Tuesday, August 28, 2012

Do you Identify as Transgender??

If you identify as transgender then do not be offended if we who were born transsexual call you a transvestite, cross-dresser, or drag queen or gender whatever because the odds say you are. Since there are so few truly born transsexual which is around 1 in 10,000, although many more would like to claim this status, it means there are at most 32000 transsexuals in the US based on population with a bias towards MTF that is significant. Since the transgendered seem to be 0.3% of population  based on stats provided by the Williams Institute at the UCLA School of Law that means about 1 million Americans are transvestites, crossdressers, and others categorized under the transgender umbrella.

So if you identify as transgender John Q Public has every right to assume you are NOT transsexual and suffer from a fetish or gender issue NOT related to being born transsexual. Part of the transgender mantra is the attempt to confuse the mainstream world into believing they are the same but we all know that is not true. We seek "completeness" and they seek "pleasure" in their clothes and outings en femme.

I find it hilarious when I read someone scream about some non-supporter claim transgender laws are for transvestites. The simple truth is they are correct based purely on the numbers.  Numbers do not lie and this is a classic case of it.  This is not a set of statistics skewed by arbitrary statistical analysis but simply clear and simple numbers.

It is why those of us born transsexual that believe we should not be under the Transgender Umbrella have a legitimate claim. We are numbers wise insignificant to the transgender movement so why do they get so angry when we do not want to be part of it? The reason is simple. They need transsexuals because they want to confuse the public into believing it is all about those of us that so desperately need to be physically complete as women or men that we will go through anything to get their.  It is why they pounce on ever transsexual child and relabel them transgender.  It is why they conned the fools at GLAAD and the GLB into falsely believing the correct term is transgender and not transsexual.  It is why they want to remove the use of tranny and claim transsexual is linked to she males and prostitution when in point of fact very few of these people are truly transsexual.

So if you identify as Transgender you need to accept the fact that sooner or later people will learn the truth and you will be labeled a transvestite or crossdresser because those on the right have begun to see the difference and that does not bode well for all of us because the shit that might come could be ugly.

Their are sisters if mine that were truly born transsexual like the woman that writes the Women Born Transsexual Blog that have bitten into the poisoned transgender apple and become seduced by the lies. Suzan does not even believe transvestites and crossdressers are part of the transgender movement which should prove how poisonous those in the transgender movement are.

So all of you transsexuals under the transgender umbrella and all of you born transgender that support the transvestites and crossdressers as equals need to realize your new bed is lined with snakes and reptiles that would eat their young to make their fetish legitimate and they will not hesitate for one second to crush ever person with a transsexual history in order to legitimize their fantasy and pleasure.

So if you are a woman born transsexual teaching be ready to be asked what it feels like to be a transvestite if your past is known.  The same goes for everyone out and proud about being transgender but then based purely on the numbers I guess they are correct and you were not born transsexual but are simply another form of fetishism under the transgender banner.

I hope it feels nice to be considered a transvestite because that is what will eventually happen if they get their way.


Anonymous said...

Well, then, if that's the dynamic that's about to overwhelm us, there's certainly a lot to be said for stealth! (I do so **hate** that word, but, still, it's the one that everyone seems to understand).

-- just another old elfchick, wending her anonymous way through life

Anonymous said...

Stealth has always been the proper path. Those who disagree are insecure or so butt ugly they cannot pass for human, let alone female.

Anonymous said...

In answer to the question posed. NO. Never have. Never will.

Van Buren said...

"Stealth has always been the proper path. Those who disagree are insecure or so butt ugly they cannot pass for human, let alone female"

I personally think that to be a very narrow minded comment from someone who probably is not 100% secure and clear in and about themselves and hence, in my opinion, a hypocrite.

For a start, each person’s life is their own and to imply that there is one universal path that is correct for everyone, and then cast unfounded judgment on those who do not follow that exact path or mindset, I personally find to be bigoted, myopic, presumptuous, insecure, probably highly uneducated and inexperienced.

Secondly, "stealth" (the only path as you put it) implies one has something to hide, that they ARE in fact a man possibly?

I personally, have nothing to hide. I am NOT "stealth" (so I guess your statement was directed at me and those like me) I am a woman and I always have been. nothing to hide and nothing more need be said. (so quite simply, I just DON'T)

As for Liz's post; I agree with the principle of what she writes, however, I can also understand how some people end up with the perspective they have and why they take their chosen stance on the issues that they do (Suzan for instance).

