectacular job, but as always the news focused on a broad range of young gender different kids and one adult that transitioned at 37 years old and regretted it and transitioned back at 44 and married to a 27 year old. It was used by the story to tell a false story of recidivism to challenge the public perception of trans kids. THIS GUY WAS NOT A TRANS-KID!! F**king idiots. I get your angst.
I hope you can start a discussion about this:

http://www.calpernia.com/caution-gina-grahame/

http://www.ginagrahame.com/

http://www.transadvocate.com/to-calpernia-addams-and-andrea-james-trans-cyberbullying-is-never-ok.htm

All of this is going to harm a children’s charity called TYFA, just because an “out and proud” Calpernia Addams wishes to out a semi-stealth woman Gina Grahame. Setting aside who wins it will tarnish a transsexual children’s charities reputation over a petty squabble. This is the warning of the culture war that is going on if your attempt to file an opposition to Autumn’s petition to change her name and gender marker on her birth certificate. Beware the outcome may not be as you wish and could harm all who wish to change their birth record in the future.

BlackSwan

Not your friend said...

It seems that Sandeen has decided to publicly wine about those of us who challenge her female status.

http://lgbtweekly.com/2011/09/01/on-the-receiving-end-of-horizontal-violence/

In typical Sandeenista style it's not her fault,
We are all haters.

If you post a comment do not include any links it flags the comment for moderation.

Anonymous said...

obsess much?

Not your friend said...

"Anonymous said...

obsess much?"
Less than you do.

Anonymous said...

NYF.... How's life in Hillside?

Not your friend said...

"Anonymous said...

NYF.... How's life in Hillside?"

Hillside where is that?

That is nowhere around here.

Elizabeth said...

@Anon

Actually not your friend is not posting from any where near Hillside so yet again you are wrong. It is a common pattern in your life.

Elizabeth said...

@Deena

yada, yada, yada, yada, ya ya ya!!! If anyone does not meet Deena they are not a "real" person or transsexual and because Deena has met Black Swan it is somehow important. In this case Black Swan should have required a panty check from "Deena of Florida" the late transitioning expert on all things transsexual. How many years post operative are you Deena? How is the wife?

This is my blog and if you do not like what I say please do not read it and do not comment and make like your pal Dawn and STFU about things you know nothing about. 50+ years of excuses as a man does not give you a single clue about this.

People like you do more harm to young transsexuals than you can imagine. Well maybe I am being harsh there. You are a shining example of how not to live a life if by some miracle you actually ever were transsexual.

No go away and post on some transgender blog.

Elizabeth said...

To all

For some reason blogger classifies some posts as spam. I check when I come on and mark it as not spam so moderation is not on but the blogger Spam tracker has issues once in a while.

Anonymous said...

Deena is a late-in-life transitioner? No wonder she sounds like a man! I listened to her on Cristan Williams' blog and thought she sounded suspiciously like a gay man. Now I know why.

Gina

Elizabeth said...

@Black Swan

Kane is a complete nutcase and I do not understand why ABC put him on the special. He is the classic case of a transvestite that read a narrative and convinced doctors he was transsexual although he claims doctors and estrogen convinced him he was a transsexual. He basically decided he was transsexual.

I thought the show handled the "princess boy" scenario perfectly. As long as the child is happy then it can be worked out from there. The second child is a classic type VI transsexual and they handled that one correctly although i would have preferred the child to be recognized as a transsexual but that is nitpicking since everyone believes transgender means transsexual.

The Hispanic girl that went for FFS in mexico made a calculated decision to have FFS first and then keep selling her self to raise the money for SRS. Unfortunately I doubt she had a choice in the matter and my heart goes out to her but we do what we have to do to survive.

Kim Petras speaks for herself. Just a very beautiful young girl.

I thought Dr. Olsen was great. She had it dead on about the high suicide rates for trans kids and in this case I mean "all" trans kids even those just gender questioning. I am sure that surprises you but in reality I do not care much about mid to late transitioners. I only care about the kids.

My family in Massachusetts does support Children's in Boston through a family charitable trust but I have an issue with the fact Dr. Spack only treats kids to 18. I believe the LA decision to treat kids from 10-25 is the correct one. I would hope we can convince them to give kids the hormones so they can go through female or male puberty in conjunction with their blockers.

I know about the issue with Gina Grahame but I have stayed out of it. I think there is plenty of fault to go around for both sides. Gina should never have questioned Andrea James' working as a camera operator on a parody video. It was a bad video, IMHO, but did no harm to anyone in the TYFA even if Gina found it offensive which I probably did also. It was not aimed a kids and any parent or kid watching it has the problem. I am not a fan of censorship. I actually believe Autumn has every right to do and say what she wants and I have every right to disagree with her.