Our life and our experiences shape us mentally as we develop and progress into old age.

Some people manage to handle certain aspects and experiences of life better than others, and some people also have to endure certain things (and the mental impression they leave) that others don't have to.

I don't agree with her attitudes and opinions on most things, I think they most often, are (self-serving and) counterproductive to the needs and goals of most Transsexual born females, however, looking at her life as she recounts it, I can understand why she feels the way she does.

Please choose a name so we can identify you in discussion.

Anonymous said...

Van Buren
You are right that is a very narrow minded comment but it is coming from someone who is sick to death of the Tee-Gees hijacking our good name and narrative. At what point do you stop going along with and stand against the hijacking of the transsexual narrative and birth condition by a bunch of transvestites who wish to destroy the differences between men and women and colonize our spaces.

So I stand by those words, I posted them.We got to this place by being tolerant to those who are not tolerant of us.


Van Buren said...

I agree with what (in essence) you were TRYING to say, and I personally understood your point.

The first step towards separating ourselves from The TG social movement is being CLEAR and CONCISE with what we say about who we are and HOW we say it.

I personally consider the term "stealth" to be based in the transgender mindset/way of thinking, I DON'T consider it to be a part of a transsexual narrative (IMO, it simply literally CANNOT be applied to a transsexual) so by using the term for convenience, as I assume/hope you and "elfchick" have done, we are actually helping TG's steal and conflate our narrative, simply because we are to friggin' lazy to be clear about what we are trying to say.

And their ability to steal and conflate is part of the reason so many young, scared, and unsupported transsexuals are easily sold on the TG doctrine.

I agree that non-disclosure is the only true option for a transsexual, however that does not always come down to a simple choice.

When a person is in their teens or twenties and their whole family deserts them because they need to change sex, that is a VERY difficult situation (as you may or may not know). Not many people (at that age) have the personal strength to endure a proper "transition" 100% alone without ANY emotional or financial support, which leads them to go to the only place and people that appear to be currently available.


They don't realise at the time (due to how successfully TG has managed to conflate itself with TS),that there is NO support there (or at least not the kind they truly need), and they also don't realise that associating with that group (even for the shortest time) often means they lose the option to live quietly in later life.

If we want things to change and we want to make a difference, then the very first step is for us to think through what we say and write BEFORE we say it and then be as clear as we possibly can about whatever point we are trying to make. Only then will the differences start to become more apparent, and only then will people learn about themselves that they are NOT transgender and that they can live their lives differently if they chose.

As for those who willingly chose to identify as transgender, I'd say in principle that the statement you made is largely accurate. What that ALSO means is that they are too lazy or uninclined to do the work needed to blend in, and if that is the case then they aren't TS anyway (IMO) and they are right to identify as they have.

Anonymous said...

I forgot to sign: "NO. Never have."

- an old aunty

Anonymous said...

I find this "pass" or "not pass" (ugly/failure) narrative the cornerstone of the true transsexual dogma/prejudice of legitamacy. It contradicts any integrity you attemt to claim. Before you can create a cogent position that distinguishes the TG from the TS a bit of house cleaning needs to be engaged in. I don't identify as either TS or TG although I have had SRS. I don't engage in your petty politics. I used the TG transition model for help and transitioned with what help they provided then moved on to normal womanhood. Just found this site; disgusting bigotry and elitism from some who post here. I pass and transitioned successfully without any TS identified help. Those who claim stealth help no one.


Stephanie said...

I have a question.
If all transsexuals should go stealth, how will the public understand the difference between Transsexuals and the Transgendered?
And please. Let's assume that both would "pass". (such an awful word)

Anonymous said...

There is no doubt in my mind that the term "Transgender" as it is currently used was foisted upon the world for the sole purpose of making transvestism palatable to the general public and used the already acceptable and understood condition "Transsexualism" to make that possible. The term was presented to media as the "politically correct" term to use in reference to those who "changed sex" Just as an incidental point we all know it is impossible to change sex don't we! What is possible is to confirm what is already present but may be hidden. This is why you see such tragic visions of failed femininity decorating the media. Last weekend I went to visit one of the local "Historic Towns". They have street markets and most of the Hotels have live music. It's a lovely day out. Walking towards us was what I can only describe as a "Drag Queen" artificial flower in their hair short tight fitting dress 4" heels and a huge head of hair. Rather too large breast implants. The group in front of us gasped "That's a guy!" I felt sorry for them because the vision of loveliness obviously overheard the comment. We continued on our way to the Hotel we planned to have lunch.
Now reading the comments here I am reminded that in that short recounting of an otherwise insignificant event is the crux of what Liz is talking about here and your subsequent comments are skirting around. The chosen mode of dress by the person on Sunday was to attract attention and to be seen and noticed. Most women do not dress like that on a Sunday afternoon strolling through a craft market. Our subject in this story is a "Cargo Cult"


Elizabeth said...