I personally believe Gina Grahame crossed a line by telling TYFA that Andrea was the photographer for which she was paid a salary. Calpernia and Andrea struck back but Gina was certainly not outed. Gina then dropped her financial support from work for TYFA which I find silly.

I agree the video is inappropriate for kids but heck most rap videos are as bad. I do not like Calpernia's siding with the TG moniker but it is her right. I know little of Andrea James other than she is a friend of a friend. I am not getting involved in a silly cat fight between two women.

Calpernia should pull Gina's legal name off the website and actually has several times by removing the page but Gina has not stopped. By the way if TransAdvocate is opposed to something I am usually not on their side so that was a poor selection.

Elizabeth said...

@Black Swan

Now for other comments. My friend did not take the cowardly way out. There was no FFS in 1971 because I would have paid for it for her. There was no way to change her barrel chest and massive hands and feet and thick muscled body and she was on hormones. I would have paid for everything but she was just a young girl who knew her family hated her, life had cheated her, mother nature had fucked her, and not even divine intervention was available with help.

She took what she felt was the only way out and I know how she felt. I tried suicide 6 times between 8 and 14. When you feel there is no hope and you are going to grow into a man the one thing you cannot let happen, there is only one alternative and death was certainly more appealing than man. My friend tried and tried but there were no blockers back then. She was doomed and I understood why she did it but we all cried for quite a while. She was not a coward just a realist.

Every transsexual had their fair share of psychological trauma. I was raped once by a man and there was one other attempt and that was not fun. Aversion therapy in a State Mentsl Hospital for over 6 weeks. What was done is now categorized as torture even by the loons that think torture works. Friends of mine had it worse than me although your physical challanges are unique.

Th reason I ended up in the Person Ovessey study was because Harry asked her to speak to me to make sure I was over all the trauma. Nothing they did or could have done could make me stop believing I was a girl because it was what I was.

You had physical issues but a beautiful face. Except for height you pass 100% and even at your height you could have continued to pass but you made your own choices. It is how you make a living and I assume you get paid well and good for you.

I criticize from the comfort of this blog because of privacy issues. I did my share publicly in 1971 and 1972 until I realized I would never be a normal girl until I just left and lived. I did that and it was the right choice for me. Now I am old and can be cranky when i want to be.

I know little about transitioning today for younger kids. The kids we help get the best psychiatrists and doctors we can find and are all classic type VI. They are the only ones we help although my heart does go out to any trans kid in the 10-25 age range. It is a horrible thing to be either transsexual or question whether you are a boy or girl at this age. Kids should get to be kids and have fun.

You can tell Dr. Olsen she is aces in my book. Personally for children I do not care if they use transsexual, transgender, or twit as long as they help the children. No child should ever suffer.

Deena said...

@ Elizabeth and the thread. I was discussing the Autumn situation with a friend. She is an attorney who lived in California at the time she had an orchi and on that basis subsequently got a court order changing her legal sex and then her drivers license. Subsequently she had a vaginoplasty which was not deemed SRS because she was legally female at the time and so there was no sex reassignment involved. I was a bit taken back when I learned this.

My friend went on to say that Autumn is now shining a spotlight on this issue and she shares my opinion that it may create a legislative backlash in California. That might have dire consequences for FTM individuals who can currently get a legal sex change after surgeries such as mastectomies. It would also impact MTF's who for whatever reasons cannot yet obtain SRS.

@ Autumn Sandeen - If you read this please consider the harm your publicity efforts might cause. You might become the California TG poster person in a way you won't enjoy.

Not your friend said...

Deena
Sandeen doesn't give a shit about anybody but Sandeen.
People who know Sandeen personally will tell you that.

What your friend did was fraud, as it didn't comply with ether the letter or the spirit of the law. Will this really cause a legislative backlash? Go back up in this thread and look for the bill that is in the legislature that would make it possible for any Tee-Gee to just say I want my birth sex changed to female or male..

Sandeen’s bullshit could actually accelerate this,

For for women born with a transsexual birth condition this is a loose, loose situation here is how.

We ignore Sandeen, Sandeen gets the Female on Sandeen’s birth certificate, no attention is brought to the fraud and the bill passes anyway. California just passed a bill requiring people who contract with babysitters to provide workmen’s comp insurance and provide for breaks and lunch periods. What do you think is going to happen to that stupid bill mentioned above?

If we make a big stink
Sandeen might not get Female on Sandeen’s birth certificate.
Sandeen makes a big stink about it, gets statewide attention and an effort is launched to put more pressure on the legislature, the bill passes.

Ether way someone needs to mount a court challenge, I think the bill is going to pass.

I’m all for fighting Sandeen on the grounds it’s fraud and should be dealt with as fraud.

Ether way I know here in California we are screwed. The Fake Female Act will be passed anyway.

Deena said...

If I were the judge I would take a different approach assuming I had read most of Autumn's very public statements. I would say ... you claim to have always been a woman and yet you are petitioning that you have now had surgery to alter your sexual characteristics to that of the opposite sex. That certainly must mean you have become the man you always wanted to be and since that is what your birth certificate currently reflects I see no reason to grant a change.

Yes I know that won't happen but it is funny to think about. If I could draw it would make a good cartoon.

Anonymous said...

@Elizabeth

Don’t be picking on Deena. You can take your pot shots at me--I‘m a much bigger target.

I told Dr. Olsen about your comments. She said, “Thank you so much.”

We are going to change the world--just watch us.

BlackSwan

Miz Know-It-All said...

@ Black Swan,
you said " Trust me I do the best I can with my lemons. However, there are no solutions only the hurting."
Do you really think so? What to know where I got the line, "get over it already?"
It was from not one but two women I know who lived through deprivations in WWII that I'm quite sure make anything you suffered pale in comparison... Things like watching your father and his brothers being shot in the yard, a grenade tossed into your family home and then, to listening to your mothers screams from being burned alive as you are raped... Or to watching your dog being butchered and eaten, mother and sisters raped as you hide in a ditch then fleeing with the clothes on your back. One of these women fled into the same Russian winter that claimed Hitlers Army and one in that same winter towards Frankfurt and sure starvation... I've heard tales about a mother and her children, all under ten digging into a found pile of frozen and throughly rotten potatoes in the faint hopes of finding anything to eat. Of them both walking upwards of a thousand miles and eating grass just to keep the hunger pains away... of seeing family members shot and butchered, of spending months and months on the road with no shelter from the weather as the other refugees beside them died, their corpses lying by the side of the road rotting...One of them got a slice of bread for Christmas and even as hungry as she was she took a month to eat it all as it was the first bread she had seen in a year! Both these women survived by random chance while most of their families died horribly! Both of them were raped, repeatedly and both of them at wars end came to this country with nothing but the clothes on their backs.

Yet both of them are light and bubbly women who having left unthinkable nightmares behind as they went on to build rich and full lives, raise children and then grand babies, and now, both of them are in the twilight of their lives their bodies harboring not only the aches and pains of life but also the added pains of those years of deprivation they endured yet they both of them take great pleasure in sitting in their gardens with the sun on their faces rejoicing in their "good fortune! In fact it took me decades to learn of their deprivations as neither of them see much value in talking about it!

So you want to know how to "get over it already?"

Do what they did... Stop picking at the wound! Stop feeling sorry for yourself! Rejoice in the things you have! Rejoice in the life you were given, Look to the gifts you received and stop lusting for what you didn't get! In other words, get on with your life because today may be all that you have!

That's it plain and simple... The only one who is hurting you now Black Swan is you and the only one who can stop it... is you... Or in other words as both Eva and Inga said to me on many an occasion when I had the audacity to whine about MY life?... "Get over it already!"

Deena said...

@ MKIA ... Nice story. My mother still has a monogrammed handkerchief that my father always wore in his coat pocket. It says ... I never look over my shoulder, I'm not going that way.

BS can speak for herself and I'm sure she will. I can testify that BS does not wallow in the past but speaks to these matters only to assist others who face hurdles. I admire her for that.

I would say more but I'm due at a party next door where about 40 Spanish/Cuban/Americans are roasting a pig. The sangria is flowing and I'm late. Life is good.

Anonymous said...

@Miz Know-It-All

Wow this sounds like one of those mountebanks and charlatans selling snake oil or a tonic to cure all ails.

They usually travel round in wooden horse drawn carts tented and sell their wares, “Step right up! Don’t be shy get your fresh bottle of GET OVER IT! The cure for all that ails you. Mom abandon’s you in a drug induced stupor, all you need to do is take a double dose. Father beats the hell out of you on a daily basis hell you’ll need a case! Lose your job. Aunt takes your trust fund--(Your SRS money) GET OVER IT will cure everything. Helps you to deny your emotions and forget the past--at least consciously. Impress all your friends at a funeral by not shedding a tear. Watch your world fall apart and just one sip of this super tonic and GET OVER IT will do the rest.”