What TG transition model was that? Transvestism? Big oversized boobs to fit the male ideal??

Those who are stealth, I prefer quiet, help themselves because it is what they want you delusional dipshit.

Anonymous said...

Van Buren
I use the term stealth as a matter of sloppy convenience. The term is used to replace " my medical history and many other aspects of my life are nobody's damned business" I don't street preach any TG / TS propaganda, I live my life.

As for you fig,
We have crossed paths before, once an autogynophile always a autogynophile.

I could care less if my argument seems cogent or rational to you.
Your Tee-Gee friends are a thorn in my backside and the backside of every post-corrected man and woman on the planet.

Anonymous said...

I would like to bring up an excellent point that was raised by VanBuren and is in danger of being lost in a growing cacophony of TVs claiming and shouting and demanding that society accept that Transvestites, (TV's) are actually women.

Van Buren asserts that, "I DON'T consider it, {the term 'stealth'} to be a part of a transsexual narrative (IMO, it simply literally CANNOT be applied to a transsexual) so by using the term for convenience, as I assume/hope you and "elfchick" have done, we are actually helping TG's steal and conflate our narrative, simply because we are to friggin' lazy to be clear about what we are trying to say.

And their ability to steal and conflate is part of the reason so many young, scared, and unsupported transsexuals are easily sold on the TG doctrine."

IMO, what this aging population of Tv's, TG's, CD's and the entire bunch of gender bending, or gender denying populist egalitarians has done, is to form a politicl action gruop for THEIR own selfish benefit.

They demand the right to dress, act, and GO anywhere they want because they claim "equality"/equivalency with women. When that argument fails, they resort too deconstructing women and claiming thta women are just like men except they happen to wear dresses so why can't they?

I do agree that this all out assault on women is based on the TV's need to steal the TS "narrative" in order to acquire the hard won understanding accorded to those few women who needed medical treatment to correct a life threatening birth defect.

The distinction is vital to those young confused women who were born trans-sexed. They need to understand that the solution to their 'problems' lies not in social acceptance of their transgenderism,but in a simple, proven medical cure.

And that medical treatment is nobody's business but their own.


Van Buren said...

I understand you use it as sloppy convinience (and I actually stated that in my previous comment) and that you have a right to privacy, and I wouldn't suggest anyone give that up, but think about it, you use a term based in transgender doctrine and you say you are (or were) a transsexual?..

open the door and invite them right on in?....

and why? 'cause its easier than being clear in what you say and write and explaining the differences and truth about who you/we are, our lives and how we live.

you can't vote for someone and then complain about them getting elected.

These blogs are one of the only places we can share our stories and opinions without having to surrender our lives and you won't even make an effort here?

if that's the case then maybe you should quit your bitching.

did you happen to read what you wrote?

I find this "pass" or "not pass" (ugly/failure) narrative the cornerstone of the true transsexual dogma/prejudice of legitamacy.- Fig

I pass and transitioned successfully-Fig

So, let me see if I have you correct, "passing" is irrelevant, but you're legitimate as something because you do "pass"?....

that my friends, is commonly known as a Hypocrite

Anonymous said...


An anonymous elfchick here, noting once again that I really **do** loathe the word 'stealth' because of its implication that simply getting on with life is, in some wise, cheating.

Mind'ee, I'm of the school of thought that reckons that that one really ought to cheat creepy stalkers of any opportunity to perform their harassment upon oneself.

The media's fascination with TV/TG/T-whatever is awful and relentless. Of course, I'm probably singing to the choir here on that point, yes?

From context, I imagine that I'm a bit younger than many of the posters here, having only taken my metaphorical overseas holiday in the summer of '78. I understand that we're vastly outnumbered by all the TV/TG/T-whozises out there, and that they're the ones driving the open debate before the media. To my eyes, at least, that's good for us all, because it does tend to keep the creepy stalkazoids looking elesewhere for people to harass.