To a passing crippled child, “Hey kiddo looking at all those over kids play and you want to play with them--GET OVER IT!”

To the daughter who just lost her dad in a war, “GET OVER IT.”

To the homeless person cold, hungry and needy, “GET OVER IT.”

To the 6’2” linebacker who is suffering from transsexualism who is contemplating suicide “GET OVER IT.” That will impress them at parties.

To the child who is watching her mother slowly die of AIDS, “GET OVER IT.”

To the pissed off blog poster who doesn’t like Autumn Sandeen’s petition for gender change with just a orchi, “GET OVER IT.”

To the NAZI prison guard who is questioning what he is doing in the death camps, “GET OVER IT.” The commandant orders then turns to the poor Jewish child in the camp and shots her sister in the head, with a venomous sneer looking right at that child, “GET OVER IT Juden your next!”

Sorry to be very harsh with my example but Oskar Schindler didn’t get over it--he did something about it didn’t he.

See where I’m going with this love. Expression is life; repression is suicide. Why does man suppress so much and become so unhealthy? So complacent and ineffective. This whole conversational thread is a huge complain with no real action. Where is it really going?

Because society teaches you to control, not to transform, and the way of transformation is totally different, it is not the way of control at all, it is just the opposite. I’ll let you stew in that for a moment.

BlackSwan

Not your friend said...

Black Swan
As for the thread you have no idea who may or may not be doing something about Sandeen and the Fraud Sandeen wants to committ.

As for getting over it don't let anybody get in the way of self pity or feeling sorry for yourself. I know a 6',2" women who has been living and working and is saving money for surgery. She began transition in her late 20s and has suffered a number of setbacks, she isn't sitting around feeling sorry for herself except for the ocasional complaint about her crappy job.
Your life is what you make of it.

Autumn is now feeling sorry for S/he self now and is getting the shit Autumn deserves for it.

Life isn't fair GET OVER IT GOD DAMNET.

Anonymous said...

So going by that logic, Sandeen had an orchi and now claims to be a woman....... so GET OVER IT!!!

Just sayin.
(\__/)
(=^.^=)
(")_(")

Anonymous said...

@NYF

In California you must file the petition with a declaration from the petitioner and the doctors declaration. If your filing just a gender marker change there is not requirement to publish, if with a name and gender change you mush publish the petition in a prominent newspaper. If the judge reviews the petition and sees a material element that doesn’t meet the threshold of what the law says is Sex Reassignment the judge has discretion and must decide without prejudice with respects to male of female gender reassignment. .

Elements of Fraud: A false representation of a matter of fact (or material fact)—whether by words or by conduct, by false or misleading allegations, or by concealment of what should have been disclosed—that deceives and is intended to deceive another so that the individual will act upon it to her or his legal injury.

If you disagree with the law that isn’t material fraud.

Is an F2M committing a fraud in your mind if he doesn’t have phalloplasty?

What has Autumn concealed from the court? That cannot be drawn out until her petition is actually filed. She hasn’t commit a fraud yet has she?

Who has been damaged by such an alleged fraud?

BlackSwan

Not your friend said...

I'll take these in reverse order
The state's credibility is damaged if it issues birth certificates that are incorrect. If a tranny petitions the court for a change in gender and still has a penis the tranny is defrauding the court according to the wording in the criteria for gender change.

An FTM who doesn't have phalloplasty still meets the criteria for gender change because of the standard of care, phalloplasty is largely not a successful genital reconstructive procedure.

I'm aware of the law in California I petitioned the court for a new birth certificate back in 85. The law hasn't changed much since then.

Anonymous said...

The state's credibility could be damaged? The state that in the past handed out driver licenses to illegal aliens? The state that is often called the granola state because it's chocked full of fruits and nuts? The state that recently elected Jerry Brown as it's governor after getting rid of him once before? That state?

I think you're a few decades too late to worry about California's credibility.

Anonymous said...

@NYF

I don't believe the SOC's are the law in California. They are medical suggestions. You still have not met the threshold of fraud yet. Is it still your contention that Autumn has committed a fraud? I would wait to see the petition first.

Furthermore, a man who still has a vagina can receive a new birth certificate in the eyes of the law in California is equivalent to a woman who still retains her penis. We have a bill that past, I believe in 2005, which prohibits gender discrimination in medical practice.

If Autumn uses that reasoning it meets the threshold of equity and balance.

I get your angst about it but not sure if you can argue that position in court--a counter position.

BlackSwan

Not your friend said...

Black Swan
When I refer to the standard of care I'm not talking about the WPATH SOC I am talking about the medical standard of care referring to the state of the art in reconstructive surgery.

I have been thinking about how to approach the Sandeen problem in a friend of the court brief.
There is plenty of evidence in Sandeen's writing enough to raise questions and that is all that need be done.

Not your friend said...

Anonymous
You might have something.
This is the state who jsut passed a law requiring someone contracting with a babysitter to make sure the babysitter is paid minimum wage, gets a break every 2 hours and workers comp insurance is paid for.

The same state who is going to pass a law allowing illegal allians to go to a state college on state grant money.

You might have something.

Elizabeth said...

@Black Swan

Birth certificates are a certificate defining the sex of the individual and not the gender of the individual despite what most people would like to believe. Sex characteristics define one's sex for women and that involves a vagina primarily. It is a little more difficult for FTM patients since construction of a penis that functions as one should is not a really viable option today. I do believe FTM's should be required to have a hysterectomy because men do not get pregnant but as long as they both follow the guidelines for what defines sex reassignment surgery then I have no issue.

Last time I checked having a penis does not qualify as MTF sex reassignment but I gather that is now under attack.

I lived in California for nearly 15 years and the weather was nice, the smog sucked, and there were more phonies than one can count. I guess one will now have to add "phony" females since it appears female will now be defined as someone with a dick but no balls and shortly probably someone with silicone/saline enhanced boobs and both a dick and balls since boobs might count as gender affirmation surgery.

I guess it makes sense in some ways. Sandeen has never let go of his maleness and I am sure he still likes to stand up to pee and considers urinals more efficient.

The only saving grace might be if Sandeen and his new "female" self get caught in a security screen at the airport and gets patted down "in full" by a female attendant. I bet that sausage of his will get her attention but then Sandeen is a female now or is the claim a woman or maybe Sandeen will qualify more as "it" although "it" like on the Munsters although that it is certainly far cuter than Sandeen.

Funny thing is Sandeen claimed she was harassed in the Navy because she was effeminate. I guess they redefined effeminate for Sandeen also.

Anonymous said...

@Elizabeth

I’ve heard the term “Fraud” thrown out 28 times in this thread and I have yet to hear any items of proof showing actual fraud.

When you proffer, “Sandeen has never let go of his maleness” because she retains a penis is cross compared on balance with an F2M who still retains her vagina. THAT IS WHAT THE COURT WILL REVIEW. Your opinion of weather Autumn has never let go of her maleness does not have horizontal equity to the F2M reality and therefore cannot be construed as law nor a fraudulent claim in her proposed petition for gender marker change on her birth certificate.

Neither is disagreeing with a law proposing a fraud to the court. BTW this is how the law evolves. The court must be open to new ideas and legal theories as science and reality dictate, even if it is unpopular or threatens a particular group who disagree with the new position.

Based on what I’m hearing here, using the tools of law; FIRAC method, Autumn should prevail.

FIRAC

Facts--Autumn has undergone a castration surgery (orchiectomy “Orchi“), she has been living as a female for 2+ years and has been under a doctors care. She has undergone estrogenic hormone therapy during this time, and has changed her legal identification on her drivers license (and other ID’s) she has lived full-time as a woman with a female identity during the last 2+ years. She has not shown any comorbidities and is thriving in her new life. Ms Sandeen submits this petition to change her name and gender marker on her birth certificate.

Issue--Would Autumn prevail? Yes or No.

Rule--What does the law say in California? I know that it allows M2F and F2M’s to change their birth certificates once irreversible surgery has been completed. I don’t know the actual codes or wording.

Analysis--Apply the facts to the law. If a Female to Male Transsexual can change his birth certificate while retaining a vagina than a Male to Female Transsexual should be able to change her birth certificate with the aforementioned reasoning.

Conclusion--Yes. Autumn is more than likely to prevail in her petition.

My personal opinion is set aside from this reasoning. This is what the law says in California.

BlackSwan

Not your friend said...

For those who don't have it here is the state of California guidelines.

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/certlic/birthdeathmar/Documents/Gender-Reassignment-PAMPHLET-%2811-10%29-MERGED.pdf

Anonymous said...

@Elizabeth

Now you have to review contrary authority.

FIRAC

Same Facts (except)--Autumn has undergone a castration surgery (orchiectomy “Orchi“) NOT SEX REASSIGNMENT SURGERY [emphasis mine], she has been living as a female for 2+ years and has been under a doctors care. She has undergone estrogenic hormone therapy during this time, and has changed her legal identification on her drivers license (and other ID’s) she has lived full-time as a woman with a female identity during the last 2+ years. She has not shown any comorbidities and is thriving in her new life. Ms Sandeen submits this petition to change her name and gender marker on her birth certificate.