Apologies for pre-morning-coffee incoherence...

... an elfchick, who's been 'getting on with life' for rather a long time

Anonymous said...

looks at the entire thread and stares


I don't care about stealth, not stealth, transsexual, transgender and all of that stuff. I really don't care if you call it a disorder of the 45th chromosome or anything like that. All I care about is getting the surgery and living a normal life building meaningful things as a normal 20-something girl away from any and all drama and madness. Everything else is just plain semantics.

Elizabeth has provided quite a good argument over here which is at its core a statement of fact. (the best argument isn't an argument. It's a fact. You can't argue against facts now can you?) I have reservations with being called transgender because of the numbers. About 3% of the transgender umbrella can be considered to be like me, the rest 97% are something else. Something different. Not that it's good or bad, it's just that I think it's splitting hairs to associate what I have with what they are. It just doesn't make any rational sense. Would you associate someone who has acute bronchospasms upon eating nuts with someone who has chronic bronchitis? No, right? They are totally different conditions requiring different research and treatment approaches. Then why does it make any rational sense to equate what I have with whatever most of the transgender are afflicted with?

Numbers don't lie. Humans do. It's as easy as that. (which reminds me I've got to order that T-Shirt...)

Anonymous said...

re: "Meh"...

right on!

I had only one intention in mind when I flew overseas for my pysch interview and surgery, and that was to simply get on with life.

At the age of 18, I had no idea what I would do after that summer (other than, presumably, to marry my boyfriend), but as it turned out, it was all good anyway.

And when that T-shirt comes out? Get me on the list, please.... ^_^

/an elfchick, plain and simple

Van Buren said...


Now we're getting somewhere!!

You couldn't POSSIBLY have done this in 78?... at the age of 18!...
Having had to FLY OVERSEAS! to do it?...

surely NOT!!!

Heck! I've heard heaps of transGENDER people in their 50s and 60s say that they always knew they were female, but they HAD to hide it, they were FORCED to marry a woman and father children because back then it was IMPOSSIBLE, there was NO information!!!

(presumably they looked? but then, maybe it was just that the "how to guide" for becoming a woman, that can be found everywhere you look these days, wasn't thrust right under their noses to give them new ideas about their favorite kink)

Either way though, my hat is certainly off to you, that's a tall order (especially if you did it without your family).

Oh, and (if you'd rather not say, I understand completely but) did you end up marrying him?

Anonymous said...

...an elfchick here, sitting down with a cup of coffee before getting away to work...

Yes, I **was** young at the time, and had a right dickens of a time convincing my first gatekeeper, who was an agent of the State as t'were (he worked for a government-funded hospital) and who could only offer me a nihil obstat to my further efforts as being, when I started out, a newly-emancipated minor who derived most of her daily meals from big-city dumpster-diving.

Long story short, I was able to parlay that rather non-committal letter (literally as well as figuratively) into a series of appointments out-of-country. The fun part lay in figuring out how to acquire a round-trip aircraft ticket for that journey, a rather harder bar to surmount than arranging contingent plans for surgery, as at the time I had no passport and my country had no provision for emancipated minors to acquire a passport.

But, but, but, when there's a will (and where there's intense self-understanding of one's circumstances) there are always several ways to accomplish what one require to accomplish.

Of course there was a fair bit of information out there. the 1970s were not the 1950s, and there were good card-catalogues in the local college libraries, and various citation indices, and one could, if one were reasonably-literate, go fossick around and find out what one needed to know. It was not rocket science, after all.

I did indeed marry my boyfriend; we lasted three years and a few weeks beyond, as he really did love his motorcycle more than he loved me, and I found the dissassembly of motorcycle engines on our kitchen table rather off-putting. That, and finally reaching a state of compassion fatigue as I kept having to go see what had become of him after yet another ambulance ride to the hospital consequent upon some form of crash, usually related to the conjoint factors of alcohol and recklessness.

In the end, he remarried. I remarried. We're cordially-distant, to the extent that I would probably go visit him in hopsital if he ever took seriously-ill, but I would not expect to be invited to the wedding-parties of the children he eventually sired.

Back to your comment about TG-oid people lacking a 'how-to' guide. There was always Richard von Krafft-Ebing's book, Psychopathia Sexualis, where all the 'meaty' passages were written in Latin. That would have served as a 'go-to' for cross-dressers and others who enjoyed various odd paraphiliae.

Closer to our own circumstance, as I recall, there was amongst well-read medical practitioners already a good familiarity with transsexuality. If **I** could find the English, French and German literature comprehensible, I have no doubt that practitioners of the day could, too. The fellow who gave me the nihil obstat tried very hard to dissaude me, up unto the point that he and I came to an aggorniamento that the State was not going to pay for my subsequent adventures. Once I was clearly established to be staying off his budget-sheet, it was no risk to his career to refer me onwards and out-of-country.

The rest is, largely, happy and unremarkable history, which I do reckon as being a 'cure' of whatever was wrong with me at the time. I kept none of my medical papers, nor any other documents, from that time, on the general principle that house-cleaning never hurts. I am curious as to whether that practice of 'house-cleaning' after the fact is characteristic Type VI behaviour; I don't know anywhere else to raise that question, as it's not as if we all sit down and take coffee together on Wednesday mornings.

Apologies for a long and rambling reply: clearly there is such a thing as 'too much coffee'.

-- a happy elfchick --

Oh, postscript of sorts:

I haven't signed-up for a blogging account because I really don't want my racontage of ancient histories to come back and haunt me over the Internet, where (as we all know) every word remains in currency forever and a day.

Anonymous said...

"I am curious as to whether that practice of 'house-cleaning' after the fact is characteristic Type VI behaviour?" ~elfchick

It is my experience that it was. I was still in my 20's, and well into my first marriage when I ran across an old photo album with pictures of me during my college days, on my first European vacation.

I found those old pictures so odd because while I knew those images were in fact of me and my friend, I just could not 'find' or recognize myself in those old photos.

And yes, despite being in a beautiful leather album that I had bought in Spain, I tossed them.

As for medical papers....what medical papers? You mean they actually kept records in those days? I would not know even where to begin to look.

As for there being a complete dearth of information, BULLOCKS!!! It was there if you just took the effort to seek it out. As elfchick notes, the doctors of those days did know quite a bit more than is so falsely represented by those excuse mongering, aging TG apologists seeking a story to cover their own shame, fears or inadequacies.

We did what we did anyway we could because we had to. We had no other viable choice.


Van Buren said...

I suspect it IS very much a characteristic of RD transsexual born women.

Sadly though, the extent to which it can be done now (in the personal records sense at least) has been extremely limited.

In every way EXCEPT how we view ourselves personally and (hopefully) the life we live, Transsexual born females are included in "transgender" by force, and I for one think it's a F**KING disgrace.

I am a rather quiet and reserved (and I would consider myself gentle) woman mostly, but just thinking about it is enough to make me want to go on a rampage at every TG support group meeting I can find and then curl up in a ball somewhere and cry. (and as Liz’s post says, if they happen to be TS and they include themselves in Transgender, for whatever reason [and I am more understanding than most], then they can go too, they deserve what they get as far as I’m concerned)

I suspect however, that like just about everyone else here, you’d already be aware of all this though, so I’m sorry if it seems irrelevant or that I’m losing/lost my composure.

These are the very reasons I think it so important that anything we say or write or do is as clear and concise as we can make it. I/we (I don’t want to include anyone who themselves would prefer not to be included) don’t have many tools we can use to fight back and preserve what little we have left and that may not be such a big deal for those who are long past treatment and are largely unaffected by the current systems, but it is most certainly a big deal to me and it will be for those who need personal peace in the future.

With regards to your boyfriend, I’m sorry to hear it didn’t work out (I hope/gather that was for the best though), aside from the crashing and the drinking, he sounds like he could have been my kinda guy.

Anonymous said...

I agree with you for the most part. I am myself a fetishist in a community also blighted by the transgender presence. The relationship between feminization fetishism and transgenderism can be quite complicated. Quite often a feminization fetishist has a confusing partially recognisable arousal-mediated idealized affinity with femininity, which itself will often potentially get bound up psychologically and ideologically from as early as childhood. The fetish is extremely counterintuitive, whereby those who also profess a transgender identity may have invested in such, or are mistaken or delusional.

From what I gather here it doesn't seem clear.. So the date one chooses to alter their body somehow has something to do with the authenticity of the presupposed gender of one's psyche, which is itself supposed to somehow be self-evident?