Same Issue question--Would Autumn prevail? Yes or No.

Rule--What does the law say in California? It allows M2F and F2M’s to change their birth certificates once irreversible surgery has been completed. These “irreversible surgeries” are clearly defined by the law and it is strictly defined (strict legal constructions leave little wiggle room) as such… According to California law; M2F must under full SRS (vaginoplasty) and be on estrogen theory for two years--no exceptions. F2M must undergo hysterectomies, breast removal and be on estrogen theory for two years--no exceptions. Both M2F’s and F2M’s must show a living history in their proposed genders for at least one year. I don’t know the actual codes or wording. AB 2028 (September 2006 legislation) Gender Non-Discrimination in Medical Practice Act (for example) has a specific exclusion for transsexuals. Therefore doesn’t apply in equity to a petitioners desire to change their birth record. [What is the actual law?]

Analysis--Apply the facts to the law. If a Female to Male Transsexual doesn’t follow the strict construction of the law, as Autumn Sandeen has not done, in the facts of this case her petition to change her birth record should be denied because she has not met the minimal surgical standards as the law prescribes. He (you gotta say that to sway the judge--bigots love to do this) is not a she yet until he has SRS and the statute must the strictly construed, see Dewy Cheatem and Howe v. Linbacker Six-Foot-Two (2004) 4 Cal.Rptr. 345. (That’s a fake case law but I wanted to be humorous). Besides she sounds like a man, acts like a man, and really looks like a man in a dress. The public must be aware of these fake transsexuals running around with penis’s in the woman’s locker room. Woman are scared to death of this [site all kinds of examples of rape; shock and awe stuff].

Conclusion--No. Autumn is more than likely not to prevail for aforementioned reasons.

My personal opinion is set aside from this reasoning. This is what contrary authority looks like. You have to do this to see out absurd it is, but it’s the work lawyers do.

BlackSwan

Andrea Rosenfield said...

I'm on holiday with children around and don't have time to get into it today, but in brief, the statute is California Health and Safety Code section 103425.

http://law.justia.com/codes/california/2010/hsc/103425-103445.html

The language says:
"Whenever a person born in this state has undergone surgical
treatment for the purpose of altering his or her sexual
characteristics to those of the opposite sex, a new birth certificate
may be prepared..."

Have a great weekend everyone. Seeya later.

Anonymous said...

@Everyone

I’m being very generous in the Fact part. I’m sure an opposition would include all kind of fact about her mental health status in his(her) military service discharge or any other BS disparaging remarks to make the facts look unfavorable to her petition.

But this is just a blog posting Right?

But WAIT JUST A MINUTE. Autumn gets to write a reply to the opposition.

Something like this:

AB 2028 only applies to Medical Standards and Practice not Administrative Law, which governs records and standards and the California constitution applies in equity. Since F2M are allowed to change their birth record Autumn should be able to do the same and should prevail.

Now I’m not a lawyer just a lowly paralegal (small letters) but even if I disagree that Orchi doesn’t equal SRS I must follow the standards of law and practice sans my prejudice. Autumn has a right to file her petition and seek remedy of the court. SHE (capital letters) should prevail.

BlackSwan

Anonymous said...

@Andrea Rosenfield

Good point and thanks for the correct code.

I see a fight coming from all of this legal eagle stuff. Should be interesting to watch.

Not your friend said...

Black Swan please sight the sections of the California Constitution and the applicable court case that gives FTMs a pass on not appearing male.

In regards to Autumn
Sandeen has openly and publicly expressed intent to defraud the state under the current laws regarding changing the sex on a birth certificate.

AB 2028 doesn't shield someone who is using those confidential medical records to defraud the state.

There is plenty of evidence to prove intent in Autumn's

That would be my arguement.
Besides Anybody going into court with a friend of the court brief would be best served by leaving out everything except for the facts related to the order to change gender on Sandeen's BC.

Andrea Rosenfield said...

The kids are in a temporary food coma, so I've got a minute to add that the language in the current law was adopted during the 1976-77 legislative session and made effective in 1977 by the same Governor Jerry Brown we have now. Anyone attempting to divine legislative intent and the meaning of the language should look to that era.

Now I'm outies... have a great weekend, everyone.

Deena said...

@ the thread. My personal inclination would be that SRS should be required for an MTF change of birth certificate but that is not what California law has required for the last 34 years.

There are 2 requirements.

1. Surgery has been completed.
2. for the purpose of altering his or her sexual
characteristics to those of the opposite sex.

This allows a physician a rather broad latitude. It could mean FFS or Mastectomy or SRS or orchi or BA or hysterectomy or any number of other surgeries.

It is loose in my humble opinion but it is what it is. The court will defer to the physician. The law does not require specificity on what the surgical procedure was. There is no fraud when a petitioner requests the change and presents a letter from a licensed physician which includes the language "for the purpose of altering his or her sexual characteristics to those of the opposite sex".

Though you may disagree with Autumn as I do, Autumn will prevail assuming Autumn has the "magic language" in a letter from a licensed physician. Sad? Yes, but many before her have done the same.

The other reality that Autumn needs to digest is that documents do not change the hearts and minds of others. Autumn has created a web presence impossible to unwind. Autumn has established impeccable credentials. Autumn may wear the uniform of a female military member but anyone who has a lick of sense knows what is lurking beneath the skirt. Autumn has made a bed and must now sleep in it----forevermore.

That is the tragedy of someone with NPD.

Anonymous said...

I agree 100% with Deena. Sandeen isn't doing anything that others haven't done before.

With one exception... Sandeen can't seem to keep her big trap shut. When she was going to apply for a passport stating that she was 100% transitioned and thus a female, she blabbed about it to the whole freaking world! And now she is doing the same thing. It's almost as if she is asking for someone to stop her, like when someone threatens suicide as part of some silly little head game.

I bet Sandeen is laughing her butt off. All she has to do is claim that she's going to do something, and all of you get so utterly bent out of shape over it. Just look at this thread, 182 comments and it's all about Sandeen. Just keep feeding her ego, why don't ya?

Want to see Sandeen do something really freaking ridiculous? Try ignoring her. Don't write a single word about her. She'll go absolutely nuts seeking attention!

Not your friend said...

One of these days Sandeen will find someone who will stop Sandeen. When it happens it will be someone close to Sandeen who will see that Sandeen has gone too far.

Sorry I can't bring myself to call Sandeen "she."

Elizabeth said...

Deena only makes sense if Sandeen has in fact altered her sex characteristics to be that of a female. And just how has Sandeen done that? Removing one's balls does not qualify as altering his or her sexual characteristics to those of the opposite sex. All it means is Sandeen has become a male eunuch.

Of course I guess if you believe a penis qualifies as neoclit then Sandeen indeed does have female sex characteristics. Now you idiots are redefining what the sex characteristics of a female are but then that was the next step wasn't it.

Anonymous said...

get over it

Deena said...

I thought I was clear in stating that I disagreed with Autumn and her physician. But what I was trying to point out is simply that in California law for the last 34 years a licensed physician could provide a "magic words" letter based on a completed surgery and the judge would accept that as sufficient. The law is not specific on what surgeries qualify.

So actually Elizabeth I guess you are correct and I would like to see the law changed but not in the way you assume. I think it should require srs for an MTF perhaps somehow exempting certain high risk medical conditions. I'm not sure how to handle surgery tracked pre-ops which is a thorny issue taking into account rle and risks of social interactions as well as working while still having male identification papers. Someone wiser than me would have to craft parts of the law to handle that or we could just leave pre-op true transsexuals blowing in the wind.

What I definitely don't want to see is a DOMA type reaction to the borg by the conservative political forces in this country where states start codifying "no changes ever" to birth certificates and other state issued ID's. The very public antics of the "keep my penis and certify me as F" crowd terrifies me because it could set off a reactionary legislative wave. It is like poking an angry pit bull with a sharp stick and taunting it. My label for that is stupid.

Andrea Rosenfield said...

California will issue a driver's license with a changed sex marker at the beginning of transition, upon presentation of a physician's statement that the person is undergoing the sex change process. It's been that way for at least 20 years.

There is currently a standard DMV form (DL-329), for the purpose:
http://dmv.ca.gov/forms/dl/dl329.pdf

The new-name SS card and the new-name/sex Calif. DL is enough to obtain employment without "outing" one's self during RLT. A birth certificate is NOT necessary to get a job, and never has been.

See Federal Employment Eligibility Verification (form I-9) here:
http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf

Happy to help. Hope @thread have been having (US) or have had a great weekend.

Miz Know-It-All said...

Awwww you poor thing! Why you've got the weight of the whole world on those shoulders don't you? I mean as the ONLY person to suffer any sort of deprivation as a child who was transsexual and all I guess it came down to you to be our Atlas! Fitting no?

You know dear, it really is quite the pity you're not half as smart as you'd like to think you are.. Because, if you were, then you would have actually gotten it that the expression I used came not from me, but from two women who suffered far more than it seems you can comprehend in your present state! These two women had just a wee bit more than their trust fund taken. They had EVERYTHING possible that could be taken from them but their lives and the filthy rags that covered their backs... but for some reason, you dear, are stuck wallowing in your past hurts like a hog in shit but they... well they somehow got out there and had lives despite all this! So you poor suffering fool! As it seems you can't add two plus two, would you like it spelled out for you why they and many many others like them managed to "get over it" and you can't?

You've let what they did you as a child define who you are and they didn't! And neither did I, or Liz or any of a hundred other women who suffered terribly as children who were transsexual. So again, as it always does , it comes down to you... if you don't like it, then change it! Fire your jailer, open the cell door you guard morning noon and night and go get the hell on with your life... or not!... It's your's to do with as you wish, so if you want to keep right on playing the victim card it's your choice and frankly I don't give a shit one way or the other!

But keep this in mind! Just because we don't rend our garments and wail non stop doesn't mean we got off scot free, so please, stop annoying us with your repetitive one act drama! My life is too short to waste it on this another minute!
Good Day!

Andrea Rosenfield said...

@thread:

If any of you are actually serious about stopping this female-penis BC crap in California, now's the time.

Get your calls letters in opposition to AB-433 in to the Governor's office, like YESTERDAY, urging a VETO.

Contact info here:
http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php

As of today, 9/6/11, he hasn't signed that idiot thing yet. He'll probably try to pocket-pass it. He needs to know you're watching. California voters registered Democrat, and LGBTs, in particular.

Anonymous said...

As a California voter and taxpayer, I will be contacting Gov. Brown to express my support for AB-433. I will also be asking my friends and coworkers to do likewise.

Anonymous said...

My letter to Gov.Moonbeam…

Dear Governor Brown.

I am a Native Born Californian of Hispanic Heritage and a long time resident, (60+years), and Tax paying VOTER. I am also a very active member of my Church and I can tell you that I, together with my fellow parishioners are totally bewildered and frankly OUTRAGED at your seemingly tacit support of AB433 which specifically facilitates the changing of one’s Birth Certificate to reflect a change in SEX when in fact NO SUCH CHANGE HAS OCCURRED.

I realize that your “GAY LOBBY” has convinced our legislators that SEX and gender is the same thing, but all you need to do is check between your legs to understand that changing your GENDER…IE, wardrobe and lifestyle, is NOT the same as changing your morphological SEX.

Please take the time to reconsider your tacit support of this disingenuous bill, and avoid the wholesale abandonment by your loyal Judeo-Christian AND Hispanic voter base.

We need you to act NOW to veto the heinous bill which would allow MEN WITH PENISES into those areas reserved exclusively for women. EVEN my lesbian acquaintances are OUTRAGED. Without your VETO, this Bill will AUTOMATICALLY become law on or about Sept. 20th, 2011. I cannot believe that you want this as part of your legacy.

Sincerely,

Anna Xxxxxxxx

Andrea Rosenfield said...

Mine went out early this morning. Big rash of signings and vetoes today, but the bill's still sitting there according to the morning and afternoon legislative updates.

@Anonymous, thank you for participating in our tripartate form of government in accordance with the principles of our representative republic. I wish everyone would.

Anonymous said...

Contact info for our good Gov. Moonbeam...

http://gov.ca.gov/m_contact.php

Anne

Anonymous said...

Oh boy...

Will this conversation ever end?!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NCZgjlMXwo&feature=related

Hopefully very soon.

BlackSwan

Not your friend said...

No Black Swan it will never end, it will even go on into the next lifetime. :)

Deena said...

Oh wow, I just read the latest on PHB and was amazed to learn that not only is Autumn on 100% military disability but that this evidently also qualifies Autumn for Medicare. What floors me is that this person is a globe trotting activist who is drawing a disability pension, military medical coverage and Medicare. All these years I was stupid enough to think 100% military disability meant someone who couldn't work due to injuries suffered in war or other hazardous military assignments. Is this what it means to game the system or am I missing something?

Anonymous said...

Out beyond ideas of right doing and wrong doning, there is a field. I'll meet you there. -Rumi

Deena said...

When the soul lies down in that grass
the world is too full to talk about.

Not your friend said...

Deena Sandeen is 100% mentally disabled.
Like many have been telling you s/he is a FRUITCAKE.

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